De Ligt | €45+5m agreement reached pending medical | Signed!

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This is one of the weirdest threads on caf.
It's almost crazy all the tangents people are taken.
Doesn't really matter who is better out of De Ligt or Martinez really. The only way you could give a fair comparison is when they're playing together.

Many don't want him because he doesn't start for Holland are probably the same people who want Branthwaite, who didn't get picked in a mediocre England defence.
Many don't want him as he's not a starter for Bayern, also not true.

It's weird on so many levels. If we were never linked with him, but Arsenal instead, fans would be going crazy.
On the same note, so many people wanted Calafiori after one decent season, and 99% of them wouldn't have even heard of him before the Euros
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Pep about Maguire:
"He's strong in the air, good with the ball, the build-up, he drives with the ball, he's fast, so fast. He has all the qualities. Congratulations to United for this signature."
Lying bastard.
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Yea. I mentioned this exact same thing previously but Pep says some BS in media. If any one has access to Amazon's All or Nothing series, please go and watch City's.

In one of episodes during their half time team talk against Leicester he clearly says to De Bruyne "that guy is not fast" while pointing towards Maguire on the tactics board. He knew what he was doing in that press conference.
 
FortunaUtd said:
We are a funny bunch. We have no problem forking out 60m pounds or more for teenagers from smaller clubs with no experience or achievements, but when it buys you the entire right side of Bayern's defense, two top players in their prime, all of a sudden we get all stingy
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Wages.
 
Weird that this has dragged on for so long when the player wants to join and Bayern want to sell. I'm assuming they think we haven't really changed and if they drag it out they can extract a ridiculous sum from us.
 
It's weird people keep saying De Ligt is worth every penny of his wages - literally, evidently he isn't, as two clubs are moving him on because of his wages.
 
Blood Mage said:
Weird that this has dragged on for so long when the player wants to join and Bayern want to sell. I'm assuming they think we haven't really changed and if they drag it out they can extract a ridiculous sum from us.
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There was a story in a tweet along last week about how the person in charge at Bayern perhaps overestimated their own hand and excepted to get 65m€ for De Ligt as per value on Transfermarkt.
 
Fortitude said:
It's weird people keep saying De Ligt is worth every penny of his wages - literally, evidently he isn't, as two clubs are moving him on because of his wages.
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That’s literally not true though and has been debunked on every single page of this fecking thread.
Juve have gone on record that they desperately wanted to keep him, but he refused their contract offer with one year remaining and they felt they had no choice but to cash in.
 
Blood Mage said:
Weird that this has dragged on for so long when the player wants to join and Bayern want to sell. I'm assuming they think we haven't really changed and if they drag it out they can extract a ridiculous sum from us.
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Problem is we need to sell as well before more incomings.

Pretty certain things will move quickly with the deals already lined up once we have a bit more money and wage space to work with
 
Rolaholic said:
Problem is we need to sell as well before more incomings.

Pretty certain things will move quickly with the deals already lined up once we have a bit more money and wage space to work with
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Ideally we should just be paying maybe 10m or, at most, 20m net on this signing. The players we spent internally generated resources on, are Zirkee and Yoro. We need our Transfer Fee Account (my own creation) to slowly return to sustainability over the next few years and that means missing out on a few players, unfortunately.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
That’s literally not true though and has been debunked on every single page of this fecking thread.
Juve have gone on record that they desperately wanted to keep him, but he refused their contract offer with one year remaining and they felt they had no choice but to cash in.
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It doesn't matter though does it. De Ligt isn't flavour of the month
 
mu4c_20le said:
Martinez was one of the best defenders in the league last year. To say De Ligt is better than him would put him up amongst the likes of VVD.
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I said that they are DIFFERENT and then I went on to compare the two.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Juve have gone on record that they desperately wanted to keep him, but he refused their contract offer with one year remaining and they felt they had no choice but to cash in.
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Didn't he have 2 years left when he went to Bayern? Doesn't really change the point, but as far as I see he came in 2019, left in 2022 and had 5 year contract at Juve.
 
kaku06 said:
You couldn’t be more clearer in your first post. How did he think that you said De ligt was better?:lol:
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I feel that some people are obsessed with this player A vs Player B nonsense. In reality two players can be totally different from one another despite playing in the same position. That makes any comparison extremely difficult and equally redundant. Vidic vs Rio, Carrick vs Keane or Park vs Nani are classic examples of what I am saying. They are players who have a totally different approach to the game despite playing in a similar role. What matters in football is balance. If you have a Rio then the best course of action for a manager would be to partner him with a Vidic (or viceversa). If you've got a Nani then unless you've got an Ince and a Keane in CM then its ideal to have a Park on the other side. Carrick has a different skillset to that of Roy Keane and therefore need to be surrounded with different type of players. No player is an island who can single handedly win matches on his own. The closest we had to that was a certain Diego Armando Maradona at Napoli but even he was surrounded by some decent players who suited his style

De Ligt will excel in certain areas of the game while Martinez will excel in others. I do have my concern about the balance between the two (ex lack of pace and both are too aggressive in their style). However I trust ETH to know them enough to get the best out of them. I have an idea or two how it could work but that would be controversial
 
devilish said:
I said that they are DIFFERENT and then I went on to compare the two.
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Your post was directed at those who were comparing them. I was pointing out that, whoever first claimed De Ligt was better than Martinez, would also be claiming he's as good as VVD. Even if they are stylistically different, they play the same position, and could easily be compared at least in terms of tiers.

But hey, on the positive side, if that poster was right, we'll soon have the best defense in the world!
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
That’s literally not true though and has been debunked on every single page of this fecking thread.
Juve have gone on record that they desperately wanted to keep him, but he refused their contract offer with one year remaining and they felt they had no choice but to cash in.
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If Juve wanted to keep him, they would have. They are Juventus, about the most crooked there used to be before the state clubs dwarfed them. They would have made it workable if they deemed him worth the outlay. I mean, come on.
 
Fortitude said:
If Juve wanted to keep him, they would have. They are Juventus, about the most crooked there used to be before the state clubs dwarfed them. They would have made it workable if they deemed him worth the outlay. I mean, come on.
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Maybe. But similar to at Bayern, when you go back and read about it, their most engaged fans online really wanted to keep him.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Your post was directed at those who were comparing them. I was pointing out that, whoever first claimed De Ligt was better than Martinez, would also be claiming he's as good as VVD. Even if they are stylistically different, they play the same position, and could easily be compared at least in terms of tiers.

But hey, on the positive side, if that poster was right, we'll soon have the best defense in the world!
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They are different type of players.
 
andersj said:
Maybe. But similar to at Bayern, when you go back and read about it, their most engaged fans online really wanted to keep him.
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But something doesn’t add up; no club relinquishes elite defenders they want to keep, even if other players had to be sold to pay their star turn, they would do it.

What’s essentially being said is neither club see him as worthy of the wage and so “reluctantly” move him on.
 
Fortitude said:
If Juve wanted to keep him, they would have. They are Juventus, about the most crooked there used to be before the state clubs dwarfed them. They would have made it workable if they deemed him worth the outlay. I mean, come on.
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He wanted to leave and they wanted him out. The issue was his huge salary. Mino did him a huge disservice.by arranging him such huge salary
 
devilish said:
He wanted to leave and they wanted him out. The issue was his huge salary. Mino did him a huge disservice.by arranging him such huge salary
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Leaving Ajax he looked like the next great one and he and De Jong both got premium rate for that. Unfortunately, neither lived up to their billing and their clubs try to offload them when they can.

I get that they were calculated gambles, but still, a spade should be called a spade. I have my doubts about him, especially in the PL, but I sure hope I’m wrong.
 
Rojofiam said:
If Maguire went to City in 2019, 5 years later I can guarantee that any suggestion that he isn't a top 5 centre half in the world would be laughed at.

@Leethal has a point
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Pep would have sold him by then, but he would be overrated like he is now. Maguire has a good PR team and managed to convince people criticism for his poor games is bullying.
 
Fortitude said:
Leaving Ajax he looked like the next great one and he and De Jong both got premium rate for that. Unfortunately, neither lived up to their billing and their clubs try to offload them when they can.

I get that they were calculated gambles, but still, a spade should be called a spade. I have my doubts about him, especially in the PL, but I sure hope I’m wrong.
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Which kind of spade is De Ligt? A club?

If you should call De Ligt what he was to Juventus at the time he left to Bayern, it would probably be ‘the most expensive CB in the universe who is not (yet) the best CB in the universe, who declines signing and extension, posing a threat of huge money loss, and who is one of our most saleable assets in a post-covid time of economical dearth’. But that’s a bit long. Spade has the advantage of being shorter.
 
Grande said:
Which kind of spade is De Ligt? A club?

If you should call De Ligt what he was to Juventus at the time he left to Bayern, it would probably be ‘the most expensive CB in the universe who is not (yet) the best CB in the universe, who declines signing and extension, posing a threat of huge money loss, and who is one of our most saleable assets in a post-covid time of economical dearth’. But that’s a bit long. Spade has the advantage of being shorter.
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Cute, but it doesn't change anything. Guy is being carted around by clubs who so wish they could keep him and are sad to see him go. Naturally.

I hope we don't become the third who feel terribly sad he's going yet are open to offers.

I really do.
 
Will he improve our team ? Yes

Will we get better defender for 40m ? No

Not sure what you people are discussing so much. This deal is as no brainer as it can be
 
Fortitude said:
Cute, but it doesn't change anything. Guy is being carted around by clubs who so wish they could keep him and are sad to see him go. Naturally.

I hope we don't become the third who feel terribly sad he's going yet are open to offers.

I really do.
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None of what we write chances anything, apart from among ourselves. I just think you gave an overly simplistic account of what to expect from De Ligt as a player. Having seen him play, including for Bayern, he looks like he’s well worth what we look like paying for him, which is not what Juve paid. I don’t think eaither of us can credibly predict how he is going to do for us, as with any CB really.
 
Most likely already agreed and done. Just waiting for bayern to seal the tah deal so leverkusen don't overcharge them.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Well it depends what you mean by “top”. How many are in the top 6 CBs in the world?

Van Dijk certainly was. I don’t think he is now. I don’t think they have anyone now who is even close to prime Van Dijk. Or the other great CBs they’ve had over the years

For me none. It’s not an underhanded jab at Holland. I love Holland. And most of my favourite ever players have been Dutch
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Dutch CBs at the Euros included Van Dijk, De Vrij, Aké, Van de Ven, and De Ligt. All of those would improve United's roster of CBs (assuming Maguire and/or Lindelöf leave). I would have most doubts about De Vrij actually - who kept De Ligt out of the team for tactical reasons, not on pure quality. So it's a non-point you're making here.
Fortitude said:
It's weird people keep saying De Ligt is worth every penny of his wages - literally, evidently he isn't, as two clubs are moving him on because of his wages.
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For what it's worth, the reports say that he's willing to take a pay cut to join United.
 
Cheimoon said:
Dutch CBs at the Euros included Van Dijk, De Vrij, Aké, Van de Ven, and De Ligt. All of those would improve United's roster of CBs (assuming Maguire and/or Lindelöf leave). I would have most doubts about De Vrij actually - who kept De Ligt out of the team for tactical reasons, not on pure quality. So it's a non-point you're making here.

For what it's worth, the reports say that he's willing to take a pay cut to join United.
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Sorry which part is a non-point?

My overall point was that I think the £40-43m mark is unrealistic for a defender who is not an automatic starter for either club or country, who needs his career reviving and who has been told by this club that he’s no longer needed.
 
Fortitude said:
It's weird people keep saying De Ligt is worth every penny of his wages - literally, evidently he isn't, as two clubs are moving him on because of his wages.
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Bayern have to cut their wage bill and gave de Ligt £260k/week (apparently)… lots of clubs will/should be to meet incoming squad cost:revenue rules.

…we’re offering about £180k/week?
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Sorry which part is a non-point?

My overall point was that I think the £40-43m mark is unrealistic for a defender who is not an automatic starter for either club or country, who needs his career reviving and who has been told by this club that he’s no longer needed.
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The bit about it mattering that he doesn't start for the Netherlands, per what I explained.

For what it's worth, he also doesn't need to revive his career: he's still a starter for Bayern when fit, he was just injured a lot last year. And they didn't say he's not needed, but not wanted (because of his salary). As far as I know.
 
Fortitude said:
But something doesn’t add up; no club relinquishes elite defenders they want to keep, even if other players had to be sold to pay their star turn, they would do it.

What’s essentially being said is neither club see him as worthy of the wage and so “reluctantly” move him on.
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Again, make things up and then pass it off as a fact, you have no idea why he is leaving, but you go with a negative view. He is a top class player who will improve United.
 
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Fortitude said:
Leaving Ajax he looked like the next great one and he and De Jong both got premium rate for that. Unfortunately, neither lived up to their billing and their clubs try to offload them when they can.

I get that they were calculated gambles, but still, a spade should be called a spade. I have my doubts about him, especially in the PL, but I sure hope I’m wrong.
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Salary and fee tend to change every one's perspective. We have seen that multiple times with the likes of Antony and Maguire.

In my opinion him moving at a top club at age 19 was already difficult enough especially at a club like Juve who has little patience with kids and tend to play a different style to Ajax. Add that monstrous salary to the mix and it became unbearable

Don't take me wrong, I have my concerns with de ligt. He isn't fast enough, he is injury prone, he is aggressive which might be an issue considering our other CB is Martinez and while he's decent in air he is no Jarrad let alone Maguire. However as many Juve fans told me, de ligt is Decent. He's not that good to justify his salary
 
Cheimoon said:
The bit about it mattering that he doesn't start for the Netherlands, per what I explained.

For what it's worth, he also doesn't need to revive his career: he's still a starter for Bayern when fit, he was just injured a lot last year. And they didn't say he's not needed, but not wanted (because of his salary). As far as I know.
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I think his career does need a revival. You can’t tell me his career is where you thought it would be by now when he left Ajax (as their teenage captain wasn’t he?)

I thought he’d be one of the best in the world by now but it isn’t the case. And I hope (in the event he signs for United) that he gets his career back on track because time is on his side to get there still

Overall I don’t think he’s a £40m+ signing at all because his career has stagnated and it’s up to the buying club to get it back on track
 
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