De Ligt | €45+5m agreement reached pending medical | Signed!
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It’s always funny how elitist Utd fans can be.
Not wanting De Ligt because he’s a Bayern’s “cast off’. This, from a team that hasn’t won the league or made the CL semi for 11 years and finished 8th last season.
Assna signed 2 City’s cast offs, actual unwanted players, and those 2 played a big role in them getting their first top 4 finish in years. Having competent players from a winning environment is important to any nascent sporting projects.
Not wanting De Ligt because he’s a Bayern’s “cast off’. This, from a team that hasn’t won the league or made the CL semi for 11 years and finished 8th last season.
Assna signed 2 City’s cast offs, actual unwanted players, and those 2 played a big role in them getting their first top 4 finish in years. Having competent players from a winning environment is important to any nascent sporting projects.
Amen amen and amen. Could not have put it any better myself. A few on here are still living in alternate realities. There is a reason we finished 8th and that is because the vast majority of our players are pure unadulterated shite. De Ligt is better than every single defender at the club bar maybe Martinez. We would be lucky to have him.
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Says enough.
I remember when Stam, Beckham and Ruud were United cast offs
It's also very different picking up a "cast off" who's 29/30 and on the downslope of their career, from one who's still only 24. De Ligt is younger than the likes of Dalot, Rashford, Martinez, and Mount - all players who we'd assume have a lot of football left to play in their careers. De Ligt could be a mainstay of the defence for the next 6/7years.
We'd still have been a better team with them players, and it's not as if we sold them for top fees
Well it depends what you mean by “top”. How many are in the top 6 CBs in the world?
Van Dijk certainly was. I don’t think he is now. I don’t think they have anyone now who is even close to prime Van Dijk. Or the other great CBs they’ve had over the years
For me none. It’s not an underhanded jab at Holland. I love Holland. And most of my favourite ever players have been Dutch
I think it's simply because we haven't had that much success with players that big teams were willing to sell to us. The main thinking imo is that if Real, Bayern or any other big fish are willing to sell a player to us, he is most likely done at the highest level or they feel he is simply not good enough.
Sure they might still be good enough for our position right now but I think buying players like that must always fall under heavy scrutiny. Yoro for example is a deal that imo made sense, a young player that was target by the best clubs in Europe and who while still being rough fit the overall profile of a modern defender. I'm all for buying de Ligt if we really think he is going to be an upgrade to the team and not because he looked like he could be the best defender in the world 4 years ago at Ajax, we need to critically evaluate every player we buy and see if he fits into what we are planning to do with the squad.
Not many people are in the top 6 CBs in the world.
Theirs 6 in fact, so you're basically asking how many world class defenders do Holland have
Just a small edit, and I know it's not a barometer of how good they really are, but Fifa ratings for the current season has two dutch defenders in the top 6
Van Dijk being top and De Ligt being 6th
Well to simplify it then, I don’t think a CB who is regularly sitting on the bench behind a 32 year old De Vrij or the current Bayern set of CBs and who has been told he isn’t part of the plans at his club should be valued at £40m or over. £30m is fair IMO as it’s his next club who’ll have to put in the work to revive his career which has been on a downward curve in recent timesNot many people are in the top 6 CBs in the world.
Theirs 6 in fact, so you're basically asking how many world class defenders do Holland have
Just a small edit, and I know it's not a barometer of how good they really are, but Fifa ratings for the current season has two dutch defenders in the top 6
Van Dijk being top and De Ligt being 6th
And we will play him there again if all of our centre halves get injured, including De Ligt. So what?
Only that he doesnt sit on the bench at Bayern. And international football is not just a case of play your "best" players. Tactics are involved.
De Vrij was even better than van Dijk this Euro's, who again is basically a top 3 CB in the Premier League.
That’s all well and good but as far as I can see Lindelof and Maguire are still here. So is the proposal for them to now be sat in the stands all season?
To be fair, he played 22 league matches for Bayern this season
He played 60+ minutes in 14 of them, or make that 16 if he played at least half a game.
You could argue with the arrival of Kim, he was seen as a back up and didn't feature much in the first 5 games that he was available for.
He then seemed to be one of their main defenders from that moment onwards as his minutes soon shot up, including many 90minute matches.
So 34 games in the league
Played in 22 of them
Injured for 7 of them
Suspended for 1 of them
Didn't come off the bench for 4 of them
Doesn't seem to he's sitting on the bench for other players.
Sounds like they need money and want to lower their wage bill and he's a candidate for that, just like Barcelona were happy to move De Jong on
Then they need to be sold. And clearly, they haven’t been. Ao the idea seems to be to have Maguire, Lindelof and Evans in the stands. Which is a stupid idea, when you may as well just have Maguire on the pitch/bench and save money.
If indeed they are all so terrible, then we newd to first focus on getting them out before we concern ourselves with bringing in all their replacements. We have already signed one centre half.
All of Licha, Maguire and Yoro were more expensive to buy. De Ligt is, by all reasonable measures, a better player than all of them.
I think your valuation is way off also because you keep relying on wrong assumptions about the state of his career. I and many have pointed out that he is not "regularly sitting on the bench" for Bayern but you do not seem to accept information that runs counter your belief.
De Ligt isn’t better than Martinez.United having 6 CB's (Martinez, de Ligt, Yoro, Maguire, Lindelof, Evans) is fine, we had 6 (Martinez, Varane, Maguire, Lindelof, Evans, Kambwala) last season and even that wasnt enough at times. We currently have no big talent, so having Evans there is fine.
If we get a reasonable offer for Maguire/Lindelof, you can move one of them on. If not, just keep them as a squad player for one more year.
Squad building isn't completed in just one window.
By all reasonable measures, he is. That is not saying anything bad about Licha.
It’s bizarre. A good player is a good player. Especially one who’s 24.
Some fans won’t have wanted us to sign Robben
That’s not really how football works. You can’t just buy loads of players to cover a previous injury crisis. Teams sometimes go down to having to get an emergency loan for a goalkeeper, but once they are fit, they would be stupid to go and buy another 3 senior goalkeepers on the basis that they would have actually gotten to play if they were at the club the previous season.
IF a good offer for Lindelof/Maguire comes - the clubs should take it. And if and when that happens, they should also buy a replacement, be it De Ligt or anyone else. We were in the same position last summer, nothing has changed. We had accepted a bid for Maguire, and would have bought in probably Todibo if he left. But he didn’t, so we didn’t. Instead, Maguire stayed and played. Numbers wise, we are no different from then having signed Yoro.
We are waiting to sell a RB so we can bring in Mazraoui. Why not just bring in Mazraoui anyway? We need to do squad building with sense. If Maguire stays, he can play. And if we feel he isn’t even up to that, then we need to be actively seeking a buyer for him, leaving him out of the tour etc because the manager sees no role for him. But that isn’t the case, the manager will use him if he’s here, and as far as I can see - he is.
From a cynical POV you're right. However you have to take in account the human aspect of things. The current setup suggest that Maguire and Lindelof will have an important role next season which in turn gives them zero incentive to leave now and a 100% incentive to stay. The reason being that next summer they can walk on a free and since they had played a decent chunk of games they'll be able to carve a good deal for themselves. But if De Ligt comes then everything changes. Maguire and Lindelof won't get alot of games which in turn could get them concerned thus asking for a transfer. That means that we'll recoup some of the money that we invested on De Ligt. Let's not forget that football clubs have very short memories and 6 months of barely playing football can have a huge impact on a player's career.
I don’t accept “he doesn’t sit on the bench” no.
This is a pasted statement United have on their official website - “It is our stated ambition to re-establish Manchester United as a title-winning club.”
So naturally our signings, especially those under 25, are geared towards players who’ll be part of a title winning squad at some point over the next 3-5 years
So I’m looking at De Ligt in that light. And he’s a 23 year old defender who isn’t a guaranteed starter for club or country however you spin it
I’m not even writing him off. If he signs I think he can, and hope he does, become one of the best CBs in the world. I just don’t think he’s on that track currently and I’d want him to become a guaranteed starter for club and country in the next year or so for him to be on that track. It won’t be Bayern doing it and I don’t think they are right to prevent De Ligt leaving to fulfil it by asking for unrealistic money.
Check our CB injuries for the past 10 years, it is not a rare occurrence. It happens every season.
Other than that, we have lost Kambwala and Varane, so that's 2 CB's. So far only Yoro has been brought in as a replacement.
Other than that, it isn't like Maguire is useless. He's a good squad player who we wouldn't mind to keep, but as he's on high wages we also wouldn't mind to sell if a good offer comes in. There's absolutely no reason to push him out of the door, which would make us see even worse bids anyway.
I agree, I'd love for Lindelof to leave in that scenario. Maguire might be better for us financially. Hope we can sign de Ligt next week, so that these things move.
If they do end up staying, wouldn't be the wordt thing in the world either.
We haven’t had much success buying players small teams were willing to sell us either.
At the end of the day, he’s a player with a very good age, physical and technical profile, with plenty of experience, at a reasonable price, who is willing to join us, worked with the current manager before and was recommended by the new sporting leadership. I can understand concerns about fitness and such (which in this case isn’t fair, he’s not an injury prone player, just not a spotless one) but the line of thinking that just because Bayern is open to selling him means he’s not a good a player or wouldn’t improve us is absolute bizarre
Martinez wasn’t a starter in the World Cup, behind Otamendi
Oh come on, for the international stage we're absolutely stacked and no past Dutch team had a bigger choice of great defenders than this one. Not just centrally, but also on the wingback positions.
Sky Sports Germany are reporting Bayern are close to agreeing a deal for Tah.
Ah now, don't forget those greats like Boulahrouz, Braafheid, Mathijsen and Ooijer that got you to the world cup final in 2010.
De vrij played over De Ligt because he was able to cover the RB space with an established chemistry w/ Dumfries. Not because he's necessarily a better center back.
Moreover it's Koeman reasoning. I think it's poor logic to point to this sort of an example really. Imagine if some Spaniards are thinking the same for Palmer because he couldn't get in the England team.
Yes he is? 18 year old De Ligt was far better than Martinez in the Dutch League. Martinez indeed started well enough for United, but has been injured since. De Ligt was in the bundesliga team of the season the season before last and better than any season Martinez has been in his career so far.
The 90s pairing Stam, F. de Boer was good, but a "De Boertje" is a thing for a reason. Dude made at least 1 capital blunder in every game he played.
If you are injury prone - do you really see United as a favoured destination?
Well, maybe if you heard all the good talk about the rehabilitation wing at Carrington.
Or, you stay the hell out of there since you get injured the same day you sign the contract
Well, maybe if you heard all the good talk about the rehabilitation wing at Carrington.
Or, you stay the hell out of there since you get injured the same day you sign the contract
Matter of opinion. Both are very good players and United quality. I don't know who is better, but at the moment, Martinez is hugely overrated by United fans and De Ligt is very underrated.
Having them both, with Yoro, would be awesome.
Not really true. They are also completely different players but wouldnt say de Ligt at Ajax was better than Martinez in EtH last season at Ajax. Martinez was Ajax' player of the year, which de Ligt has never managed to. Not sure where your hard claims are coming from.
Martinez was also formidable in his first season at United, de Ligt was also great that season at Bayern. Not much in-between them. Last season is hard to tell, Martinez barely fit but finished the season strongly with a great display in the FA CUP win, part of a wonder duo at the Copa also with victory. De Ligt finished the season strongly at Bayern too.
How is Martinez hugely overrated? Other than his first two matches since joining United, he's been quite great whenever fit. Acknowledged individually by Pep also not too long ago.
It's mental. De ligt was captain of Ajax at 19. Only defender to ever win UEFA Golden Boy award. Won the league with Ajax, won the league with Juventus, won the league with Bayern and he's 24.
Proven winner, massive upgrade to our defence alongside Martinez and Yoro.
And yet people are complaining or saying he's no better than harry Maguire. Which is laughable. Maguire wouldn't get into the Bayern or Juventus squads.
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