[Bwuk]

Can't help myself but I really don't like it, when he starts to roam around. It did work out today and he can contribute but a different opponent will have a field day using the space in behind. He was good today but I don't see the need to have him participate in the attacking so much.

He’s better doing that, than sitting deep. Ugarte has to be the starting 6, Casemiro can compete with Mainoo to partner him.

 

[NZT-One]

He’s better doing that, than sitting deep. Ugarte has to be the starting 6, Casemiro can compete with Mainoo to partner him.

Not sure about that. I think, Casemiro struggled because he trys to do too much. On top of being a bit off the pace. Ugarte is supposed to have much more dynamism, stamina and mobility. Would be dumb to have him sit and expecting Casemiro to do the heavy leg work.

 

[Ollie Derbyshire]

Not sure about that. I think, Casemiro struggled because he trys to do too much. On top of being a bit off the pace. Ugarte is supposed to have much more dynamism, stamina and mobility. Would be dumb to have him sit and expecting Casemiro to do the heavy leg work.

Think you have it the wrong way round. We’ve brought Ugarte in to do the heavy running and cover in front of the back 4, I agree that Casemiro roams too much but he should never be the 6 covering the defence ever again.

 

[Irwin99]

We saw in the Fulham game he can create good chances when he's a bit further forward and, even though it's only Barnsley, he did it again tonight.

Feel a bit safer when he's further away from the defence; his fouls don't matter as much up the pitch.

 

[Alemar]

He played well today, but now with Ugarte, it’s clear Casemiro is a rotation player.

 

[Bwuk]

Another point to note - apparently it was him who told Rashford to give Antony the pen. Which was great to see. Try and get Antony a goal and some confidence.

 

[The_Midfielder]

His legs have gone..
He either has to play forward with a DM behind him or he has to play DM without running much..

 

[klayton88]

Another shocking start to the game. Gave the ball away and went flying in late twice within the first five minutes, he'll never learn and I've no doubt he'll see red at some point this season. Some nice touches further up the pitch but he gives me heartburn because I know he won't get back if we get countered.

 

[NZT-One]

Think you have it the wrong way round. We’ve brought Ugarte in to do the heavy running and cover in front of the back 4, I agree that Casemiro roams too much but he should never be the 6 covering the defence ever again.

I don't have it the wrong way around. I guess there can be multiple understandings or/and expectations of roles and positions and when your personal take that the sitting player is the one to do the legwork, thats fine. For me, it is the other way around. 8ish players are expected to contribute both defensively and in attack. That isn't possible when your mobility is limited (as it is the case with Casemiro). I'd be fine having Ugarte play the sole midfielder in front of the defense but then I don't see much sense to play Casemiro. Not sure where the subtone in this thread comes from that he could or should be somebody on the pitch required to contribute in attack. Can't really be just the last two games, can it? I guess, a chunk of fans who were happy to see McTominay every week despite his limitations have moved on to a comparable profile.

And thats not me shitting on the player. But how often have we seen defensive midfielders that moved further forward late in their career? If he isn't on the pitch to provide defensive qualities, then he doesn't have to be on the pitch at all. And when we want a defensive midfield based on those two, I'd hope to see Casemiro sitting while Ugarte is the one chasing and making tackles all over the pitch.

 

[Borninthe80ts]

I don't have it the wrong way around. I guess there can be multiple understandings or/and expectations of roles and positions and when your personal take that the sitting player is the one to do the legwork, thats fine. For me, it is the other way around. 8ish players are expected to contribute both defensively and in attack. That isn't possible when your mobility is limited (as it is the case with Casemiro). I'd be fine having Ugarte play the sole midfielder in front of the defense but then I don't see much sense to play Casemiro. Not sure where the subtone in this thread comes from that he could or should be somebody on the pitch required to contribute in attack. Can't really be just the last two games, can it? I guess, a chunk of fans who were happy to see McTominay every week despite his limitations have moved on to a comparable profile.

And thats not me shitting on the player. But how often have we seen defensive midfielders that moved further forward late in their career? If he isn't on the pitch to provide defensive qualities, then he doesn't have to be on the pitch at all. And when we want a defensive midfield based on those two, I'd hope to see Casemiro sitting while Ugarte is the one chasing and making tackles all over the pitch.

Just a couple thoughts on this from my perspective,

I think the rationale in people taking Casimero out of the equation for the deepest of the midfielders is that his legs are gone. We all agree on this, thus it’s how do you get the best from him?

I don’t think people are calling for him to be the main attacking midfielder or even and get forward as much as regular box to box midfielder would. However he can press effectively, gets goals and can play a good final ball.

So I can see the rationale in playing someone next to him, like Ugarte, who can break up play when we lose the ball and prevent opposition attacks. This is only in certain scenarios though, which I think are good options to have.

 

[NZT-One]

Just a couple thoughts on this from my perspective,

I think the rationale in people taking Casimero out of the equation for the deepest of the midfielders is that his legs are gone. We all agree on this, thus it’s how do you get the best from him?

I don’t think people are calling for him to be the main attacking midfielder or even and get forward as much as regular box to box midfielder would. However he can press effectively, gets goals and can play a good final ball.

So I can see the rationale in playing someone next to him, like Ugarte, who can break up play when we lose the ball and prevent opposition attacks. This is only in certain scenarios though, which I think are good options to have.

No doubt that there is some rationale in there. But "some rationale" is also in bringing Martinez into midfield. Or Shaw. Or consider JZ as a 10 when he has been a striker for his whole career. "Some rationale" isn't a very big hindrance to overcome.

Just one thing, you wrote that his legs are gone but at the same time he can press - I think, those things don't come together, don't you think?

 

[WouterWeghorst]

I don't really see him as a holding midfielder anymore. I think he'd still be able to do things in a positive way if we use him more as an option in the Eriksen mould. Great passer (Case passes more risky than Eriksen it seems) who can really open up defenses and set up counter attacks.

 

[JB08]

I don't really see him as a holding midfielder anymore. I think he'd still be able to do things in a positive way if we use him more as an option in the Eriksen mould. Great passer (Case passes more risky than Eriksen it seems) who can really open up defenses and set up counter attacks.

He doesn’t have the legs to track back from midfielder nor the ability on the ball to fashion chances on the edge of the box like Eriksen last night. I’m not sure he can be an effective 8 unless it’s an exceptionally easy home game.

 

[ErikElevenHag]

No doubt that there is some rationale in there. But "some rationale" is also in bringing Martinez into midfield. Or Shaw. Or consider JZ as a 10 when he has been a striker for his whole career. "Some rationale" isn't a very big hindrance to overcome.

Just one thing, you wrote that his legs are gone but at the same time he can press - I think, those things don't come together, don't you think?

Casemiro is still more than capable of being part of a press. What he lacks the ability to do is play as a single pivot with 2 attacking 8's which for parts of last season he was being asked to do. He doesn't have the pace and stamina to cover the ground required in a formation like that.

 

[Borninthe80ts]

No doubt that there is some rationale in there. But "some rationale" is also in bringing Martinez into midfield. Or Shaw. Or consider JZ as a 10 when he has been a striker for his whole career. "Some rationale" isn't a very big hindrance to overcome.

Just one thing, you wrote that his legs are gone but at the same time he can press - I think, those things don't come together, don't you think?

I agree but it’s more about the effectiveness and I’d wager that the idea of Casimero and Ugarte together in certain games can be more beneficial than either defender playing there. Probability over possibility so it’s going to be considered.

Also in relation to the legs, when we’re sitting, as would be the scenario when playing these two, he would be pressing in a smaller area rather than making breaks past the strikers.

I’d rather have a sitting midfielder behind Casimero when he presses the ball than a central defender.

 

[WouterWeghorst]

He doesn’t have the legs to track back from midfielder nor the ability on the ball to fashion chances on the edge of the box like Eriksen last night. I’m not sure he can be an effective 8 unless it’s an exceptionally easy home game.

I actually think he started more attacks than Eriksen did yesterday. His switching of play was great. Eriksen played further up the pitch so he maybe was involved more in the last stage of the attack, but many originated with Casemiro in my opinion.

 

[Robbo*]

I agree but it’s more about the effectiveness and I’d wager that the idea of Casimero and Ugarte together in certain games can be more beneficial than either defender playing there. Probability over possibility so it’s going to be considered.

Also in relation to the legs, when we’re sitting, as would be the scenario when playing these two, he would be pressing in a smaller area rather than making breaks past the strikers.

I’d rather have a sitting midfielder behind Casimero when he presses the ball than a central defender.

If we can get Rashford, Hojlund and Garnacho into reliable scoring form, we would probably be better off playing Ugarte, Casemiro and one of Mainoo, Mount or Bruno against stronger sides.

 

[Ollie Derbyshire]

I agree, I’d use Casemiro very sparingly, once Mount is fit and Ugarte fully settled I don’t see many minutes for him apart from subs and early cup games.

I don't have it the wrong way around. I guess there can be multiple understandings or/and expectations of roles and positions and when your personal take that the sitting player is the one to do the legwork, thats fine. For me, it is the other way around. 8ish players are expected to contribute both defensively and in attack. That isn't possible when your mobility is limited (as it is the case with Casemiro). I'd be fine having Ugarte play the sole midfielder in front of the defense but then I don't see much sense to play Casemiro. Not sure where the subtone in this thread comes from that he could or should be somebody on the pitch required to contribute in attack. Can't really be just the last two games, can it? I guess, a chunk of fans who were happy to see McTominay every week despite his limitations have moved on to a comparable profile.

And thats not me shitting on the player. But how often have we seen defensive midfielders that moved further forward late in their career? If he isn't on the pitch to provide defensive qualities, then he doesn't have to be on the pitch at all. And when we want a defensive midfield based on those two, I'd hope to see Casemiro sitting while Ugarte is the one chasing and making tackles all over the pitch.

 

[croadyman]

I agree, I’d use Casemiro very sparingly, once Mount is fit and Ugarte fully settled I don’t see many minutes for him apart from subs and early cup games.

Has Mount got the ability to play passes like him?

 

[Andersons Dietician]

He was great last night and Rashford must have been loving life as everytime Cas got the ball he was seeing the runs and popping it over. Having Ugarte gives him more protection so like people are saying at times I’m sure those two will be put in together.

Actually think the structure of the midfield was great last night, the way they moved and controlled things. They really complimented each other. Do think the structure changed when Ugarte went off and Cas and Erik went as the two sitters.

We seemed to lose control and the structure and they seemed to have more breaks against us.

 

[Borninthe80ts]

If we can get Rashford, Hojlund and Garnacho into reliable scoring form, we would probably be better off playing Ugarte, Casemiro and one of Mainoo, Mount or Bruno against stronger sides.

That’s what I can see happening potentially against as you say some of the top teams. It does depend on his levels not dropping further than they are currently though. Flip side he could dive in less and become even more effective.

 

[Ollie Derbyshire]

Has Mount got the ability to play passes like him?

Maybe not but does Casemiro have the positional sense and the body to not have to dive into tackles leaving us exposed to counters?

 

[Nobby style]

We think he'll be splitting a lot of time with Mainoo this year. He could become an extremely effective alternative 6 in his final years. His passing reaches Scholes levels at times.

 

[NZT-One]

Casemiro is still more than capable of being part of a press. What he lacks the ability to do is play as a single pivot with 2 attacking 8's which for parts of last season he was being asked to do. He doesn't have the pace and stamina to cover the ground required in a formation like that.

I agree. And thats when you say goodbye to a player and you don't go out trying to force him into your lineup because - I don't know, big name? Higher FIFA rating?

I actually think he started more attacks than Eriksen did yesterday. His switching of play was great. Eriksen played further up the pitch so he maybe was involved more in the last stage of the attack, but many originated with Casemiro in my opinion.

We played against fecking Barnsley who in addition to playing not only one but two levels below us weren't really up for it presenting us with much of a fight. It doesn't make sense to draw too steep conclusions from such a game.

Has Mount got the ability to play passes like him?

Against Barnsley he may be able to, yes. Not like Casemiro was ever known for his passing, was he? Yet still with enough time on the ball, he could deliver some passes. What makes you think, that Mount wouldn't be able to in comparable conditions?

The guy was talked about as legs gone just last season. And then one match against Barnsley and some on here consider playing him for his passing. Talk about an overreaction.