We would have conceded more last night had it not been for his saves
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Second own goal was impossible to save. The first one was a bad luck - the ball could have deflected differently
I suspect that perception has less to do with him stalling/regressing since and more to do with demands on goalkeepers having changed. Goalkeepers twelve years ago were typically not expected to be on the ball as often, were placed under less pressure from opposition pressing, carried less expectation to break lines with their passing, etc.
According to Sky De Gea's pass accuracy was 56% in his first season, lower than it's been in any recent season. Rather than that simply being a reflection of him actually having been less secure in his passing back then, I would think it's a sign of how different what was demanded of him was. I.E. fewer passes, fewer short passes, a higher proportion of long balls.
I pulled this graphic from another thread, but he really lacks variety in his passing range. Makes it too easy to press, his goal kicks either go short around the box or are humped long. Almost nothing in between the box and midfield, we can blame the midfielders, but let's be honest if he was capable of breaking the lines and putting the ball in there with the speed and accuracy required he'd be doing it more often.
https://theanalyst.com/eu/2023/04/david-de-gea-man-utd-replacements-costa-raya/
Compared to Costa.
It just makes it way too easy to press.
You press high he goes short to the defender, there's a lack of options, it goes back to him, it goes long, and it's easy to pen them in. Because he can't play that breaking pass into midfield.
If you force him to go long, invariably the other team wins it, because the forwards don't really like challenging for the ball in the air. And he llikes playing those high floaty balls out that make it even easier for defenders to judge and win.
Having a keeper who is a better passer and can pick out those mid range passes into midfield, creates a versatility in terms of building out, teams then have to think about pressing high, because you can pick them off in between the lines. A better long ball player and you can pick them off with longer more direct passes.
The result is you are more likely to create superiority in the build up phase, which then creates space further up the pitch for the other players in midfield and forward areas to operate and maybe string more than 3 passes together.
Which one, the one straight at him in the first half that he punched directly up in the air for another opportunity or the one that was straight at him at 2-1 that he inexplicably punched back out instead of catching?
Imo we need to upgrade keeper next season. Ideally we get the new ownership sorted in time and then can bring a GK, midfielder and striker for the first team and sort that spine out.I pulled this graphic from another thread, but he really lacks variety in his passing range. Makes it too easy to press, his goal kicks either go short around the box or are humped long. Almost nothing in between the box and midfield, we can blame the midfielders, but let's be honest if he was capable of breaking the lines and putting the ball in there with the speed and accuracy required he'd be doing it more often.
https://theanalyst.com/eu/2023/04/david-de-gea-man-utd-replacements-costa-raya/
Compared to Costa.
It just makes it way too easy to press.
You press high he goes short to the defender, there's a lack of options, it goes back to him, it goes long, and it's easy to pen them in. Because he can't play that breaking pass into midfield.
If you force him to go long, invariably the other team wins it, because the forwards don't really like challenging for the ball in the air. And he llikes playing those high floaty balls out that make it even easier for defenders to judge and win.
Having a keeper who is a better passer and can pick out those mid range passes into midfield, creates a versatility in terms of building out, teams then have to think about pressing high, because you can pick them off in between the lines. A better long ball player and you can pick them off with longer more direct passes.
The result is you are more likely to create superiority in the build up phase, which then creates space further up the pitch for the other players in midfield and forward areas to operate and maybe string more than 3 passes together.
The variety thing is Interesting. What irks me about ddg is he doesn't put the ball out wide when he boots it away, it's always down the middle where it's crowded. Out wide there is space, if it's missed, fine throw in. If it's put into play and we get it, bonus, and If opposition get it, we are in better position to deal with it.
I do think any solid keeper would or should be saving those.
But I won't put the goals or our second half on him as he was also vocal enough for the first goal for it to be dealt with before the OG.
If you're saying this was poor goalkeeping I'm sorry, but you genuinely have no clue.
the save from the header at 2 1 that was going in the bottom right corner
Where did I say that? It certainly wasn't best practice. But I'm not getting into a clueless debate with you given your previous posts in this thread.
Forgot about that in fairness - it's a save you'd expect a PL level goalkeeper to make. So that's all 3 shots on target covered then.
Have you ever just praised him without a caveat
Plenty of times. Do you go in the other player performance threads and praise them for running or playing a 5 yard square pass? Because that's the outfield player equivalent of those three stops last night; bread and butter.
You're a genuine caricature. At this point I'm not sure whether you're a wum or not.
I mentioned it as it was one of the saves that I could remember. It certainly wasn't great goalkeeping but not bad enough that I would call it an error. As I said - certainly not best practice. Why else do you think he put his hand up to apologise afterwards?
See you on Sunday, I presume you'll be on the field rimming Dave? What incredibly low standards you have for a goalkeeper if you don't consider those three stops as bread and butter goalkeeping.
You can clearly hear the shout of "away!" on the commentary, Malacia just felt like being brain dead.
Grow up mate. Seriously. Take his picture off your dart board and go get some fresh air.
Me grow up? I'm not the one using "WUM" as a real life term in 2023. You don't have a clue.
The go-to argument whenever he has a big save this season. So boring and tedious at this point.
A step up from criticizing him for knocking the ball out of play for an injured teammate I guess.
Well it's not though is it, he's made plenty of excellent saves this season - that was a pretty standard save.
You people are weird, it was clearly not just me that thought he'd randomly put it out of play - check out the United We Stand podcast if you need confirmation.
Edit: I've just gone back and watched that, it had nothing to do with the fact that Rashford up the other end of the pitch and not one of our players complained that Everton kept the ball from the throw in (which in itself should tell you all you need to know). I can now see why people thought that with the camera cutting to Rashford but he wasn't down, he was up walking around, he didn't get treatment and the ball wasn't put out of play for him, it was put out because Dave was under pressure and didn't know what else to do; so he did just randomly put it out of play.
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What's more weird is someone finding himself as one of the top posters in a PP thread and doing his absolute best to pinpoint anything, good or bad, about a player of ours every moment they get. Especially when the good moments are overlooked as "any GK could do that".
It's a bit tiresome to keep reading it, but keep cracking on. You'll be top hate-poster in the De Gea thread by the end of the season I'm sure.
sure pal, it's everyone else...Hate is a very strong word, he's not the style of goalkeeper I ever worked with but I do like the bloke and appreciate the efforts he is making to improve his all round game and do things outside of his comfort zone.
Why can't I hit the ignore button on this guy?
Well that's honest of you and fair play to admitting that.
Most here are aware where his weaknesses lie: the aerial presence and ball-playing ability of course. I would say he has improved on both in comparison to last few seasons a lot. Not to being equal with the other GKs who excel at these attributes but definitely been better.
The biggest thing is getting a GK to replace DDG, either this season or in the next few, who can bring all the attributes plus the biggest attribute that many forget about: that the GK role at United is one of the most scrutinized positions to play in world football and handling the pressure. Suggestions of the mid-table GKs are all fine and well, but there is such a big gamble bringing them in and seeing them make an impact like DDG did in the 1st half of his career, and a few seasons in between the 2nd.
That's my two cents on the transition to a new GK. I can only think of two players I feel could replace him, but unlikely we will get them anyway
He's a superman goalkeeper. He digs us out when we shouldnt be in those positions to start with. We should be dominating games. We'll never have a high line with him in goal.
idk but i feel the lack of midfield passes is almost more an indictment on the midfield than DDG. Too often i see the defenders hold on to the ball and not play the open midfield pass themselves, then slowly go back to ddg. He then doesnt have that mdfield pass himself and has the two choices of going to a FB generally or just going long. There really isnt a midfielder besides Case that can handle the passing from DDG, especially when erisken has been out.I pulled this graphic from another thread, but he really lacks variety in his passing range. Makes it too easy to press, his goal kicks either go short around the box or are humped long. Almost nothing in between the box and midfield, we can blame the midfielders, but let's be honest if he was capable of breaking the lines and putting the ball in there with the speed and accuracy required he'd be doing it more often.
https://theanalyst.com/eu/2023/04/david-de-gea-man-utd-replacements-costa-raya/
Compared to Costa.
It just makes it way too easy to press.
You press high he goes short to the defender, there's a lack of options, it goes back to him, it goes long, and it's easy to pen them in. Because he can't play that breaking pass into midfield.
If you force him to go long, invariably the other team wins it, because the forwards don't really like challenging for the ball in the air. And he llikes playing those high floaty balls out that make it even easier for defenders to judge and win.
Having a keeper who is a better passer and can pick out those mid range passes into midfield, creates a versatility in terms of building out, teams then have to think about pressing high, because you can pick them off in between the lines. A better long ball player and you can pick them off with longer more direct passes.
The result is you are more likely to create superiority in the build up phase, which then creates space further up the pitch for the other players in midfield and forward areas to operate and maybe string more than 3 passes together.
I'm sorry but @JB7 has a point about some of those saves last night. Most of them were again saves that a Premier League level goalkeeper should be expected to make, especially the header from the corner.
It really is getting to the point now where pretty much every save De Gea makes is apparently one that no other goalkeeper would be capable of making, which I'm pretty convinced is a point people are only making to counter the fact that there are lots of other important things that most other top level goalkeepers are doing that De Gea isn't.
Don't get me wrong, I do think Dave is a good shot-stopper. The difficulty of some of his saved is, however, massively exaggerated by some people.
It really is getting to the point now where pretty much every save De Gea makes is apparently one that no other goalkeeper would be capable of making, which I'm pretty convinced is a point people are only making to counter the fact that there are lots of other important things that most other top level goalkeepers are doing that De Gea isn't.
Don't get me wrong, I do think Dave is a good shot-stopper. The difficulty of some of his saved is, however, massively exaggerated by some people.
Is one of the examples the 91st minute header, just before the 2nd goal?
That was definitely his best save of the night. It was a very good one. I'm not convinced De Gea is the only goalkeeper in world football capable of making it, though.
It's gone from "any GK in the PL to make it" to "he's not the only GK in the world who can make it". Pick a lane?
First one.
I mean OK, "any goalkeeper in the Premier League" is a stretch for that particular save. But the distinction isn't that important; for De Gea to be justifying his wages he would need to be routinely making saves that practically no other goalkeeper is capable of making. I say this because he's the most highly paid goalkeeper in world football and does not excel at anything except shot stopping.
Please do feel free.
You underestimate the combination of positioning and reaction time then.
We weren't talking about his wages here, it's a simple matter of acknowledging times he does things well.
I don't agree with him being the highest paid GK. He certainly isnt the best GK in the world anymore. But it's a bit repetitive to downplay the things he does well during a game, to combine it into a narrative of he's a truly awful GK during every game, when in fact he has been very good this season.
There are some in here, I can absolutely envisage, posting on whoever the new GK will be in the future making similar saves, and praising them to high heavens.
Nothing he could have done about the goals, they are squarely on the clowns in front of him
This this this. I said it in the match thread. We go back to him far to unnecessarily at times. Just go back and watch the play after the casemiro fk from the lamela stamp. It was virtually the half way line, 3 or 4 passes later were back at de gea.
Players not getting into space quick enough and then players not passing quick or accurately enough forces us to go back to him out of necessity rather than a planned move to re set and build from the back.
Yet expect a "modern gk" to work with these guys in the 1st third.
Happily mate but from what I can see you have to be able to go on a members profile to do that and you're one of those dodgy posters who appears to hide his profile. So sadly no can do unless someone else wants to show me how.
I agree in terms of him improving on both. And I say that in terms of balls he leaves to the defenders as well as balls he does deal with, because in past there doesn't appear to have been a relationship or understanding between him and the centre backs - which has been most apparent between him & Maguire in my view. This season there is a clear understanding between Dave/Martinez/Varane that essentially he will stay at home unless he is clearly happy to deal with the ball. Of course, I would like a goalkeeper that is proactive in those situations but the better understanding has at least closed the corridor of uncertainty that existed previously where defenders would look to De Gea and he would look to them. It's simple but it's made a difference. He's trying to sweep more too, he's not comfortable with it which is clear but he is trying and has improved on last season (the issue I have there is while he's improved he's still one of the worst in the league at it which is why we have such a deep defensive line on average which impacts on so many other facets of our game).
In terms of your third paragraph, that is the common theme I see amongst posters in this thread and I do get it. Particularly given the troubles we had in the early 00s with replacing a world class goalkeeper & then again with the mentality issues around Ben Foster. The differentials here in my view are simple. Firstly, he's not a world class goalkeeper, which Schmeichel and Van Der Sar clearly were. Second, and more importantly, the level of research put into players backgrounds and mindsets are very different now. If for example United took an interest in David Raya, they wouldn't simply sign him after speaking with a couple of Brentford coaches as they may have done in the past; they would speak with the Spanish staff, they would watch back his two international appearances and appearances for Brentford in pressurised environments, they would watch back games in which he had made errors and likely the games following them too to gage how he responded to high profile mistakes, they may even go back as far as speaking with Blackburn staff about him. Clubs will build a psychological profile of signings in such pressurised positions and that's before even speaking to the player himself. And then you add in that the players themselves are considerably more conditioned from an early age nowadays than they were even 20 years ago to deal with all types of pressures, abuse, temptations and everything in between - those that can't hack it fall away earlier and earlier.
I'd stick to any PL level goalkeeper, reasons as follows; a) it's from about 9 yards out so it travels a long way, b) it's headed into the ground which took any power out of it as well as bringing it to a good height for a goalkeeper and c) he's positioned well so doesn't have to go far to make the save. I'm not trying to dumb it down I'm trying to put myself in his shoes and I think he'd be kicking himself if he let it in, which he didn't so no gripes.
He’s right though, that header was traveling fast, that he reacted quickly was credit to him because many keepers would have not
Without wanting to oversimplify it, if he literally doesn't react at all initially it hits him in the chest and he either drops on the ball or one of the three players nearest (Casemiro, Martinez, Varane iirc) put it out for another corner. As I said before, there is a reason he apologises afterwards.
Are we saying other goalkeepers have giant holes in their chests now as well?
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