Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Abizzz]

So let's be clear here. The British electorate were given a choice to leave the EU, are you suggesting that we should not have been offered a democratic vote on EU membership?

Not in the fashion it was done with 0 preparation and even less of a clue how to go about it. The options weren't to leave or stay, they were:
1)Keep everything at status quo
2)Do anything the farthest to the right of the conservative party can force on the rest of the conservative party. Whatever that shall be.

The referendum was done horribly bad by a government that had no clue what it was doing. The fact that brexit won changes nothing about that.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

But you have to accept the consequences of that vote which no-one including JRM, May, Farage, Johnson want to do.

Nobody as yet knows the consequences and the full benefits. We don't even know is May's proposal is going to be rejected yet.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

Sorry guys I gotta shoot off to prepare metrics for a meeting tomorrow. Struggling to keep up with all the responses here.
Where are all the brexiters in this forum? Are there any?

If I started a pro brexit thread here, would I be the only one in there?

 

[caid]

No it's you who've been wound up by the media.
All the calamitous things that were supposed to happen when we voted to leave, haven't happened, and it won't happen when we leave completely.
If we ever get to leave with this prime minister.

You've already lost tens of thousands of jobs, sterling has already fallen in value by about 10%+, investments have been cancelled and relocated. And nothing has technically changed whatsoever in the 2 years since you've made this decision. Even fecking JRM thinks its going to damage your economy further and thousands more jobs will be lost when you actually leave. How far down the toilet does your economy need to go before you give credit to the predictions it would hurt you?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Nobody as yet knows the consequences and the full benefits. We don't even know is May's proposal is going to be rejected yet.

The consequences are no deal - that's what you voted for, otherwise the UK stays in the CU/SM ie in the EU in name only. May's proposal is 100% certain rejected. It was rejected before it was released to the public.

 

[C3Pique]

Nobody as yet knows the consequences and the full benefits. We don't even know is May's proposal is going to be rejected yet.

Narrator [Ron Howard]: "It is."

 

[Pogue Mahone]

You've already lost tens of thousands of jobs, sterling has already fallen in value by about 10%+, investments have been cancelled and relocated. And nothing has technically changed whatsoever in the 2 years since you've made this decision. Even fecking JRM thinks its going to damage your economy further and thousands more jobs will be lost when you actually leave. How far down the toilet does your economy need to go before you give credit to the predictions it would hurt you?

And is part owner of one of the many businesses choosing to invest in locations within the EU, instead of the UK. The devious twat.

 

[Wibble]

Mogg hasn't shown himself to be a career politician like the others. He's more passionate about his beliefs than his political career.

We have a weak prime minister who changes her mind like the wind.

So?

He had plans in case of no deal.

Which amount to singing Land of Hope and Glory and hoping for the best.

Why?

When businesses make major investment decisions like where to set up theyconsider many things including labor costs and the size of the market they serve. Being inside the EU is a huge benefit in such cases as you have tarrif free access to 100% of the EU's spending rather than just 16% of it.

So new investment is far more likely not to flow to the UK. Not to mention the EU incentives to set up in deprived areas will no longer exist.

And when investment choices have to be made where are they going to concenteate spending? Say, expand a car plant in the UK or one inside the UK?

Hard Brexit is going to hugely damage British manufacturing in the medium/long term.

About 40% of British exports go to the EU (a declining market), and when we leave the EU we shall automatically be one of the biggest customers.

Our exports and imports will be more expensive and trade will decline. Why would they not?

 

[Ramshock]

The UK will not be the ones erecting a hard border.

Good for tbem! Too busy turning Kent into a lorry park I suppose.

 

[Grinner]

Nothing stopping them. But (IMO) useful, practical degrees that are likely to produce graduates that can fill gaps in the UK workforce should be incentivised.

So how about art teachers then? You ok incentivising that?

 

[C3Pique]

So how about art teachers then? You ok incentivising that?

Is there a shortage of art teachers? If so yes?

 

[Silva]

EU citizens lean toward a hard line in the negotiations.

 

[Wibble]

So let's be clear here. The British electorate were given a choice to leave the EU, are you suggesting that we should not have been offered a democratic vote on EU membership?

Of course we shouldn't have. That is why we have the Westminster form of democracy.

 

[caid]

EU citizens lean toward a hard line in the negotiations.

Would people not be inclined to take a hard line in negotiations in general?

 

[Silva]

We are already trading with the EU member states under WTO rules

We trade through the single market and customs union. The WTO was created after those and didn't have any effect on EU nation trade with each other as the inner-EU arrangements are at a higher level than the WTO. Trading through the WTO means Britain will be legally required to erect a border in Ireland and pay tariffs which are two things the leave campaign explicitly told the country wouldn't happen. Half the country might have voted for Brexit, but they didn't vote for this shit.

 

[Ramshock]

This Vidic fella is having a mare. Time to bring on Phil Jones

 

[devilish]

So let's be clear here. The British electorate were given a choice to leave the EU, are you suggesting that we should not have been offered a democratic vote on EU membership?

I think that the referendum needed to be more specific. What does leaving the EU means? Is it the Norway model? Is it the Swiss model? Is it the Turkish model (customs union and nothing more)? Is it the Ceta model? (trade deal and nothing more) or is it a hard Brexit? It also needed to respect the EU enough not to invent a new model that wasn't given the go ahead by them first. Its naive and rude from the Brexiteer's part to expect the EU to just roll over and give the UK whatever it wanted. Sure shrewd negotiations might lead to some concessions but taking such concession for granted enough to promise them to the electorate is crazy and will only create hostility.


The voter was duped in voting Brexit by being offered a wide range of options most of whom contrasted with one another. Its impossible to be in the single market while concurrently end FOM. Thus such dishonestly dents the credibility of the referendum.

May I remind you that during the Brexit campaign hard brexit was portrayed as a rather extreme and unpopular view. This is what Brexiteers used to say during the Brexit campaign.

 

[Wibble]

Politicians turn out to be dishonest sacks of shit.

Say it aint so

 

[711]

Of course we shouldn't have. That is why we have the Westminster form of democracy.

For which both major parties campaigned with Brexit in their manifestos, so you should be happy it's all working as planned.

Personally I wish people had voted Liberal or SNP, but they didn't, unfortunately, they voted overwhelmingly for Brexit parties.

 

[Kentonio]

For which both major parties campaigned with Brexit in their manifestos, so you should be happy it's all working as planned.

Personally I wish people had voted Liberal or SNP, but they didn't, unfortunately, they voted overwhelmingly for Brexit parties.

This is such a bullshit argument. The only party with a possibility of beating the tories last election were Labour, and the Lib Dems only recently were in coalition with those same tories. For anyone who wanted an end to austerity politics and the removal of the Tories, the Lib Dems were hardly going to be a realistic option.

 

[Stanley Road]

This is such a bullshit argument. The only party with a possibility of beating the tories last election were Labour, and the Lib Dems only recently were in coalition with those same tories. For anyone who wanted an end to austerity politics and the removal of the Tories, the Lib Dems were hardly going to be a realistic option.

And that'll always be the remainers argument. Austerity obviously more important than Brexit, makes sense.

 

[711]

This is such a bullshit argument. The only party with a possibility of beating the tories last election were Labour, and the Lib Dems only recently were in coalition with those same tories. For anyone who wanted an end to austerity politics and the removal of the Tories, the Lib Dems were hardly going to be a realistic option.

Then those anyones have little right to complain about Brexit, they voted for it.

 

[JPRouve]

Then those anyones have little right to complain about Brexit, they voted for it.

For context, Miliband was Labour's leader and anti Brexit, right?

 

[africanspur]

For which both major parties campaigned with Brexit in their manifestos, so you should be happy it's all working as planned.

Personally I wish people had voted Liberal or SNP, but they didn't, unfortunately, they voted overwhelmingly for Brexit parties.

Why should I be happy?

If you live in certain constituencies in the UK, you effectively don't live in a democracy. Your vote, unless it goes to increasing the dominant party's majority, means feck all. I hate the FPTP system and its complete lack of accountability and representation. I'd completely overhaul our system if it was up to me.

This is such a strange argument honestly.

 

[711]

For context, Miliband was Labour's leader and anti Brexit, right?

Well no, at the last election Corbyn was Labour leader and pro Brexit. This is the context:
https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/labour-manifesto-2017.pdf

 

[711]

Why should I be happy?

If you live in certain constituencies in the UK, you effectively don't live in a democracy. Your vote, unless it goes to increasing the dominant party's majority, means feck all. I hate the FPTP system and its complete lack of accountability and representation. I'd completely overhaul our system if it was up to me.

This is such a strange argument honestly.

I was replying to Wibble's point about parliamentary democracy. If you didn't vote because you don't believe in it, or the particular form of it we have, then fair enough, my criticsm doesn't apply to you.

 

[JPRouve]

Well no, at the last election Corbyn was Labour leader and pro Brexit. This is the context:
https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/labour-manifesto-2017.pdf

I don't get your point then. The election that mattered was the previous one, the one that put Cameron and his referendum promise in 10 Downing street.

 

[711]

I don't get your point then. The election that mattered was the previous one, the one that put Cameron and his referendum promise in 10 Downing street.

I think you do. The new parliament could have decided not to go ahead with Brexit and still could if it decided to. And the point you claim not to get is that if there were more Liberal MPs that is what they would do. Even half a dozen might have done it. What a time for the Libs to be so useless, oh well.

 

[golden_blunder]

Tell me why companies will have a need to leave the UK post brexit?

Lots of the multi-nationals
Ireland is already having discussions with some and predicting quite a few to establish their bases here in Ireland, EU friendly

Talk about shooting yourselves in the foot. I’m not sure what’s worse, trump electorate or brexit voters with their heads in the sand. Clearly they both like believing in liars

 

[golden_blunder]

This Vidic fella is having a mare. Time to bring on Phil Jones

 

[JPRouve]

Lots of the multi-nationals
Ireland is already having discussions with some and predicting quite a few to establish their bases here in Ireland, EU friendly

Talk about shooting yourselves in the foot. I’m not sure what’s worse, trump electorate or brexit voters with their heads in the sand. Clearly they both like believing in liars

Since 2016 the MEDEF, the largest employer union in france, is hunting UK based companies, the same is true in Germany and Ireland. In France it was advised to do it discreetly. And I doubt that they will stop even if there is a deal.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Since 2016 the MEDEF, the largest employer union in france, is hunting UK based companies, the same is true in Germany and Ireland. In France it was advised to do it discreetly. And I doubt that they will stop even if there is a deal.

Quite a few companies have already moved or announced plans to move to Dublin, Barclays for example.

I imagine Paris, Amsterdam, and Frankfurt will lap up a lot of the financials. Dublin is already maxed out in terms of demand and a lack of available properties/infrastructure so I can't see us reaping too many of the awards.

 

[golden_blunder]

Quite a few companies have already moved or announced plans to move to Dublin, Barclays for example.

I imagine Paris, Amsterdam, and Frankfurt will lap up a lot of the financials. Dublin is already maxed out in terms of demand and a lack of available properties/infrastructure so I can't see us reaping too many of the awards.

They’re building left right and centre down Dublin’s quays again. Don’t know if they’re for existing companies or incoming businesses. Either way there is still lots of old places that could be changed to hip new places so I can’t see lack of space being a huge issue

 

[Massive Spanner]

They’re building left right and centre down Dublin’s quays again. Don’t know if they’re for existing companies or incoming businesses. Either way there is still lots of old places that could be changed to hip new places so I can’t see lack of space being a huge issue

Google just snapped up the largest development that was available and I believe all of Capital Dock has already been taken too and that's not even fully built yet. Grant Thornton have bought the new building right beside their current one to switch. Most other buildings would be more-so for small to medium businesses than large ones. We don't really have the space or office size to take in the sort of mammoth firms that could be exiting London. More than likely we'll continue to get the likes of Barclays sending 100 or so jobs our way so they can shift their European headquarters.

Unfortunately years of neglect in the transport infrastructure here (which is abysmal for a capital city of a western country), the mass housing shortage, and already over-availability of financial/tech jobs vs workers means we're a difficult sell for these companies vs a Frankfurt or Paris. I suspect we'll continue our rise to being the Silicon Valley of Europe but finance wise I doubt we'll get much from the UK.

 

[Kentonio]

And that'll always be the remainers argument. Austerity obviously more important than Brexit, makes sense.

Then those anyones have little right to complain about Brexit, they voted for it.

Yes, to a huge number of UK voters, direct domestic policies that effect their everyday lives are indeed more important than Brexit. Most of them don't realize the shockingly dramatic effect Brexit could have on their lives and economic prospects. The idea that this means they support leaving is just nonsense.

 

[MadMike]

Google just snapped up the largest development that was available and I believe all of Capital Dock has already been taken too and that's not even fully built yet. Grant Thornton have bought the new building right beside their current one to switch. Most other buildings would be more-so for small to medium businesses than large ones. We don't really have the space or office size to take in the sort of mammoth firms that could be exiting London. More than likely we'll continue to get the likes of Barclays sending 100 or so jobs our way so they can shift their European headquarters.

Unfortunately years of neglect in the transport infrastructure here (which is abysmal for a capital city of a western country), the mass housing shortage, and already over-availability of financial/tech jobs vs workers means we're a difficult sell for these companies vs a Frankfurt or Paris. I suspect we'll continue our rise to being the Silicon Valley of Europe but finance wise I doubt we'll get much from the UK.

I think I need to move my arse to Ireland hearing about this over-availability in tech jobs vs workers. The other option is Berlin where I already have friends. Buttfeck learning German

 

[Massive Spanner]

I think I need to move my arse to Ireland hearing about this over-availability in tech jobs vs workers. The other option is Berlin where I already have friends. Buttfeck learning German

it's not all rosey. As good as IT options and wages are in Dublin it's equally very expensive to live here and very difficult to get accommodation right now. It's a tough place for expats to come, not that that stops them.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think I need to move my arse to Ireland hearing about this over-availability in tech jobs vs workers. The other option is Berlin where I already have friends. Buttfeck learning German

Easy enough to get by without speaking German in Berlin. One of the most cosmopolitan cities I’ve been to. Every second conversation you overhear is in English.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Easy enough to get by without speaking German in Berlin. One of the most cosmopolitan cities I’ve been to. Every second conversation you overhear is in English.

And a fecking amazing city to boot. Probably my favourite in Europe.

 

[MadMike]

it's not all rosey. As good as IT options and wages are in Dublin it's equally very expensive to live here and very difficult to get accommodation right now. It's a tough place for expats to come, not that that stops them.

Yeah I heard about that. I have an ex-colleague who returned home to Dublin from London. He says basically what you're saying, that costs have been rising to the point where it's more expensive than London now in many things including housing. While the "package" the city offers outside of work opportunities is far inferior in terms of services, infrastructure and general shit to do. Last time I visited was 5 years ago and didn't fall in love with the place.

I visit Berlin every year for the last 10 years, due to having childhood friends there. And while the City is not on par yet with places like Munich and Hamburg it's come on leaps and bounds in that time. So many construction projects there. And they are also screaming for more tech people there, with salaries for the sector well above the average. But if you want to integrate and not be the outsider immigrant, you gotta learn German and I don't know if I have the appetite for that. Otherwise I would have probably made the leap couple of years back.