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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

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The absolute fecking state of this country. A tiny litter of angry gammon blocking an ambulance in a pathetic attempt to protest Europe by copying a European protest.

I’m embarrassed I come from the same rough general land mass as these people.

Though you’d be hard pressed for a better metaphor for a Hard Brexit than a bunch of short sighted angry ideologues, blissfully unconcerned with their effect on our basic social services as long as they get to feel shouty and important.

 
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Mockney said:
The absolute fecking state of this country. A tiny litter of angry gammon blocking an ambulance in a pathetic attempt to protest Europe by copying a European protest.

I’m embarrassed I come from the same rough general land mass as these people.

Though you’d be hard pressed for a better metaphor for a Hard Brexit than a bunch of short sighted angry ideologues, blissfully unconcerned with their effect on our basic social services as long as they get to feel shouty and important.

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Not to mention that they don't care about hurting people as long as they get to shout "geronwivit". I sincerely hope delaying the ambulance didn't cause additional harm to whoever was in it or needed help from it.
 
Mockney said:
The absolute fecking state of this country. A tiny litter of angry gammon blocking an ambulance in a pathetic attempt to protest Europe by copying a European protest.

I’m embarrassed I come from the same rough general land mass as these people.

Though you’d be hard pressed for a better metaphor for a Hard Brexit than a bunch of short sighted angry ideologues, blissfully unconcerned with their effect on our basic social services as long as they get to feel shouty and important.

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Dispersed in minutes, tried it somewhere else, all gone home within an hour. Looks like the whole stunt has backfired on them and has damaged Leave.EU's message more than helped.
 
Don Alfredo said:


That is hilarious
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But Sajid David has taken into account the collapse of sterling after Brexit, so in todays terms it's the equivalent of a tenner a week - after brexit people's pay will no longer be transferred to their bank account but provided in wheelbarrows.
The advantage is that wheelbarrow manufacturing will soar.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
But Sajid David has taken into account the collapse of sterling after Brexit, so in todays terms it's the equivalent of a tenner a week - after brexit people's pay will no longer be transferred to their bank account but provided in wheelbarrows.
The advantage is that wheelbarrow manufacturing will soar.
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British wheelbarrows for British people
 
Mockney said:
The absolute fecking state of this country. A tiny litter of angry gammon blocking an ambulance in a pathetic attempt to protest Europe by copying a European protest.

I’m embarrassed I come from the same rough general land mass as these people.

Though you’d be hard pressed for a better metaphor for a Hard Brexit than a bunch of short sighted angry ideologues, blissfully unconcerned with their effect on our basic social services as long as they get to feel shouty and important.

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Those yellow vests are very European. It's what you are required to keep in your car, in France, to wear if you break down on the motorway.

We hate Europe so much, we are copying them.

Oh the irony.
 
Sassy Colin said:
Those yellow vests are very European. It's what you are required to keep in your car, in France, to wear if you break down on the motorway.

We hate Europe so much, we are copying them.

Oh the irony.
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Plus I’m pretty sure (though more educated guessing in fairness) that their modern ubiquitousness is a consequence of early successful health and safety regulation. The same kind of “boring” restrictive rights based over reach, many of these “sovereignty!” obsessed walking sunburns would grumble about being imposed on us these days.

Also, a really good way of jibbing into a festival, by the by.
 
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On the plus side, we now know there are at least 56 idiots we can convince to eat rat poison by telling them it's 'Albion Fuel'
 
The language this morning seems to be spinning the inevitable amendments to the withdrawal deal as a government idea rather than a loss
 
See Theresa May is urging MPs not to ask for a second referendum as this will "Break faith with the British people":

“Let us not break faith with the British people by trying to stage another referendum,” the prime minister will tell MPs. “Another vote which would do irreparable damage to the integrity of our politics, because it would say to millions who trusted in democracy, that our democracy does not deliver. Another vote which would likely leave us no further forward than the last.”

I think this would be a fair point IF she (or anyone) could deliver the BREXIT that most people were promised before they voted; the one most rational (non-racist) people based their decision on that would make everyone better off, plow £350m a week back into the NHS, restrict immigration but not trade, blah-blah-blah BUT that was a lie!

Following that lie unquestioningly to it's bitter end is where democracy betrayed the people of Britain … not someone saying "now you have seen a fraction of what a real BREXIT might look like how do you all feel now?"

Surely, if people have adjusted their opinions given the established reality, allowing them to voice that before it's too late is the very embodiment of democracy at work?
 
SqueakyWeasel said:
See Theresa May is urging MPs not to ask for a second referendum as this will "Break faith with the British people":

“Let us not break faith with the British people by trying to stage another referendum,” the prime minister will tell MPs. “Another vote which would do irreparable damage to the integrity of our politics, because it would say to millions who trusted in democracy, that our democracy does not deliver. Another vote which would likely leave us no further forward than the last.”

I think this would be a fair point IF she (or anyone) could deliver the BREXIT that most people were promised before they voted; the one most rational (non-racist) people based their decision on that would make everyone better off, plow £350m a week back into the NHS, restrict immigration but not trade, blah-blah-blah BUT that was a lie!

Following that lie unquestioningly to it's bitter end is where democracy betrayed the people of Britain … not someone saying "now you have seen a fraction of what a real BREXIT might look like how do you all feel now?"

Surely, if people have adjusted their opinions given the established reality, allowing them to voice that before it's too late is the very embodiment of democracy at work?
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I don’t think May believes any of that guff. It’s more the case that a second referendum may lead to the break up of the Conservative Party and she doesn’t want that happening on her watch.
 
MoskvaRed said:
I don’t think May believes any of that guff. It’s more the case that a second referendum may lead to the break up of the Conservative Party and she doesn’t want that happening on her watch.
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If there's one thing that the british people don't want it's the conservative party breaking up.
The economy isn't worth that. Nice to see tory politicians putting the peoples interests first as usual
 
17Larsson said:
If there was another referendum and the majority wanted to remain how is that undemocratic? By listening too much to the people?
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I think the problem is if the vote is 52% remain to 48% leave or close , if another referendum happened at the vote was as close as the last vote but the other way I honestly think we'd see riots and I'd fear for the safety of anyone who isn't a white British national.

I just think we should leave but still be in the EEC and allow free movement of people, yeah hardline brexiters would be up in arms but so what, they're a minority.
 
Thunderhead said:
I think the problem is if the vote is 52% remain to 48% leave or close , if another referendum happened at the vote was as close as the last vote but the other way I honestly think we'd see riots and I'd fear for the safety of anyone who isn't a white British national.

I just think we should leave but still be in the EEC and allow free movement of people, yeah hardline brexiters would be up in arms but so what, they're a minority.
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If a mini-riot like the bradford riots are the price to pay then bring it on. It would only be the EDL types, you arrest them and move on.

We can't proceed with two situations that no majority wants (deal and no deal) because of the ill thought out principle that a referendum mandate is absolute with no end date. Or because the Tories and May don't want their reputation tarnished.
 
hobbers said:
Obviously it's undemocratic to call referendums for things when the result is then not adhered to. You can desperately want to stay in the EU and that's sensible and fine but you can't deny that going back to the public with a referendum whenever you dont like the current result makes a mockery of referendums, and will completely erode the public faith in them.

A second referendum would likely end in another near-stalemate. Except it wouldn't because they'd probably spend months arguing over the number of options (what happens if the new result is 20% leave with no deal, 31% leave with May's deal, 49% remain... for instance??) and all in all would be a massive time sink.

Even if there were just two options and it ended 51% for remain what do people honestly think would happen? Like you can't be naive enough to think there wouldn't be total and utter chaos. Could you deny the Brexiters if they said the result wasn't strong enough? Any government would be forced into a yet another "deciding" Brexit vote within one or two years.
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Utter bollocks, the views of a country change it's not undemocratic to check whether that's the case especially given what was voted on hasn't been delivered. That's how our political system works. I wouldn't be against another referendum in 10 years but it would need to be on the same deal.

And yes 51% would obviously be enough and would pass parliament immediately.
 
hobbers said:
Obviously it's undemocratic to call referendums for things when the result is then not adhered to. You can desperately want to stay in the EU and that's sensible and fine but you can't deny that going back to the public with a referendum whenever you dont like the current result makes a mockery of referendums, and will completely erode the public faith in them.

A second referendum would likely end in another near-stalemate. Except it wouldn't because they'd probably spend months arguing over the number of options (what happens if the new result is 20% leave with no deal, 31% leave with May's deal, 49% remain... for instance??) and all in all would be a massive time sink.

Even if there were just two options and it ended 51% for remain what do people honestly think would happen? Like you can't be naive enough to think there wouldn't be total and utter chaos. Could you deny the Brexiters if they said the result wasn't strong enough? Any government would be forced into a yet another "deciding" Brexit vote within one or two years.
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No-one is suggesting that the vote be retaken until it suits a certain outcome. that is ridiculous. You are simply trying to gee up righteous indignation where there is none to be had.

The country were told basic lies and went to the polls and based their votes upon the "facts" given to them by trusted experts. Now it is patently obvious that they were misled and that the only possible options for BREXIT in no way or form resemble the one they were asked to vote for in 2016 (as that is impossible to deliver) a large proportion of rational leave voters are rightly unhappy and feel that democracy has let them down.

Giving them a chance to inform the government how they feel now the facts have come to light is certainly not undemocratic.
 
hobbers said:
Obviously it's undemocratic to call referendums for things when the result is then not adhered to. You can desperately want to stay in the EU and that's sensible and fine but you can't deny that going back to the public with a referendum whenever you dont like the current result makes a mockery of referendums, and will completely erode the public faith in them.

A second referendum would likely end in another near-stalemate. Except it wouldn't because they'd probably spend months arguing over the number of options (what happens if the new result is 20% leave with no deal, 31% leave with May's deal, 49% remain... for instance??) and all in all would be a massive time sink.

Even if there were just two options and it ended 51% for remain what do people honestly think would happen? Like you can't be naive enough to think there wouldn't be total and utter chaos. Could you deny the Brexiters if they said the result wasn't strong enough? Any government would be forced into a yet another "deciding" Brexit vote within one or two years.
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Lets be honest the original referendum result wasn't strong enough to justify such a massive decision that would cause so much upheaval. How many idiots voted in protest at the government in 2016 that could have swung the vote to leave?

Any referendum of that magnitude should have needed at least a 60% threshold to pass.
 
Smores said:
If a mini-riot like the bradford riots are the price to pay then bring it on. It would only be the EDL types, you arrest them and move on.

We can't proceed with two situations that no majority wants (deal and no deal) because of the ill thought out principle that a referendum mandate is absolute with no end date. Or because the Tories and May don't want their reputation tarnished.
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I think it would be far more than mini riots.

We've had a referendum, lets go with the least worst option that suits both sides, there has to be compromise now, May kowtowing to the hard brexiteers in the Tory party is doing nobody any good, just tell them to eff off.
 
Thunderhead said:
I think it would be far more than mini riots.

We've had a referendum, lets go with the least worst option that suits both sides, there has to be compromise now, May kowtowing to the hard brexiteers in the Tory party is doing nobody any good, just tell them to eff off.
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So, Remain and use controls on migration allowed under EU laws?
 
Thunderhead said:
I think it would be far more than mini riots.

We've had a referendum, lets go with the least worst option that suits both sides, there has to be compromise now, May kowtowing to the hard brexiteers in the Tory party is doing nobody any good, just tell them to eff off.
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I will not accept a compromise to make my family poorer, less secure and hinder the opportunities of my children in the future. That is absolutely not acceptable and its quite right that parliament won't allow it however many morons vote for it.
 
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