[Cassidy]

Completely disagree

As I've written in another thread, our team's whole set up is designed to compensate for DDG lack of control over his own box and very poor and panicky passing.

As a result, the entire set up has to drop deeper, which in turn invites more pressure on our defense/ more conceded chances/ late equalizers etc. Also, it's harder for us to dominate possesion and keep them away, since other teams know they can press us higher up the pitch. Couple that we the fact that that Dave can't even kick the ball and ends up gifting it most of the time to the opposition, which in turn leads us plenty of time to being hit on the counter every time Dave clears the ball.

The flipside is also true: due to the fact that we are so deep, it takes us longer(anywhere from 5-10 yards compared to other teams) just to reach the opposition goal, which in turn allows the opposition team an extra 1-2 seconds to set up their defensive formation. If you played football, then you know that 2 seconds is a long time sometimes. This fact is also exacerbated by the fact the DDG can't keep possesion and ends up kicking the ball out of play or to poorly positioned players more often than not.

If you think I'm talkin nonsense, look at the most attacking sides in the league City, Arsenal, Brighton, Brentford, Liverpool. All of the sides above are in the Top 5 highest defensive lines in the PL. You know where we rank? Bottom 3

I get it that we have our ST as a priority. But if the ST is 10/10 priority, then the GK is at least a 8/10 priority that should be easily solvable with 10-15 million+ the sale of Henderson.

I'm hopeful we still do this

 

[Cassidy]

I'm saying I don't think we are capable

Then we are toast anyway then, why give the new contract to a player who is well below standard? I.e why continue to do what we already know has not been working for us?

 

[arnie_ni]

Using that logic there’s no point signing any more players ever. Good money after bad.

That's not what I'm saying at all.

 

[JagUTD]

He is not some superb shot stopper, he makes saves every keeper does. It was years ago that he was an extra-ordinary shot stopper.

He is a genuinely superb shot stopper. It's only because he makes ridiculous saves so often that it's become normal for him.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

Completely disagree

As I've written in another thread, our team's whole set up is designed to compensate for DDG lack of control over his own box and very poor and panicky passing.

As a result, the entire set up has to drop deeper, which in turn invites more pressure on our defense/ more conceded chances/ late equalizers etc. Also, it's harder for us to dominate possesion and keep them away, since other teams know they can press us higher up the pitch. Couple that we the fact that that Dave can't even kick the ball and ends up gifting it most of the time to the opposition, which in turn leads us plenty of time to being hit on the counter every time Dave clears the ball.

The flipside is also true: due to the fact that we are so deep, it takes us longer(anywhere from 5-10 yards compared to other teams) just to reach the opposition goal, which in turn allows the opposition team an extra 1-2 seconds to set up their defensive formation. If you played football, then you know that 2 seconds is a long time sometimes. This fact is also exacerbated by the fact the DDG can't keep possesion and ends up kicking the ball out of play or to poorly positioned players more often than not.

If you think I'm talkin nonsense, look at the most attacking sides in the league City, Arsenal, Brighton, Brentford, Liverpool. All of the sides above are in the Top 5 highest defensive lines in the PL. You know where we rank? Bottom 3

I get it that we have our ST as a priority. But if the ST is 10/10 priority, then the GK is at least a 8/10 priority that should be easily solvable with 10-15 million+ the sale of Henderson.

Brilliant post.

 

[arnie_ni]

Then we are toast anyway then

I think we need to sign an established keeper that you'd be very confident will actually be good. I don't trust us to find these cheap young hidden gems other teams do.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

That's not what I'm saying at all.

I don’t know what you’re saying then. Because you surely aren’t arguing that our great record when it comes to signing very expensive players means we should sign a very expensive goalkeeper?

 

[Cassidy]

I think we need to be an established keeper that you'd be very confident will actually be good. I don't trust us to find these cheap young hidden gems other teams do.

His name isn't DDG, and if rumors are to be believed we identified Costa and Raya as options. One would cost only about 20-25m

 

[arnie_ni]

I don’t know what you’re saying then. Because you surely aren’t arguing that our great record when it comes to signing very expensive players means we should sign a very expensive goalkeeper?

Our record signing anyone the past 10 years is very poor yes. I'd love to sign a young keeper for 15mil that'd walk into this team but I just can't see it.

I'm saying if keeping ddg for a year allows us to buy maignain or Costa next summer I'm all for that.

 

[AjaxCunian]

He is a genuinely superb shot stopper. It's only because he makes ridiculous saves so often that it's become normal for him.

No it isn't and the stats back it up. He makes aesthetically pleasing saves though (due to poor positioning in the first place).

 

[arnie_ni]

His name isn't DDG, and if rumors are to be believed we identified Costa and Raya as options. One would cost only about 20-25m

I've never said it is.

All my posts here are what the club are doing, or at least appear to be.

It's not necessarily I want us to do.

 

[Cassidy]

I've never said it is.

All my posts here are what the club are doing, or at least appear to be.

It's not necessarily I want us to do.

If we don't sign someone who will challenge him for his spot this summer then we have made a mistake.
Wouldn't be surprised we make this mistake given that's what this club usually tends to do

 

[ArmaDino]

I'm hopeful we still do this

I followed ETH for a while. There is no way keeping Dave was his idea. He promoted Onana ahead of Stekelenburg at Ajax. When Onana got a dopping ban, instead of bringing back Stekelenburg, he bought an average shot stopper, but brilliant distributor in Pasaveer who was 39 at the time.

I think ETH will get his ball playing GK. It will either be Raya or the Valencia goalie, Mamardashvilil or something like that. If not, I wouldn't put it past him to either promote Kovar/Vitek to the first team.

I think his patience is running thin with the club as ours is.

 

[arnie_ni]

If we don't sign someone who will challenge him for his spot this summer then we have made a mistake

Even say, if it allows us the budget to go and buy someone many would class as a top keeper ie Costa or maignan?

Because I hope that's their plan.

 

[El Jefe]

So who are we spending a world record fee for a goalkeeper on this summer?

No one obviously if we're re-signing DDG.

You don’t have to pay a world record fee to sign a good keeper though. Maignan cost Milan €15m. Less than 2 years ago.

This is true. I should have emphasised it was less about the amount spent and more about getting the best goalie that was on the market and proven at CL level. Something Maignan currently fits the bill in.

 

[Cassidy]

Even say, if it allows us the budget to go and buy someone many would class as a top keeper ie Costa or maignan?

Because I hope that's their plan.

Thats if Costa doesn't end up elsewhere this summer...
Also yes it's a mistake because we also have Henderson on the books

 

[JagUTD]

No it isn't and the stats back it up. He makes aesthetically pleasing saves though (due to poor positioning in the first place).

Knew your opinion would be based on "stats"

Unsurprising though, they're the basis of most of the opinions of modern football fans.

 

[arnie_ni]

Thats if Costa doesn't end up elsewhere this summer...
Also yes it's a mistake because we also have Henderson on the books

Hes not good enough either

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

With Lloris apparently going and Leeds and Leicester both dropping their terrible keepers and both also potentially going down, I think De Gea has a fair shout to be the worst keeper in the league.

He's below average at shot stopping and well below average at every other important part of being a goalkeeper.

He also regularly crumbles when the pressure is on and in the big games, big European nights and cup semi finals and finals etc. Big top 4 deciding matches.

He's hopeless and should have gone at least 2 or 3 years ago. Giving him a new contract is mental.

 

[Cassidy]

Hes not good enough either

Indeed which is why I said we need to sign someone to challenge DDG next season (e.g replace Henderson)

 

[Dec9003]

Knew your opinion would be based on "stats"

Unsurprising though, they're the basis of most of the opinions of modern football fans.

They back up peoples opinions surely? It appears that his shot stopping has declined since his peak and the stats don’t disagree.

 

[Cassidy]

He is a genuinely superb shot stopper. It's only because he makes ridiculous saves so often that it's become normal for him.

Maybe back in 2016

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

He is a genuinely superb shot stopper. It's only because he makes ridiculous saves so often that it's become normal for him.

This is a post from about 2017 surely?

 

[AjaxCunian]

Knew your opinion would be based on "stats"

Unsurprising though, they're the basis of most of the opinions of modern football fans.

JagUTD's bias is a better basis?

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Knew your opinion would be based on "stats"

Unsurprising though, they're the basis of most of the opinions of modern football fans.

He doesn't pass the "eye test" either, if that's what you're alluding to.

 

[JagUTD]

They back up peoples opinions surely? It appears that his shot stopping has declined since his peak and the stats don’t disagree.

Stats give a very limited picture of a players true performance level. And you can find the stats to back up any opinion if you want to.

The shot stopping stat(s) can't tell you what type of shot a keeper saves for example, only watching a player can. Did it takes deflection? Was the keeper unsighted. Far to many variables involved.

It's a similar story with most stats relating to keepers. Save ratios are largely meaningless because some keepers face 1 shot a game, others 10.

Even taking Raya who some want over De Gea, a simple look at the stats don't really paint a convincing picture that he is in anyway the answer. Of course in this case the amateur staticians will suddenly understand that stats only give a glimpse of a players real quality and explain the nuances... Which is exactly what's happened already

 

[Cassidy]

Stats give a very limited picture of a players true performance level. And you can find the stats to back up any opinion if you want to.

The shot stopping stat(s) can't tell you what type of shot a keeper saves for example, only watching a player can. Did it takes deflection? Was the keeper unsighted. Far to many variables involved.

Please provide the stats that backup the opinion DDG is still a top tier shot stopper.

 

[JagUTD]

JagUTD's bias is a better basis?

Watching football. Nothing particularly special.

 

[JagUTD]

Please provide the stats that backup the opinion DDG is still a top tier shot stopper.

What's the clean sheet stats for the Premier League? Would you mind checking them for me?

 

[Cassidy]

What's the clean sheet stats for the Premier League? Would you mind checking them for me?

Oh didn't realise the keeper is solely responsible for clean sheets, interesting.
Didn't realise that stat actually measures anything to do with shot stopping, interesting

Clearly a person who doesn't understand stats

 

[Big Ben Foster]

What's the clean sheet stats for the Premier League? Would you mind checking them for me?

Testament to our defense, not our goalkeeping. You can thank Varane and Martinez for that.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

What's the clean sheet stats for the Premier League? Would you mind checking them for me?

That has absolutely nothing to do with your claim he's still a world class shot stopper

 

[Tango80]

It makes a lot of sense to keep him in some capacity next season. Bring in another guy maybe to challenge him, but leaves you with a smoother transition when you do replace him regardless.

The Pep/Joe Hart situation is a ridiculous comparison. That City side had Aguero, Silva, KDB, Toure, Fernandinho, Sterling in their side, and bought in Sane (I think Stones too I think?). They were a squad that needed minor improvements.

Same with when Liverpool got Allison - they had their front three, plus TAA/Robertson/van Dijk. Fabinho I think came at the same time? They'd just come of making the CL final. Again, minor improvements.

We're batting the top 4, have no functioning strikers, an ageing midfield and defenders that need replacing soon. You need to plan for 3 years from now, not next season.

 

[JagUTD]

Oh didn't realise the keeper is solely responsible for clean sheets, interesting.

They're not...

Glad you can see how unreliable stats can be though.

 

[Cassidy]

It makes a lot of sense to keep him in some capacity next season. Bring in another guy maybe to challenge him, but leaves you with a smoother transition when you do replace him regardless.

The Pep/Joe Hart situation is a ridiculous comparison. That City side had Aguero, Silva, KDB, Toure, Fernandinho, Sterling in their side, and bought in Sane (I think Stones too I think?). They were a squad that needed minor improvements.

Same with when Liverpool got Allison - they had their front three, plus TAA/Robertson/van Dijk. Fabinho I think came at the same time? They'd just come of making the CL final. Again, minor improvements.

We're batting the top 4, have no functioning strikers, an ageing midfield and defenders that need replacing soon. You need to plan for 3 years from now, not next season.

Indeed so take the hit and release DDG now, instead of keeping him as one of the highest paid keepers in football

 

[Cassidy]

They're not...

Glad you can see how unreliable stats can be though.

You've lost the plot. Your stats has nothing to do with shot-stopping.
You've not demonstrated their unreliability, you've demonstrated your lack of understanding

 

[led_scholes]

So we brief the media that DDG will sign a new deal of 175 k but he without guaranteed football. So we will sign a new starting GK. So this new GK will have a contract higher than DDG since he will come as our Nr 1. And then we wonder why we don't have any money. Has any of our directors studied economics?

 

[Cassidy]

So we brief the media that DDG will sign a new deal of 175 k but he without guaranteed football. So we will sign a new starting GK. So this new GK will have a contract higher than DDG since he will come as our Nr 1. And then we wonder why we don't have any money. Has any of our directors studied economics?

You have made that part up

 

[Tango80]

Indeed so take the hit and release DDG now, instead of keeping him as one of the highest paid keepers in football

So then this summer, you have to get a striker and now 2 keepers. Where does the money come from for a midfielder/RB? Does that second keeper make a bigger impact to the team than those other 2 positions?

 

[JagUTD]

You've lost the plot. Your stats has nothing to do with shot-stopping.
You've not demonstrated their unreliability, you've demonstrated your lack of understanding

To get to this conclusion, you'd have to assume that within those games where he keeps a clean sheet, he doesn't face any attempts at goal or if he does, that somehow the stats can tell the level of save he made


Neither of which are true or possible using stats.

You could show that he faces an average of 4 shots, makes 3 saves and has 15 clean sheets, therefore statistically he is making game saving saves frequently, but then again, you can't.