Casemiro lost the ball for the 1st. Insane to blame Bruno.fecking hell what an agenda. It would be just as accurate to say “Bruno played in the match these two goals were scored”. That’s some proper butterfly effect bullshit right there considering how many other player mistakes happened after his last touch.
EDIT - I’ve watch it again and actually laughing out loud at the idea that those goals are unironically being blamed on Bruno.
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 40
- Goals
- 9
- Assists
- 14
- Yellow cards
- 8
- Red cards
- 3
It is a push for the first goal, I mean, it took a set piece in between for the ball to end up in our net. And in the 2nd clip, we should be able to defend it better but still, we concede possession for a low percentage pass (lets not talk about how 2 seconds later he looks like a schoolboy against somethings thats barely a dropped shoulder). Of course we have to defend better and do more in attack but nothing of that changes the fact that those are cheap losses of possession. And they are a constant in Brunos game. And when shit hits the fan and the team is under pressure, those tendencies get worse. We aren't a great side that will just easily win it back, this should make us more cautious and I can't believe that any* manager we had wanted our core attacking principle to be hit & hope.
edit: at least not the last two
People call our fan base toxic, I think it’s more accurate to call it fecking stupid.
Bruno is class, he’s not perfect and is sometimes guilty of trying to force things, but the idea that he is the problem is so, so fecking mental.
Still our best player by a mile.
Being the best does not mean you cannot be the problem. The problem is there is no better player to rotate with Bruno when he clearly is not having his day. All player positions has been shift at least once except Bruno's. It's time to get at least a player that can compete with him. City is going towards the same issues. Rodri gone, KDB is out of form, and suddenly the whole team is a disaster and Pep is a fraud.
That doesn't make Bruno a problem, mate. That means when he's gone we have no one else to pick up the slack.
This. The last 12 years have really taught me that, the collective IQ has dropped significantly.
In this case I think we're being hit with 3 things at the same time:
1. People have always been mental, but everyone being online has given all the mental people a megaphone.
2. As a fanbase, particularly then ones younger than 50, we got too accustomed to winning. We're still in the shock stage, but now with online forums to vent on.
3. The "nerdification" of football, spearheaded by the School of Pep. There are some fans that are incredibly inflexible when it comes to how football should be played. They want to destroy almost any form of risk and they don't tolerate mistakes. A player like Bruno will of course not be popular among these spectators. What they fail to realise though is that a large portion of Bruno's mistakes happen directly or indirectly because he's playing for a poor team. He's been given far too many tasks and this is why he also has far more touches per 90 minutes than the likes of De Bruyne, Ødegaard and Palmer. Those 3 can play as a part of a collective (although Palmer has been a bit of a one-man army), whereas Bruno has to be the heart, brain and body of the team. That is not healthy regardless of how good you are. No one can deal with that.
Hit the nail on the head. It's still baffling that you get fans wanting him sold.
I don't think it's "baffling" at all even if you disagree, at least from someone like me that's thought the idea of selling him should have been explored for a bit now (2-3 years). I don't have this opinion that he's shite or a waste or any other over emotional thing you might here from a detractor. I've just always thought he lacks some vital attributes that hinder his teams enough to where he might never be the focal point of a top side. Doesn't mean he's not incredibly productive, or a world class creator etc.
It is entirely fair to still wonder where he fits in position wise. Think next season he needs to be severely limited in the deeper CM spot he has been put in too much this season. In a game we are chasing where they are sitting back and in overall control he can be fine. But with anything in the balance he just is too much of a defensive liability in there.
What exactly is outrageous? Arent we witnessing the same sad state of the club? What in the last few years makes you think, that any of our players has proven to be top drawer. The side was a dysfunctional mess after Mourinho and stayed exactly that. Bruno contribution led to us keeping afloat a little longer even though more and more people realized that this way of playing is something, that sets us up at a massive disadvantage against our rivals. I can only repeat the question I never get an answer for: what team has a player with Brunos skillset in the lead role in their attack? An attacking midfielder who while being able to make great passes, isn't great in terms of risk assessment and is absolutely below average in terms of ball control, dribbling and quick feet. Or, given that the has this deficiencies is additional weak and therefor incapable of holding onto the ball while pressing.
I don't know any player like that. And for all the greatness he is celebrated around here, there are so many teams around that haven't got any such player yet are still way more productive in attack than us.
Yeah, imagine that. We might even fall down the table to 14th or 15th. That would be terrible.
For sure. Also the ability to handle different opinions.
Applies to his fanboys as well.
I mean, who doesn't like a good shift with the goal posts. The discussion is about how good of a player Bruno is and how we can get the best out of the team with him it.
Yeah stating that a player is weak, tends to rush play and is losing the ball often surely has to do with Pep. No other explanation possible.
Got it. The team is good enough for him to get praised for assists, chances created and keypasses but for the not so good stuff, thats on them.
Exactly. And the core critic of Bruno is that we have to move to a way of playing that exerts more control, better organisation, less chaos and better structure. When the team and Bruno produce a performance along such lines, like against Liverpool, he deservedly gets praised.
No. You wrote it is about the player. I think it is about you and being triggered when people voice things that you consider not right. (No criticism for it, same thing for me)
fair enough
I think it is odd to try to excuse Brunos bad performances "because of his team mates" when you at the other hand praise him for keypasses, assists and chances created. Not like he does that without the team neither.
Fair enough. Some pretty generous wording but you are a fanboy after all.
This is probably the only thing, we should really discuss on here. I think, his "positives" are overstated to a degree but denying them is unconstructive. His positives though, happen in an environment that I and a few others on here would have wanted to ditch a long time ago but the club didn't because it still worked out somehow. The whole thing should have broken earlier and we could be way further in the evolution than we are now. Sitting with a squad that has no attacking plan other than give it to Bruno and then run into space.
Sorry pal, I know you didn't mean it nastily but you don't know me, so I'd rather you skip the Psych101 analysis. I think we're likely to go around in circles on this for years, until he declines to a point where you're actually correct about him, so I'm going to leave it there (for now, we both know I'll eventually return!)No. You wrote it is about the player. I think it is about you and being triggered when people voice things that you consider not right. (No criticism for it, same thing for me)
fair enough
I think it is odd to try to excuse Brunos bad performances "because of his team mates" when you at the other hand praise him for keypasses, assists and chances created. Not like he does that without the team neither.
Fair enough. Some pretty generous wording but you are a fanboy after all.
This is probably the only thing, we should really discuss on here. I think, his "positives" are overstated to a degree but denying them is unconstructive. His positives though, happen in an environment that I and a few others on here would have wanted to ditch a long time ago but the club didn't because it still worked out somehow. The whole thing should have broken earlier and we could be way further in the evolution than we are now. Sitting with a squad that has no attacking plan other than give it to Bruno and then run into space.
I don't think he's thee problem, but I think we can get a better player in. He's 31 now? He's so hot and cold. Scores a brilliant free kick against Everton, then ends up giving the ball away that led to the almost penalty. Its unfortunate that he's wasting his career away here. He would be much better on at another club.
At the risk of sounding like an owl, who?
Thats the wrong mindset. Evaluating players simply by good or bad isn't going to get us anywhere. We need to use these-days-methods and look for profiles and skillsets that are needed for specific systems to work in. Its completely futile to box ourselves in because "there is no one better than Bruno", it isn't going to get us anywhere. You think, there is no player who could play in central midfield, provide more steel there, comparable passing ability (mind, doesn't have to be so many hollywood balls from the middle of the park) and offers more ability to evade pressure? Of course those players are out there. Same might be true for the 10 spots, from what we are seeing, Amorim doesn't seem to find a way to make good use of Bruno there, given those roles for him require being rather pacey and good on the ball. Bruno certainly isn't a fantastic fit if those are the requirements. None of that makes him a bad player but if one honestly thinks, we have to stick to players because there is no one better, while the clubs results (and underlying team numbers) spiral downwards is, we'll never get out of the misery. Always crying out for "good players" while not understanding what environment made them good in their former teams.
Plays better when we have a Eriksen/creative #8 on the pitch.
Go on then, use your "these-days-methods"(wtf?) and give me a player who contributes as much as Bruno does. It is fecking mental to point at him and say it's his fault we are where we are or that we will be a better team without him. Bruno needs some good players around him for once instead of having to do it all on his own.
I don't believe in this "system above all" nonsense.
I firmly believe that a good player can and will thrive in any system. Of course players will have preferences. Of course there will be systems that are slightly better suited for them. But a good player will always be good if he plays for a good team that doesn't hold him back. In the few instances where it doesn't work out it's most likely an attitude problem or off-pitch issues (Zlatan in Barcelona being the first example I can think of).
Pep and Klopp have different styles, but I can guarantee that they would both do great even if you "scrambled" their teams by giving Klopp half the City players and vice versa. And the same is true for Ancelotti and Flick now.
I firmly believe that a good player can and will thrive in any system. Of course players will have preferences. Of course there will be systems that are slightly better suited for them. But a good player will always be good if he plays for a good team that doesn't hold him back. In the few instances where it doesn't work out it's most likely an attitude problem or off-pitch issues (Zlatan in Barcelona being the first example I can think of).
Pep and Klopp have different styles, but I can guarantee that they would both do great even if you "scrambled" their teams by giving Klopp half the City players and vice versa. And the same is true for Ancelotti and Flick now.
There are several attacking midfielders in the league that contributes equally as much or more than Bruno from an offensive output point of view. I do not think anyone is blaming him for where we are - that would be silly - but he is a part of a team where every player is upgradable including himself. He isn't the same player he was a few years ago, but he has still got that passion which is nice to see, and still works incredibly hard for the team. He is not a one-man team, but he is one of our very few creative players, especially now that Martinez and Amad are injured. However, the idea of building a team around a player who turns 31 shortly after the next season is not a very good idea, and it may not be long before he regresses very hard like Rooney, van Persie or de Bruyne.
What the feck does “building a team around him” even mean?! He’s a good player, who can play a couple of different positions and will look a lot better when we add more good players to the squad. Up until the point he is no longer good. But we haven’t reached that point yet. It’s really that simple. I will never understand this newfound obsession that online football fans have of making a very simple sport stupidly complicated.
We might as well start recruiting math nerds who have never kicked a ball in their life. Surely they will get it. Mathletes > athletes.
I can only assume all the "building a team around him" nonsense comes from trying to square the circle of being unable to ignore how important he is to everything good we do while also being determined to blame him for the team as a whole being crap. We can obviously only dream of what a United team might look like with a pair of top class CMs and an Isak/Kane quality striker leading the line but you can bet your arse that the building a team around Bruno complaints would dry up pretty damn quick.
It's a the same logical fallacy often seen with conspiracy theorists.
"Ok, but what if this obviously good player actually is a problem? And only I and a handful of other individuals are the first to notice? Holy shit, we're smart for noticing this. Wake up, sheeple!"
Who?
You're just making things up now, aren't you? Even when you look at the attacking midfielders for teams at the top of the table: Szoboszlai, Odegaard, Foden, Gibbs-White, they all have fewer goal contributions than Bruno this season.
Bruno is clearly a talented footballer with some strong attributes that enable him to score, assist and do ‘things’ that not too many others might be able to see on a football pitch
But the frustration remains and is constant. He flip flops, frequently in the same game even, from sublime, to an absolute mess.
Let’s hope Jekyll doesn’t ’dress’ tonight and we see a bit more Hyde
But the frustration remains and is constant. He flip flops, frequently in the same game even, from sublime, to an absolute mess.
Let’s hope Jekyll doesn’t ’dress’ tonight and we see a bit more Hyde
My issue with Bruno is that I am never sure if he is part of the problem or one of the only good things at the club.
Sometimes I think he is part of the problem because we cede a lot of control with him in the side. The other part of me thinks that he is all over the place sometimes because he is the only way the team has any quality or danger to it. Would be interesting to see him in the middle of a quality club side.
Sometimes I think he is part of the problem because we cede a lot of control with him in the side. The other part of me thinks that he is all over the place sometimes because he is the only way the team has any quality or danger to it. Would be interesting to see him in the middle of a quality club side.
Man Utd 3:2 Ipswich
New
Put in a hell of a shift.
Thank Christ this man is at our club. I dread to think where we'd be without him...
What a fecking trooper. Captain marvel.
He is carrying us.
Hell of a performance.
Deserves a pint or two after that.
Deserves a pint or two after that.
Big performance from a big player.
Don’t think I’ve ever seen a footballer with a better engine.
Not a CM but his fitness is excellent.
Wish we could see him in a better squad for us.
Was that one or two assists for The Problem? MOTM either way of course.
Loved that block followed by an 70 yard run with the ball.
Loved that block followed by an 70 yard run with the ball.