He certainly got one hell of a tune out of his other former players in: Antony, Van Der Beek, Onana and Amrabat. He has been to coaching former players, what Beethoven was to classical music.
De Ligt | €45+5m agreement reached pending medical | Signed!
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Cool. I wouldn't be appalled if we shelled that out but I think it's probably a bit optimistic for someone who's never hit the heights anticipated and is injury prone. I don't think we're being unreasonable here (we were with the Branthwaite bids).
Yeah, I don't mind if it is that as a total package but maybe £35m guaranteed with add-ons bringing it up. As somebody pointed out mid-table PL defenders are moving for £40m these days so it's not terrible if he could put his injuries behind him and get back to better form. He's still so young for a defender that he could have another 8-10 years of high-level performance. Most center-backs would be making their first big move at his age.
Still hoping this happens. Would love to see him in our colours.
Hope so. I’ll try and have an open mind if he comes here.
City seem to keep a defensive cohort of Ake, Dias, Akanji, Gvardiol and Stones happy as CBs - granted they play a third CB at LB generally but either way.
I think I personally need to get over the idea of having two starting CBs and then having 2-3 CBs who “expect/happy” to be back up. For example, the Rio and Vidic era gave me an unrealistic idea of how deep a defensive depth should be. I don’t even remember who were our back up CBs were then because they were just ever presents.
I think I personally need to get over the idea of having two starting CBs and then having 2-3 CBs who “expect/happy” to be back up. For example, the Rio and Vidic era gave me an unrealistic idea of how deep a defensive depth should be. I don’t even remember who were our back up CBs were then because they were just ever presents.
But what if he already peaked?
I think he’s a good as ours. ETH wouldn’t name drop him to the extent he did otherwise.
From the point Johnny Evans first broke in to the first team squad in 2008, until the point Rio and Vidic left, Evans appeared in over half of our league games.
We also hardly had any. Leaving out brief periods (Piqué, Smalling, Jones) for the most part the only dedicated CB depth for Rio-Vidic was Jonny Evans, then a collection of occasional cameos from fullbacks like Brown, Heinze, O'Shea and GazN.
When injuries piled up we would have Carrick there, much like Casemiro this season.
I get your point but they have a valid point as well. Juventus back then used a very low block which basically didn't suited De Ligt very much. Maybe ETH can give him the style of football he's suited for
But you said that one of them also followed him at Bayern and he still maintains the opinion that he's ridiculously overrated. And Bayern didn't play low block.
Between ETH failing to get a tune out of former Ajax players and De Ligt not really justifying the hype and price tags in his post-Ajax career, it naturally makes a little sceptical. At this point in time, I'm more inclined to never take any players he has coached at Ajax prior. Because I think it's been conclusively proven time and again that the level there was lower than here and people's opinion on the quality of those players is more often than not unjustifiably inflated.
Isn't this more to do with the Serie A handball rule at the time?
Covid-era Serie A was absolutely mental. Every single ball-to-hand contact in the box was given as a pen, and attackers just started intentionally flicking the ball up at defenders' arms. Lazio alone were given 18 pens in 19/20 and Milan were given 20 pens in 20/21.
For comparison, the most anybody had last season (now they've gone back to using a less batshit insane interpretation of handball) was 7.
I don't think so. If I remember well De Ligt's debut in itself was a disaster with an own goal in the International Champions Cup match against Inter Milan in Nanjing, China. Buffon made his famous 'nuvola di fantozzi' (fantozzi is the Italian version of an unlucky Mr Bean)speech in response to Cassano's criticism back in October 2019 . Covid hit Italy back in 2020.
I don't know about that as I didn't delve of how he went with Bayern. All they said is that he lost his first team place there. A little research show that Tuchel didn't like him very much and he was also unlucky with injuries as well. In my opinion we shouldn't go for him unless he reduce his salary in a significant way. He's being paid far too much which was an issue with Juventus (Cassano mentioned it) and its probably the reason why Bayern wants him out
He sort of did mate, not in a Prunier/Bebe kind of way but he certainly failed to live to the expectations set. Juventus don't usually take a loss on a signing but they did on De Ligt and the fans hardly missed him. Bremer is considered as a better transfer then him and De Ligt is on the way out again.
Yes, despite Bayern fans on their sub-reddit and forums majority holding the opinion that he is their best defender.
Bayern have their own motivations for selling the player. They have a squad with a good number of defenders and they're trying to procure spending money for rejuvinating their offensive squad options.
Out of all the posts I've read here and on the Juve threads, you and maybe one or two others are hugely against the grain in terms of sentiment.
He's also Bayerns best center back since he joined, in the words of many of his own fans.
If we got him, we'd have - Martinez, Yoro, De Ligt, Evans - as 4 we know for sure will be here next season. Then there's Maguire and Lindelof. I wonder is there room for both of them to leave? Shaw can deputise at cb but with shaw's and evan's fitness concerns, then maybe one of these 2 needs to stay. Personally I'd lead towards Maguire staying, he had a decent season and does offer a good presence late in tight games. Lindelof has just never fully convinced. So maybe lindelof out this summer, maguire out next summer (with evans) and one more CB next summer.
Giiven our recent track record on defensive injuries and the fact that 2 CB's have left the club signing replacements should be a priority, having a new DM/CM won't matter if we don't have any defenders up to the job
Surely the end for Lindelof, as Maguire can offer a solid backup. However, we may want to cash in on Maguire after his up turn in form.
Yeah, it’s odd. You see the same things (which have been addressed numerous times) brought up over and over again: injury ridden, not great at juve/bayern, lost his place at Bayern….hell, at one point there was someone in here arguing against the Bayern fans who corrected them - when trying to convince everyone that MDL’s actually a bench player at Bayern and has been a terrible transfer for them
Evans would be 5th choice . If Maguire is sold, we will go for one more else it would be Licha, Yoro, De ligt, Maguire .
And having defenders won’t matter if we don’t have a proper DM protecting them.
Maguire played well last year. So if he is not sold, chances are he will fight for a starting place instead of being happy with a back-up role
Im always aware when there is a young hyped star who have not fulfilled expectations and club after club are ready to sell them. Usually they will never reach their potential. If there ever was that potential. There must be a good reason why De Ligt is in a situation he is. And the main reason isn´t his salary. Players current teams usually knows their level and/or injuries the best. Like Bayern did with Schweinsteiger. So im a bit sceptical with this. But not 100% against it though.
Redcafe is, by nature, an optimist regarding transfers. I fount the same level of resistance when criticizing Murtough (first years) as DOF and Maguire's signing. To be clear I am not against De Ligt as I was against those two. All I am saying is that I asked Juventus fans what do they think about him, not the fanboys from rededdit but people who I know had followed Juventus for 3 decades and had gone to the stadium at least 3 times a year.. I also made my research on the Italian media which include criticism done by former players. All of them pretty much align to one another. He's a decent player but he's nowhere near to WC and his salary is simply ridiculous. I am also concerned about his recent injury record but there again I am no doctor.
Mino really played a fast one on the lad. I believe that he would have had a much better career if he was guided better
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De Ligt is definitely the number 1 starter next to Martinez. ETH absolutely adores him and De Jong. Yoro is only 18, he will get plenty of chances this season still.
Yoro is 18 and has never played in England. Is he as good as Varane was when fit? Probably not, will he be as good or better at some point? Hopefully, but you can’t go into the season hoping Yoro is going to start at our first choice CB 3 times a week.
Yeah. His last two teams think that he's not worth his wage and prefer to let him go. Hopefully we don't offer him similar wage.
if he reduces the salary in a substantial way + he's cleared in terms of injuries then I have no issues with having him around. As said I don't think he's a bad player. He's just not a £263000 per week. In comparison Van Dijk is on 220k, Saliba is on 196k a week, Bremer is on £153k per week and Martinez is on 120k a week
And probably pissed Bruno also, when a new guy that hasn't done anything will get paid way more than him (with Bruno's 25% non-CL wage reduction).
I get that we wont offer £70m for Branthwaite - but the amount Bayern want for De Ligt really isn't shocking. Negotiate sure - but if we walk away from that transfer because we can't pay £50m for De Ligt then we have done something stupid
Wages.
Which according to most experts has been solved
The thing is that both is true and then it's question of which narrative you want to spin. He definitely lost his spot in the first team during some parts of the season and for a while Tuchel preferred Kim & Upamecano over him. Then over injuries, Kim being away for Asia cup, and various blunders of Upamecano to the extent that he singlehandedly cost us games and definitely needed a break, he got his spot back for the end of the season.Yeah, it’s odd. You see the same things (which have been addressed numerous times) brought up over and over again: injury ridden, not great at juve/bayern, lost his place at Bayern….hell, at one point there was someone in here arguing against the Bayern fans who corrected them - when trying to convince everyone that MDL’s actually a bench player at Bayern and has been a terrible transfer for them
So he got his spot back due to lack of options, and not because Tuchel regarded him as indispensable or guaranteed starter. If I remember correctly, they even had to rush him back into the team at one point as no other defenders were left.
If Upamecano had not had his total mental blackouts in the Bayern shirt and we had seen a version of him more akin to the Upamecano at France, I doubt De ligt would have rotated into the team.
Put some respeck on Wesley Browns name.
They impact upon what we’re prepared to put into the transfer fee, hence the haggling.
€50m for De Ligt is what’s being quoted I believe
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