Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Jippy said:
Ditto. The ERG cnuts and Labour will vote it down. Labour can vote with impunity and blame the subsequent chaos on the Tories.

As for those saying Corbyn has played a blinder, yeah fine he's sat back and watched as the Tories tear themselves apart, but he's offered feck all leadership or a viable alternative Brexit. He says he'll negotiate a Brexit that works for everyone'.
Impossible and the spineless tit still won't be honest about his own view.
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Actually how he votes or instructs his party to vote could lead him to be the one responsible to bring about a no deal brexit and he'll take the blame for the consequences which would serve him right for being even more useless than this Tory government.
Unicorns seem more likely than Corbyn as PM.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
The alternative is brexit. The problem is that 85% of Westminster, the corporate banks & businesses, and the media don't want it. This is why May is being advised to deliver it in name only, but in reality keep things as they are. However, everyone knows (including leavers) that our current status in the EU is better than her deal. So now everyones frustrated with the situation. Labour and the Lib Dems would be right to reject her deal, because 'no brexit' is better than this deal. The EU realises that the UK government has no stomach for a no deal scenario, so they can now demand anything they want. They also know there is huge pressure mounting to force another vote, but this time they know that the british people have lost confidence in any shambolic government to deliver it, and this might tip the balance.
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ha.

hahahahahah.

haha.
 
Rolandofgilead said:
The will of the people is a flawed argument anyway seeing as nobody based their votes on facts. Both leave and remain had awful campaigns
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You can't say that. EU scepticism has been increasing for years. Cameron was forced to include the referendum in his manifesto in order to satisfy the UKIPers and get a majority government in the 2015 election.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
You can't say that. EU scepticism has been increasing for years. Cameron was forced to include the referendum in his manifesto in order to satisfy the UKIPers and get a majority government in the 2015 election.
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Nobody knew what the leave processed actually involved. I'm fairly sure people thought right we will leave then 2 weeks later we'll have a fully funded NHS and everyone gets a fiver
 
I have to say I think a 2nd referendum is very unlikely
But... If there is one I can only see a binary choice on the ballot
If there is one I think it will be pitched as we are respecting the will of the people and we are leaving as promiced.

Option 1 leave accepting the deal on offer
Option 2 leave with no deal

As I say don't think there will be a vote anyway as it's not policy for either conservative or labour

But if there is I still don't think remain will be an option
 
sun_tzu said:
I have to say I think a 2nd referendum is very unlikely
But... If there is one I can only see a binary choice on the ballot
If there is one I think it will be pitched as we are respecting the will of the people and we are leaving as promiced.

Option 1 leave accepting the deal on offer
Option 2 leave with no deal

As I say don't think there will be a vote anyway as it's not policy for either conservative or labour

But if there is I still don't think remain will be an option
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In the unlikely event of a second referendum of course remain would be an option.
 
sun_tzu said:
I have to say I think a 2nd referendum is very unlikely
But... If there is one I can only see a binary choice on the ballot
If there is one I think it will be pitched as we are respecting the will of the people and we are leaving as promiced.

Option 1 leave accepting the deal on offer
Option 2 leave with no deal

As I say don't think there will be a vote anyway as it's not policy for either conservative or labour

But if there is I still don't think remain will be an option
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What about the ECJ looking at Britain's potential right to unilaterally repeal Article 50. I've not heard to much about it, is it pie in the sky?
 
Classical Mechanic said:
What about the ECJ looking at Britain's potential right to unilaterally repeal Article 50. I've not heard to much about it, is it pie in the sky?
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The EU would take us back in an instant, as it's in their favour to do so. The problem would be how to tell the British public that their decision is being overturned. There would be anarchy here, and I imagine a large number of people who voted remain would be very disturbed by it too. Many remainers would not have agreed with the vote, but they would have honoured the democratic decision.
In the end of the day, the issues that divide us need looking at to find some solutions or it'll never be resolved.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
What about the ECJ looking at Britain's potential right to unilaterally repeal Article 50. I've not heard to much about it, is it pie in the sky?
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Does that even matter? I think regardless of that it would be in the EU's interest to keep the UK as a member.
 
Sweet Square said:
I don't think May has ever said this in the sense it's something the tory party are willing to do. And it's doesn't matter what Tusk says.

Stopping Brexit would destroy both political parties(Tory & Labour)and destroy the legitimacy of UK democracy, these are the reasons why Brexit is going to happen. The best option for people who want to remain is a 2nd referendum.
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One referendum is democracy, but another referendum isn't democracy?

The last general election came like a year after the last one... No one complained that that wasn't democracy.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
One referendum is democracy, but another referendum isn't democracy?

The last general election came like a year after the last one... No one complained that that wasn't democracy.
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Yeah I'm surprised people are still saying that. We picked that apart pages ago... It's bollocks.
 
sun_tzu said:
I have to say I think a 2nd referendum is very unlikely
But... If there is one I can only see a binary choice on the ballot
If there is one I think it will be pitched as we are respecting the will of the people and we are leaving as promiced.

Option 1 leave accepting the deal on offer
Option 2 leave with no deal

As I say don't think there will be a vote anyway as it's not policy for either conservative or labour

But if there is I still don't think remain will be an option
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McDonnell has u-turned on this. Before the party conference the Labour leadership was very much against a second referendum, and after great pressure from the rank and file to call for one they eventually weaseled a 'we're not ruling one out'. This morning on radio 4 he clearly said 'our preferred choice is a general election, but if not we want a second referendum. Could be different again next week though.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
The problem would be how to tell the British public that their decision is being overturned. There would be anarchy here, and I imagine a large number of people who voted remain would be very disturbed by it too.
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Would there balls be anarchy. Since when were the English supposedly this nation of revolutionaries? We put up with most things by doing nothing more than grumble when other nationalities would be out on the streets. Yet we’re supposed to believe that in the case of a second referendum millions of leavers whose deep political engagement with Brexit is generally summed up by ‘just get on with it’ are going to be rioting in the streets? Bollocks. There would be a few protest marches and lots of whining in the Daily Mail comments section and feck all else.

At the end of the day a second referendum is an added chance to have a choice. People aren’t about to burn down cities because they were given too much democracy.
 
Kentonio said:
Would there balls be anarchy. Since when were the English supposedly this nation of revolutionaries? We put up with most things by doing nothing more than grumble when other nationalities would be out on the streets. Yet we’re supposed to believe that in the case of a second referendum millions of leavers whose deep political engagement with Brexit is generally summed up by ‘just get on with it’ are going to be rioting in the streets? Bollocks. There would be a few protest marches and lots of whining in the Daily Mail comments section and feck all else.

At the end of the day a second referendum is an added chance to have a choice. People aren’t about to burn down cities because they were given too much democracy.
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The other problem is that the current malaise in the economy has a lot to do with Brexit uncertainty. If cancelling Brexit caused a bit of pressure to be eased off of people who are just about keeping their heads above the water (as most predict it might) then the idea they'll take to the streets is unlikely. People's lives getting better rarely leads to anarchy.
 
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Kentonio said:
Would there balls be anarchy. Since when were the English supposedly this nation of revolutionaries? We put up with most things by doing nothing more than grumble when other nationalities would be out on the streets. Yet we’re supposed to believe that in the case of a second referendum millions of leavers whose deep political engagement with Brexit is generally summed up by ‘just get on with it’ are going to be rioting in the streets? Bollocks. There would be a few protest marches and lots of whining in the Daily Mail comments section and feck all else.

At the end of the day a second referendum is an added chance to have a choice. People aren’t about to burn down cities because they were given too much democracy.
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Don't underestimate the seriousness betraying the will of the people.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
One referendum is democracy, but another referendum isn't democracy?

The last general election came like a year after the last one... No one complained that that wasn't democracy.
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What?

I wasn't arguing that, I even said the best chance for remain is a 2nd referendum. I saying was it would be un-democratic to just stop brexit.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
What about the ECJ looking at Britain's potential right to unilaterally repeal Article 50. I've not heard to much about it, is it pie in the sky?
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There is a court case I believe.... Not sure if there will even be a ruling before A50 expires... Even if there is then I assume any appeal would certainly take longer than the a50 timeframe

Edit 27th November apparently... Though there is an appeal by the UK government to prevent the case being heard

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-46236762
 
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Massive Spanner said:
If there's a second referendum you are still following the will of the people.
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Your statement and that of vidic are not antithetical
Calling a 2nd referendum would I believe be taken very badly by some who voted to leave before
I would expect to see a march at least as big and probably bigger than the peoples vote march calling for the first referendum result to be implemented (i.e. leaving)

I voted to remain... I would do so again (though I do not expect to have the opportunity to do so even though I hope it happens)... I would in future most probably vote to rejoin even if that meant no rebate and taking the euro.

Yet I still see big problems with massive disenfranchisement of huge swathes of the electorate if there is a 2nd vote
 
Kentonio said:
Would there balls be anarchy. Since when were the English supposedly this nation of revolutionaries? We put up with most things by doing nothing more than grumble when other nationalities would be out on the streets. Yet we’re supposed to believe that in the case of a second referendum millions of leavers whose deep political engagement with Brexit is generally summed up by ‘just get on with it’ are going to be rioting in the streets? Bollocks. There would be a few protest marches and lots of whining in the Daily Mail comments section and feck all else.

At the end of the day a second referendum is an added chance to have a choice. People aren’t about to burn down cities because they were given too much democracy.
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It’s just a line used by Brexiteers who fear (correctly) that 23 June 2016 was their one shot at the title and that the chances of a repeat victory for Leave are extremely remote indeed.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
Don't underestimate the seriousness betraying the will of the people.
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Betraying the will of the people by asking the people again if they’re sure? Not sure that computes. If it’s still the will of the people, then Leave should win again comfortably shouldn’t it? Isn’t that the very definition of ‘will of the people’? If they vote Remain, then leave is clearly no longer the will of the people.
 
What is the point of a second vote at this point? It is so obviously a terrible idea lets just cancel the whole thing.

If leave somehow still want to leave they can come up with a realistic plan and we'll vote on that in the future - but they've had two years and failed to provide anything close to a coherent plan. It's time to abort.
 
Kentonio said:
Betraying the will of the people by asking the people again if they’re sure? Not sure that computes. If it’s still the will of the people, then Leave should win again comfortably shouldn’t it? Isn’t that the very definition of ‘will of the people’? If they vote Remain, then leave is clearly no longer the will of the people.
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But democracy.
 
MoskvaRed said:
It’s just a line used by Brexiteers who fear (correctly) that 23 June 2016 was their one shot at the title and that the chances of a repeat victory for Leave are extremely remote indeed.
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Nailed it...

Although I won't go at far as saying extremely remote...
 
sun_tzu said:
Your statement and that of vidic are not antithetical
Calling a 2nd referendum would I believe be taken very badly by some who voted to leave before
I would expect to see a march at least as big and probably bigger than the peoples vote march calling for the first referendum result to be implemented (i.e. leaving)

I voted to remain... I would do so again (though I do not expect to have the opportunity to do so even though I hope it happens)... I would in future most probably vote to rejoin even if that meant no rebate and taking the euro.

Yet I still see big problems with massive disenfranchisement of huge swathes of the electorate if there is a 2nd vote
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What is worse... ignoring the (more rational, workable and pragmatic) opinions of what may now a majority out of some flimsy notion that this was a once in a lifetime vote - or overturning the irrational, unworkable opinions of what may now form the minority.

Personally if Brexit was logistically doable and only caused a limited degree of short term pain - I could accept being bound by it, but it is simply a farce and not doable at all especially not with the Tories at the helm.

Second referendum is the best opportunity to get ourselves out of this mess and to hell with whoever voted out in the first place I say. THey've had two years to try and make their decision work and it has proven to be a joke. Enough is enough.
 
Tarrou said:
What is the point of a second vote at this point? It is so obviously a terrible idea lets just cancel the whole thing.

If leave somehow still want to leave they can come up with a realistic plan and we'll vote on that in the future - but they've had two years and failed to provide anything close to a coherent plan. It's time to abort.
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Here hear. If only May felt like this.
 
Tarrou said:
What is the point of a second vote at this point? It is so obviously a terrible idea lets just cancel the whole thing.

If leave somehow still want to leave they can come up with a realistic plan and we'll vote on that in the future - but they've had two years and failed to provide anything close to a coherent plan. It's time to abort.
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It has to be done democratically, otherwise the EU won’t accept it. They were clear about that.
 
Kentonio said:
It has to be done democratically, otherwise the EU won’t accept it. They were clear about that.
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Yes you gotta go 2nd ref on final decision, and whatever happens we accept it, stfu and 'get on with it'
 
MoskvaRed said:
It’s just a line used by Brexiteers who fear (correctly) that 23 June 2016 was their one shot at the title and that the chances of a repeat victory for Leave are extremely remote indeed.
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No that's nonsense. To overturn a democratic vote is very serious. There's nothing wrong in having a second vote, and if remain wins, then the result should be honoured by leavers. However, that doesn't stop people being against EU membership.
 
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