€50m for De Ligt is what’s being quoted I believe
De Ligt | €45+5m agreement reached pending medical | Signed!
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Strange how maths works, but if it drops 25% it has to go up 33.3%r to get back to where it was
I'm fairly sure we can't still play him if we sell him.
The thing about Lindelof is he's spent a large part of his time at United covering for Maguire, which rather colours people's opinions of him.
When he's played with a proper partner, Martinez or Varane, he's been pretty good.
tbf to Maguire, he did step up last season, because he had to as there was no one else most of the time and was generally decent.
I teach maths, I’m aware of how percentages work. Clearly it would increase by 25% of the original value and not the lower wage. Completely irrelevant to the point as well, which was that the wage could go up closer to 250k with champions league football.
Why would he have to be involved in the 25% decrease this year?
He had nothing to do with our failure to qualify for the ECL.
The reporting was that he would accept a lower salary than at Bayern, around £170k.
I get that different Bayern people feel inclined to spotlight different narratives, as with us. It’s important to be sensitive to the fact that it’s a strange concept for us that are used to ‘is Harry Maguire and Victor Lindelöf not complete frauds’ discussions’, that Kim, whom we collectively coveted for a couple of seasons as the best CB option we should spend all our money on, and Upamecano, whom we collectively coveted for a couple of seasons as the best CB option we should spend all our money on, can be referenced under ‘lack of options’.
We would probably be more inclined than you to be happy with spunking €42m on someone like De Ligt, whom we collectively coveted for 4-5 seasons as the definitively best CB option we should spend all our money on, and then some.
He wouldn’t be involved in any decrease. He would, like the others, get offered a performance related contract that had different levels for non-CL seasons as opposed to CL-seasons.
Tbfrank I think for most of us it wouldn’t matter wether the percentage of change was 15%, 25%, 33 % or 40%, and wether it was the function of increase or decrease, as long as there was a perfomance related function in there somewhere.
Not sure why we don’t just keep
Maguire as a senior defender rather than pursue De Ligt personally. Fairly similar defenders to me.
Maguire as a senior defender rather than pursue De Ligt personally. Fairly similar defenders to me.
De Ligt is six years younger
Math is more grammatically logical than maths.
We don’t say historys or Englishs or sciences when we mean the subjects of history, English or science, so why is it maths?
We don’t say historys or Englishs or sciences when we mean the subjects of history, English or science, so why is it maths?
Because it’s short for ‘mathematics’
Yeah not comparable with the age difference
But he said it with such authority, I almost doubted myself
That's a wildly generous assessment. He's been here for 7 years and has never achieved a single of consistent good form or a peak as anything close to Maguire, let alone the others. When a player with somehow over 200+ games for Utd is so secondary and in the background amongst his numerous centre back partners, isn't seen as all that by the majority of fans, then said player just isn't all that. Maguire got injured at the end of the 2021 season where he was one of or arguably our best player and a lot of us was concerned as he would miss the Europa League Final. Turns out, the concerns was valid as we lost that final, where Lindelof had a hand or rather did not in the first goal conceded. What's more interesting is that despite being one of our most senior players, he was the second to last (just before De Gea) take a penalty in that game where there was a total of 11 penalties by our team; even Tuanzebe, a youth player with barely any playing time that season came, who on as a last min substitute took one ahead of him. In the 2 Cup Finals Lindelof has started in, we lost both, one being the Europa League and the other being last year's FA Cup Final against City and guess what? Again, he had a hand in the first goal conceded. We won 2 out of the other 3 Cup Finals he did not play in.
Later on in 2021, Maguire was taken to the Euros by Southgate, got back to fitness in the later stages and was one of their standout players with him scoring that absolute top bins thunderbolt penalty against Italy in the penalty shoot out.
Maguire has had longer and poorer veins of form and perhaps a lower bottom level but his overall impact and contribution to Utd is light years ahead of Lindelof, a defender, who does not like to engage or defend. He's an absolute fraud, piggybacking off the success of others. The reason why he 'plays well' with Varane or Martinez is because those two do the majority of the defending, leading, organisation and on the ball work i.e anyone competent can look 'good' to casuals, if their best skill is being in the vicinity of opposition players but not really doing anything aka Lindelof.
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And Maguire doesn’t need to be signed.
I'm not an expert on De Ligt by any means but from what's implied and from what ive read/briefly seen, he is quicker than Maguire (at least in getting to top speed and turning) and is more of a organizer of the defence.
I don't think Maguire is a bad defender, and he had a decent season last year but if we can move that defensive line further up the pitch and De Ligt can do that, then i'm all for this transfer. Bayern fans seem to think highly of him too.
I'm not desperate for us to sign De Ligt either but he's quicker and more aggressive than Maguire.
I really like De Ligt, I think he is gonna be our best center back next season. Him and Yoro as first options and Martinez as third will be the most likely scenario.
1. Player willing to take significant paycut
2. Player only want us and let the entire world knows about this
3. We encourage him and leads him to this stance
4. Ex-Manager who knows how to use him
5. The starting asking price from Bayern is already reasonable (IMO). Fairly sure the price will go down.
6. Bayern desperate to sell to lower the wages
7. Bayern desperate to sell to be able to bring in Tah
Connect the dots.
2. Player only want us and let the entire world knows about this
3. We encourage him and leads him to this stance
4. Ex-Manager who knows how to use him
5. The starting asking price from Bayern is already reasonable (IMO). Fairly sure the price will go down.
6. Bayern desperate to sell to lower the wages
7. Bayern desperate to sell to be able to bring in Tah
Connect the dots.
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Tah?
No.6, Bayern desperate to sell to lower wages and also allow them to sign Tah?
Fascinated to see how we'll line up if we do manage to bring him in.
I know that Yoro's minutes will definitely have to be managed, and so will Martinez's coming off last season, but I do wonder whether ETH would roll the dice on a back 3 at times
I know that Yoro's minutes will definitely have to be managed, and so will Martinez's coming off last season, but I do wonder whether ETH would roll the dice on a back 3 at times
Not bad!
Martinez is clearly our best CB and will be first choice whenever fit with the other two fighting for the other spot.
He should, we need more flexibility in some games
Martinez will play more games then any other CB if they all are fit because he is our best defender at the moment and the only left footed (not counting Evans, I see him more for cup games and in case of emergency).
If hope we sell at least Lindelöf (even though I would rather sell Maguire because we would get more money for him and De Ligt would be the perfect replacement).
If we end up signing De Ligt, we will have the best CBs "team" (Martinez, Yoro, De Ligt + one of Maguire or Lindelöf with Evans as back up).
De Ligt would also help take of some pressure of Yoro, so we can let the boy develop and not have all the pressure on his shoulders at this age.
The more I think about it, IF we sign De Ligt has to go, Maguire has to go because Maguire cant play LCB while Lindelöf is much better passer and can cover up for Martinez (also Evans who is the onlyl left footed we have if Martinez picks up a injury or when he needs to rest).
If hope we sell at least Lindelöf (even though I would rather sell Maguire because we would get more money for him and De Ligt would be the perfect replacement).
If we end up signing De Ligt, we will have the best CBs "team" (Martinez, Yoro, De Ligt + one of Maguire or Lindelöf with Evans as back up).
De Ligt would also help take of some pressure of Yoro, so we can let the boy develop and not have all the pressure on his shoulders at this age.
The more I think about it, IF we sign De Ligt has to go, Maguire has to go because Maguire cant play LCB while Lindelöf is much better passer and can cover up for Martinez (also Evans who is the onlyl left footed we have if Martinez picks up a injury or when he needs to rest).
He can mate. He's done it for years. Though ten Hag would obviously prefer a left footer like Branthwaite.
Have you ever watched Maguire play? Maguire has probably played mre games for United as a LCB than RCB and definitely for England
I know that he has, and that he did a lot of it the first 2 seasons here, and from that positions is pretty much very all his bigger "bloopers" and mistakes were made from because of his issue to not even make a 20m good pass out to the left back, instead he needs 1-2 seconds more to turn his big body and hit the ball with the right foot (and those 1-2 seconds are so important in our style of play, specially in transitions and counter attacks)
I would never play him there if he have any other option. We need either a right footed who can use his left foot properly or left footed LCB - in best of worlds we would have signed both De Ligt and Branthwaite (0% of us signing both, 5% on Brantwaite and at the moment 20% that we even get De Ligt).
As long as Yoro and Martinez are fit and in good shape we still have one the best CBs pair and Yoro will only get better while Martinez has at least another 5-6 years left. I hope we don´t sell AWB as well, and that Shaw can play most of our big games (but i would buy a LB - Shaws fitness is not to be trusted unfortunately and Malacia is not good enough as the first back up choice, i hope Harry Amass can develop fast).
Dude, you made my day. The overrating of ETH is real
More than left / right center back, it's better to view the functions expected for each of the CBs in the system.
We expect one CB to sit deeper and sweep and the partner to be the aggressive, "front foot" defender. Someone who is comfortable holding off a pressing player and carrying the ball up the pitch. Someone who challenges the striker for the first ball. Someone who can defend the wide spaces well. The sweeper is a good box defender, has good anticipation and excellent passing skill. One standard build up pattern we engage in is GK --> LCB --> RCB makes a quick dart forward into midfield and the LCB is composed enough to hold off the striker and play the ball into midfield. Many such patterns where the LCBs passing skill is relied upon.
Now we've chopped and changed center backs to the point that both Martinez and Maguire played both roles and both of them do better as the CB mops up behind. If you ask Maguire to go in aggressive and win the ball off a strikers feet, he will but then he'll get done in once a game and has basically no agility or pace to recover.
So all that said, currently the LCB is tasked with the mop up and RCB is tasked with being aggressive one so I think De Ligt and Yoro at RCB and Martinez / Maguire at LCB.
We expect one CB to sit deeper and sweep and the partner to be the aggressive, "front foot" defender. Someone who is comfortable holding off a pressing player and carrying the ball up the pitch. Someone who challenges the striker for the first ball. Someone who can defend the wide spaces well. The sweeper is a good box defender, has good anticipation and excellent passing skill. One standard build up pattern we engage in is GK --> LCB --> RCB makes a quick dart forward into midfield and the LCB is composed enough to hold off the striker and play the ball into midfield. Many such patterns where the LCBs passing skill is relied upon.
Now we've chopped and changed center backs to the point that both Martinez and Maguire played both roles and both of them do better as the CB mops up behind. If you ask Maguire to go in aggressive and win the ball off a strikers feet, he will but then he'll get done in once a game and has basically no agility or pace to recover.
So all that said, currently the LCB is tasked with the mop up and RCB is tasked with being aggressive one so I think De Ligt and Yoro at RCB and Martinez / Maguire at LCB.
Hasn't Martinez been the aggressive one?
Yeah, I believe the CBs must be segregated in terms of their playstyles rather than Left/Right foot. However, Licha is much better being the aggressive type (did so very well at the Copa and in United games too) and Yoro (atleast from the analysis seen so far) is a sweeper type, opposite of what you suggested.
No chance Martinez gets dropped. Been our best CB whenever he’s played. Plus he’s the only one that’s left footed. So it will be De Ligt and Yoro fighting for the RCB spot. Unless of course Martinez is injured.
Or we bring three at the back into our repertoire
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