I was trying to be a bit gracious to a player who has been very good at times. 18 months is a decent stretch. But my main point was replace.
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 11
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 4
- Yellow cards
- 3
- Red cards
- 2
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
I was trying to be a bit gracious to a player who has been very good at times. 18 months is a decent stretch. But my main point was replace.
It’s true that he moans at players even when he makes a mistake, imagine how the players feel when their team mate does not take responsibility, let alone the captain of the team.
I don't read other football forums, but do other teams fans spout as much venom and bile about their own players as our fans do?
Basically, the mood on this forum is that people have gone off Bruno. Fine. He's been shit. But why are people so quick to call him a loser/bum/doesn't care after big contract etc? It happens with our players all the time on here and it's poisonous. Bruno gives it all on the pitch for us. He's had some fantastic moments for Man Utd. It's probably time we think about moving on, but do people have to be such a prick about it ?
Basically, the mood on this forum is that people have gone off Bruno. Fine. He's been shit. But why are people so quick to call him a loser/bum/doesn't care after big contract etc? It happens with our players all the time on here and it's poisonous. Bruno gives it all on the pitch for us. He's had some fantastic moments for Man Utd. It's probably time we think about moving on, but do people have to be such a prick about it ?
Maybe it is because the fecker loses the ball about 4-5 times before we hit 4 minutes of the game? All his industry is for nothing as his pass completion rate is horrendous.
Making him captain has got to be among ten Hag’s worst decisions. His petulance on the pitch and recklessness makes a complete mockery of what’s expected of a captain. Besides, if you can’t complete a 4 yard pass how’re you expected to lead the team?
Running around like a headless chicken and moaning about every single thing doesnt mean he is giving it his all on the pitch. If you fell for that “effort” then that’s on you.
Every frustrated fanbase does this kind of stuff.
I think the issue with Bruno is that the same conversation has been happening for years and people seem tired of it and ready for something new.
IMO, it would be for the best if the club moved on Bruno and Rashford for whatever price they could get next summer and let the younger attackers plus a new attacking transfer or two just sink or swim with the increased responsibility.
Bingo. Some of us have sat here for 3 years bringing up the same points about his limitations as a footballer and player (and what is the ceiling of a team that builds around someone with his flaws), and we've been shouted down upon as if Bruno was fecking Eric Cantona carrying us to league titles. Eventually people that have had that opinion are going to punch back when the chickens come home to roost and you see enough games of his where the same issues pop up over and over as he's nullified (slow, poor on the ball, not great in tight spaces, technically inconsistent, poor decision maker under pressure, tends to freelance in and out of possession too much, etc.)
If you sat for years telling people an asteroid was going to hit your town, while everyone told you you're an idiot, and then it ends up happening, you're going to tell them to feck off on the way out
It's human nature.
Before we bin Ten Hag, let's bin Bruno.
That is our captain. Enough said
2022-23:
- 28 goals and assist
- Most chances created in the PL (total and per 90)
2023-24:
- Sir Matt Busby POTY
- 28 goals and assists
- Most chances created in the PL (total and per 90)
RedCafe: "he's been shit since after the 2020-21 season"
- 28 goals and assist
- Most chances created in the PL (total and per 90)
2023-24:
- Sir Matt Busby POTY
- 28 goals and assists
- Most chances created in the PL (total and per 90)
RedCafe: "he's been shit since after the 2020-21 season"
This guy. He has just been terrible since Ronaldo joined.
We even have a higher win % without him, and that's with someone not drilled in the position
We even have a higher win % without him, and that's with someone not drilled in the position
To me2022-23:
- 28 goals and assist
- Most chances created in the PL (total and per 90)
2023-24:
- Sir Matt Busby POTY
- 28 goals and assists
- Most chances created in the PL (total and per 90)
RedCafe: "he's been shit since after the 2020-21 season"
To you
See Valencia shin crosses a few posts up.
And around and around we go
I’m with shin crosses
Bruno is the embodiment of Russell Westbrook but just in footy instead of basketball. Will put up insane numbers, but theres a reason teams wont win big with him. Westbrook literally was averaging triple doubles for the season, which was unheard of. It was something that was done a couple times before in the whole history of the league. Westbrook did it for multiple seasons. He has zero titles to show for it and bounced around various teams.2022-23:
- 28 goals and assist
- Most chances created in the PL (total and per 90)
2023-24:
- Sir Matt Busby POTY
- 28 goals and assists
- Most chances created in the PL (total and per 90)
RedCafe: "he's been shit since after the 2020-21 season"
It is the same problem with bruno. Instead of spraying the ball around the court, losing it constantly and causing mayhem everywhere- it is bruno doing that on the pitch. His stats will generally end up with decently good final numbers, but will be a complete detriment to the team. He will lose the ball constantly, provide no stability/control to the flow of the game, and will result in more absolute mayhem. We can argue about his effort he puts forth and his ability to stay healthy and fit for games, but his attitude also turns off teammates as well as fans.
He's ran all around the pitch for 90 mins every week to give the illusion of "effort" then has he? Fair fecks to him then, I've fallen for it.
Lot of players run around the pitch for 90 minutes. It doesn’t equate to them putting in a good effort. You only need to look at what he does during those 90 minutes. The amount of misplaced passes and the amount of times he gives the ball away is shockingly high. You wouldn’t see KDB doing that cause he is actually quality.
Don't! You'll attract the pass completion % stat quoters, who believe that Bruno and KDB have comparable decision making because KDB doesn't have 90% pass accuracy.
Pass accuracy and Chance creation has to be one of the most useless stat i have ever seen.
A simple eye test would instantly tell you comparable pass completion percentage of KDB and Bruno are not comparable. Same for chance creation. KDB touch and movement is way superior.
It was always funny how Bruno was compared to KDB using stats. Its almost as if people just see stats and dont watch games
I'm not sure what we do in training but our press isn't up to much either so wouldn't like to think we're spending all day every day trying to perfect it
I absolutely agree with all your points on Bruno and have raised similar concerns in seasons gone by! He's been a perennial problem for us when attempting to control games...if we're being brutally honest he's a luxury player we can ill-afford at present!
As you say, no issues with losing the ball when he's trying to conjure an opportunity from nothing but he's often scruffy in possession and also lacks positional awareness out of possession.
Yet he's our talisman, arguably still riding off 12 months of unsustainable output some 4 seasons previous?
Thinking Bruno was anywhere near good enough in 23/24 is a pretty wild opinion. He was great for the last two months. I implore you to read through the threadmarks for his performances in that season if you're genuinely putting it down as a good season. Ronaldo got similar numbers for us in terms of GA in 21/22 and he was widely regarded as being a bit crap that season. I don't care how many GA a player gets individually if I feel they're limiting the team in some way or another. It's completely possible for a player, particularly a selfish one, to suck up the GA output of a team. It's just difficult explaining to some people why even assists can be selfish, but if a player is favouring low percentage passes that might result in an assist 10% of the time over higher percentage passes that might result in a teammate getting an assist 30% of time time, I think opting for the former is selfishness2022-23:
- 28 goals and assist
- Most chances created in the PL (total and per 90)
2023-24:
- Sir Matt Busby POTY
- 28 goals and assists
- Most chances created in the PL (total and per 90)
RedCafe: "he's been shit since after the 2020-21 season"
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Rawkish imo.
If you can watch the replay then watch just about couple of mins from the beginning. Spurs had the ball on their left. Bruno was there. Spurs player pass the ball back to other player or gk, I don't remember exactly, then they passed to a player to far right of their pitch. Bruno dutifully ran like a dog chases his stick. To the playe, to the gk, to the player at right. From one edge of the pitch to another perhaps screaming mine mine mine
That's not effort. That's headless chicken aimlessly running all over the pitch. And he is our captain, and ETH is okay with this.
Will the red in the last game counted as violent conduct? Any news on if we are going to appeal it?
We better not appeal it
When did I say anything about his quality or misplaced passes? I said he leaves it all on the pitch. I said he puts in the effort. I didn't even say good effort. The only thing is was driving at is that he didn't deserve the name calling. Feels a bit low.
This is the perfect summary of Bruno. He’s one of the most self indulgent players I can remember watching. I genuinely hate watching him play football.
True. Stats like assist or chances created are to be studied with larger context and not in isolation. Especially when the team is struggling to create goals and have GD in single digit over a season then hard critical analytical questions need to be asked. A player alone stacking up assists could be a silver lining...or he could be actually holding the entire team back by trying to single handedly "create" something each time he receives the ball, rather than enabling the team to create chances from different avenues.
You are not winning that appeal, even if we do it. It means that the referee made a mistake. Good luck with that. There were elements for a red card, but the ref decided not to take the fact that Bruno slipped into question and that there wasn't enough force in the tackle to hurt an opponent. Not sure if the rule is still in play, if you appeal it, and you lose it, the player gets one more game added to the initial 3.
Feels like people think he either sucks hard or is the #1 still. I think he's still good but basically the type of luxury player this team cannot afford right now, plus it gets hard to justify his role in the team.
It's the same with players like Ronaldo and even Messi. Sure in MLS and to lesser extent Saudi League it's all good enough to carry you out the mud, and in some case Bruno even did just that.
But those players also showed that even the best two players in the world cannot carry a team to the top in leagues like the Premier League and LaLiga - and even Ligue1.
How can you play such a "star" type if you need so much consistency in a league like this, but also in a squad that lacks foundation?
Ignoring his level, it just seems like you're holding yourself back if you want to build a new future for this club - and one with a regained consistency at that.
Yes, Ronaldo will score some great goals, Messi will too, and even Bruno will occasionally, but when they fail or aren't reached in their element... what is their real use?
Mainoo is a great talent, but is this midfield of Xavi-Iniesta-Busquets/Yaya level? Or do we have the players to do much of the dirty work and playmaking in their stead like Scholes, Giggs, Carrick, Rooney in his stead? Or a Modric-Kroos-(Peak)Casemiro for that matter? And that is to be able to actually have a much better luxury player bringing you actual luxury.
Sure he runs and he has his passes and shots, but he also starts so many counters, leaves you with a 2-man (and unripened one at that) midfield for much and many of the games. If you don't play him as striker or instead of another (underperforming) luxury player like Rashford, why would you sacrifice an actual midfield to play a luxury player you cannot afford? In this sense I'd rather keep Rashford, Amad, Garnacho and possibly even Antony as wingers since they seem to more clearly stick to the plan and their roles, and to Zirkzee as someone who is more reliable in connection play up front.
I don't think Bruno is a bad player at all, but I honestly don't see why you would have him as a starter in an inexperienced squad that is desperate for better possession-keeping capabilities. Unless he plays like an actual midfielder with positional discipline, and one with more composure in his passing when needed, Bruno will kill any trainer's career if they wish to implement some build up play, or any consistency whatsoever.
ETH is just as much to blame for this all not working and continuing to play Bruno as a midfielder when he shows again and again that he's not reliable as one of 3 there. Let alone to make his responsibility (and the accompanying dependency on him) even bigger than it already was. After all this time and the new contract, and the way ETH manages teams (like he did before with 'leaders' like Tadic and such) - I don't see him digging himself out of this hole without digging one for Bruno. I don't think Bruno is the type to accept a demotion. Hope I'm wrong.
It's the same with players like Ronaldo and even Messi. Sure in MLS and to lesser extent Saudi League it's all good enough to carry you out the mud, and in some case Bruno even did just that.
But those players also showed that even the best two players in the world cannot carry a team to the top in leagues like the Premier League and LaLiga - and even Ligue1.
How can you play such a "star" type if you need so much consistency in a league like this, but also in a squad that lacks foundation?
Ignoring his level, it just seems like you're holding yourself back if you want to build a new future for this club - and one with a regained consistency at that.
Yes, Ronaldo will score some great goals, Messi will too, and even Bruno will occasionally, but when they fail or aren't reached in their element... what is their real use?
Mainoo is a great talent, but is this midfield of Xavi-Iniesta-Busquets/Yaya level? Or do we have the players to do much of the dirty work and playmaking in their stead like Scholes, Giggs, Carrick, Rooney in his stead? Or a Modric-Kroos-(Peak)Casemiro for that matter? And that is to be able to actually have a much better luxury player bringing you actual luxury.
Sure he runs and he has his passes and shots, but he also starts so many counters, leaves you with a 2-man (and unripened one at that) midfield for much and many of the games. If you don't play him as striker or instead of another (underperforming) luxury player like Rashford, why would you sacrifice an actual midfield to play a luxury player you cannot afford? In this sense I'd rather keep Rashford, Amad, Garnacho and possibly even Antony as wingers since they seem to more clearly stick to the plan and their roles, and to Zirkzee as someone who is more reliable in connection play up front.
I don't think Bruno is a bad player at all, but I honestly don't see why you would have him as a starter in an inexperienced squad that is desperate for better possession-keeping capabilities. Unless he plays like an actual midfielder with positional discipline, and one with more composure in his passing when needed, Bruno will kill any trainer's career if they wish to implement some build up play, or any consistency whatsoever.
ETH is just as much to blame for this all not working and continuing to play Bruno as a midfielder when he shows again and again that he's not reliable as one of 3 there. Let alone to make his responsibility (and the accompanying dependency on him) even bigger than it already was. After all this time and the new contract, and the way ETH manages teams (like he did before with 'leaders' like Tadic and such) - I don't see him digging himself out of this hole without digging one for Bruno. I don't think Bruno is the type to accept a demotion. Hope I'm wrong.
Just to add…how often have we seen teams better players leave only for said team to have a marked improvement. Two that spring to mind…
RVN was an absolute goal machine for us and unlike Bruno, I loved him for it. But we arguably played much better after he left
Similarly Rooney Everton’s main man in 03/04. They became reliant on him during relegation threatened season. He joins Utd and Everton had more secure seasons ahead
The point being…take Bruno out the team and either a) others step up and take on the role of provider/goal scorer b) we just play better without him or ideally c) both a and b happen
This club has survived ‘losing’ far better players than Bruno
Bruno is a 10 in an era with no 10s. If he played at City he would be one of their inverted wingers, not one of their midfielders. And he would be dropped and moved on quickly if he treated the ball, and possession, with the same lack of care he does here.
He's had a poor start to the season, and too much reliance is placed upon him for our attacking game, but my word some of the comments in here are absurdly over the top.
Just like the beginning of last season, poor.
It all went wrong when he was appointed captain
Yeah this narrative is ridiculous from some people who hate him. I wish to god that the likes of Luke Shaw or Rashford-two of our most senior players and who should be leaders of this squad- had that level of consistency in terms of appearances or stats.2022-23:
- 28 goals and assist
- Most chances created in the PL (total and per 90)
2023-24:
- Sir Matt Busby POTY
- 28 goals and assists
- Most chances created in the PL (total and per 90)
RedCafe: "he's been shit since after the 2020-21 season"
You can 100% argue that he suits a certain type of football and that we should be moving away from that, I think that's a very valid point, you can argue that he loses possession too much and harms the team in that way but you look at the stats season after season and have to admit he's consistent at doing what he was bought to do.
Imagine if we had a starting XI where every player did their most important task at the same level while also remaining fit. We'd be title challengers.
The issue is he completely fails at his most important task; playing winning football that controls and dominates games. No team can compensate for its captain and creator giving the ball away with speculative passes constantly.
It's impossible to dominate a game when even the most basic pass can be completely scuffed by your supposedly most creative player.
This is not conducive to winning football. As has been said by me and others before, he is the Westbrook of football; racks up individual stats, but will never win leagues, and teams look inexplicably better when he leaves.
This will break some hearts, but it’s been rightly ruled as a wrongful dismissal.
Ban overturned
Bruno Fernandes has it overturned yet VAR could not over turn during the actual game? How is this not a sign of corruption?
I believe Fernandes should still be dropped from the team for a while. This news has not changed anything. He has been dreadful
I believe Fernandes should still be dropped from the team for a while. This news has not changed anything. He has been dreadful