Both political parties being ripped to pieces. Insane.
Labour will come out of this much worse, though.
Labour will come out of this much worse, though.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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You don't necessarily do it, the Touquet agreement isn't a EU agreement. The countries are free to do what they want.
You are correct, they are not mutually exclusive, from a theoretical POV. Jeremy Corbyn could be elected as a Tory PM.
One of the most fundamental of EU requirements is FoM. It matters not whether you think FoM is a total shithouse or the second coming of Christ, they will not give you the same level of access to their market as their members if you do not accept this core value of them and their members.
It's incredible, don't think either party has been in such a vulnerable position for a long, long time. Tories have the benefit of being in government and of, in some quarters, having technically won the referendum, but a few wrong moves from Labour and they could genuinely be dead in the water as an electable party for a long, long time.
Just retract the statement, it's easier than resorting to petty insults. You've clearly decided to ignore the actual point in hand.
You've not explained to me how free trade is better than free trade and free movement without it being a bad thing. Instead of resorting to pettiness why don't you just tell me how this logic of yours works?
Because free trade without free movement is not going to be one of the options available to us. You will undoubtedly think we will be able to negotiate one without the other. We are at an impasse.
Which would make perfect sense if we were talking about being in the EU. Which we aren't. We are talking about the very reasonable idea of having a purely economic relationship based on trade.
I'm sensing a 'The Rock' type story where Ed Harris' character (Boris or Gove) re-think this whole thing and decide not to bomb... eh... take us out of the EU.
Love the "we have to respect this because it's democracy" argument.
Democracy is just about the people being able to elect those who will make such important decisions for them, not making these decisions completely unqualified themselves.
Might as well just go full Pop Idol and do text ins for the next Bank of England interest rate.
Democracy is just about the people being able to elect those who will make such important decisions for them, not making these decisions completely unqualified themselves.
Might as well just go full Pop Idol and do text ins for the next Bank of England interest rate.
Its a non EU matter
I think the same, just not Boris or Gove. Has to be someone who didn't vote to leave. May was remain but hardly a figurehead. Maybe Corbyn doesn't cling on and Labour win.
The Uk cannot trade with the EU without freedom of movement, please phone the Norwegian or Swiss embassies if you do not think this is the case
Which is fine if that's what you said, but you didn't. Let's assume you've retracted the previous statement and we will continue with the bolded part as your new view. (I'll also like to add that freedom of movement isn't something that I feel entirely strong about either way either, it's the political aspect of the EU and it's current direction that offends me most.)Because free trade without free movement is not going to be one of the options available to us. You will undoubtedly think we will be able to negotiate one without the other. We are at an impasse.
If this idea of free trade without free movement is rejected by the EU it wouldn't be on an economic basis, it would be out of their own pettiness. There is absolutely financial reason why this would be a bad idea for the UK and the EU.
Incoming 'we're far bigger than the Suisse or the Noggies, we'll get a better deal' arguement.
He's bottling it!
I apologise if I have upset the Scots on here. I do think Scotland is an admirable country that has always punched above its weight. I just can't advocate for even more turmoil in my own country at this point.
Paul Krugman, an American Nobel prize winning (lefty) economist predicts that Britain will fare much better than the doom mongers are predicting and it is the EU which is in 'deep deep trouble' due to Brexit, the social upheaval, it's weak economy and currency. That is why I think Dominic Raab is correct in what he said about the referendum issue.
It was such a major stickler for the leave campaign that it is not likely to be an option. It was one of the three major reasons why we just voted to leave. There's no way they will accept freedom of movement after blaming all of the UK's problems on freedom of movement.
Regarding the second bit, it's nothing to do with pettiness at all. It's not something they just invented to piss us off, it's always been the case, it's a fundamental part of the EU's vision and it's always been this way. Everyone knew this a week ago. Christ knows it was said 1,000 times. But those who voted leave accepted that we would have no freedom of movement and that Scotland would leave the union thinking that this was a price worth paying - or they thought it was all bullshit and would never happen despite being told 1,000 times that it would and so now should deal with the consequences - or simply didn't know despite them having been told 1,000 times and ignorance isn't an excuse.
Is this the post you keep referring to?
This is fact, not opinion. If you wish to ascribe a notion that I think FoM is a negative based on this, that's on you. Apologies if my post could have been worded less ambiguously.
In exchange of 1bn per week, it's doable. At the end of the day, it will depend on how much they are willing to give.
Boris Johnson says the margin by which the UK voted to leave the European Union was "not entirely overwhelming"
He's bottling it!
Please let this mean a second referendum.
Why would I phone them? When have I cited them as an example? I'll state this to you as I have done Xeno as I see you've already made the same assumption. I have no problem with freedom of movement, but clearly the voting majority does. Would you not agree there is no economic reason why a trade agreement could not be drawn up between the UK and the EU?
He's bottling it!
He's correct. Literally a 1-2% swing would have the other side winning, a % so low it could go either way if the vote was taken again on another date. When it is that close and has such global ramifications the next steps should be taken very very carefully. People's views can easily change and this is an irreversable decision, they can't change their vote at the next election in 4-5 years.
Yes that may work but they'll have to close the NHS altogether
Trade frameworks for the EU to trade with neighbours already exist. The UK isn't large enough to warrant anything that wildly deviates from the norms. The choice now is to either sack off the result of the referendum of give up our European veto, and a handful of other concessions which would see Europe effectively take part of our business for themselves.
if you paid a lot more than you were but I thought that was one of the reasons the Uk wanted to get out
He's bottling it!
That is the end of Boris Johnson.
@Mozza
I can't get into this with you know. My brain is pickled from following Brexit meltdown all weekend.
I had no strong feelings about staying or leaving the EU, I voted leave purely because my partner voted stay, if she voted leave I would've voted stay, because neither of us felt strongly enough about one of the other, it was essentially a way of spoiling our vote.
It might be the EU's vision but it would still make absolutely no economical sense to deny it, it wouldn't be the UK asking to return to the EU with special privileges, it would be an instance of drawing up an entirely mutual beneficial trade agreement. If you provide me with one singular economic reason why this would be a bad idea?
There would be 2 years to come up with the deal not 20. It would the equivalent of writing your entire dissertation the night before it's due.
Pettiness? It's one of the pillars of the European Union.
Abandoning that for the UK would mean abolishing it all together, never ever ever going to happen, and not remotely "petty".
I'm trying to disassociate myself with the core group of leavers who feel that way. I'm stating there are ways that both the EU and the UK can continue to benefit form continuing our trade agreement, that's all.
Why did you both just not vote?
That is the end of Boris Johnson.
@Mozza
I can't get into this with you know. My brain is pickled from following Brexit meltdown all weekend.
Just admit you don't know
The EU isn't perfect but it is mostly good
I'm not sure you believe this, asking to draw up a trade agreement but leave out one of the fundamental aspects of the EU when negotiating trade agreements is the very definition of asking for special privileges.
But one of the rules of trade with or within the EU is FOM, everyone has to follow the same rules