Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
MoskvaRed said:
It’s a sure sign that there are no tangible benefits to Brexit when people who can barely think outside the 5 year electoral cycle start invoking the sunny uplands of 2050.
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Reminds me of a study on AI where all the experts consulted predicted the next major breakthrough in approximately 20 years time. Turns out that a similar group of experts had made the exact same prediction 10 years previously. A 20 year horizon is apparently the sweet spot for research funding. Any further out and it’s pie in the sky, any sooner and they might actually have to start delivering on their predictions before their tenure finishes.

Same shit with Brexit. They only make promises on timelines that they know they can never be held accountable for.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Reminds me of a study on AI where all the experts consulted predicted the next major breakthrough in approximately 20 years time. Turns out that a similar group of experts had made the exact same prediction 10 years previously. A 20 year horizon is apparently the sweet spot for research funding. Any further out and it’s pie in the sky, any sooner and they might actually have to start delivering on their predictions before their tenure finishes.

Same shit with Brexit. They only make promises on timelines that they know they can never be held accountable for.
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Good point.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Reminds me of a study on AI where all the experts consulted predicted the next major breakthrough in approximately 20 years time. Turns out that a similar group of experts had made the exact same prediction 10 years previously. A 20 year horizon is apparently the sweet spot for research funding. Any further out and it’s pie in the sky, any sooner and they might actually have to start delivering on their predictions before their tenure finishes.

Same shit with Brexit. They only make promises on timelines that they know they can never be held accountable for.
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If I remember correctly, professional futurologists usually refuse to predict further than 10 years ahead because it's illogical to.
 
balaks said:
It would give me enormous pleasure to punch that man repeatedly. On your point about what the DUP think - they simply do not believe there will ever be a united Ireland, they have said as much so I don't think they are giving it a second thought. They believe that if NI deviates in any way from the rest of the UK in BREXIT terms that this will weaken the union. Of course they are more than happy for NI to not follow the rest of the UK on social matters that they believe in such as equal marriage, etc. It's infuriating.
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It will hit us in the pocket hard first
 
Adam Wagner, lawyer:

'Here’s the ridiculous part. The result of the Brexit Referendum - unlike general elections, local elections or even local council referendums - isn’t subject to the the Election Court. So even though Vote Leave broke the rules, the result probably can’t be challenged.'
 
SteveJ said:
Adam Wagner, lawyer:

'Here’s the ridiculous part. The result of the Brexit Referendum - unlike general elections, local elections or even local council referendums - isn’t subject to the the Election Court. So even though Vote Leave broke the rules, the result probably can’t be challenged.'
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Here's the ridiculous part, it was an advisory referendum, you don't have to challenge the result.
 
Senior Tory calls for referendum to be re-run in the light of evidence of Vote Leave's 'cheating'

Sarah Wollaston, a Conservative who chairs the Commons health committee and the Commons liaison committee, says the Electoral Commission report reveals deliberate “cheating”. She says Dominic Cummings, the Vote Leave campaign director, said the help his campaign got from AggregateIQ made all the difference. But Cummings now refuses to give evidence to a Commons committee, despite claiming that Brexitwas all about restoring the authority of parliament. And she says the referendum should be re-run.

We cannot have confidence that this referendum was secure. It should be re-run.
 
The 80%+ of Tory MPs who don't back Hard Brexit should withdraw their support of the Government. It's clear that May is being controlled by the ERG and they are all complicit.
 
Green_Red said:
The common travel area between Ireland and the UK wont be affected will it?
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Nobody knows - if they are stopping movement over the border then that needs monitored - so you would imagine that this will mean people moving over the border in either direction will need to be verified in some way
 
C3Pique said:
The 80%+ of Tory MPs who don't back Hard Brexit should withdraw their support of the Government. It's clear that May is being controlled by the ERG and they are all complicit.
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I think the only thing May is controlled by, is her desire to keep her job. She will yield to anyone who is threatening to rock the boat hard enough that it topples her and her government. Her own party have made a mockery of her "strong and stable" mantra as they've undermined her at every turn and now she's barely clinging on with hardly any authority left.

She's as good as gone. Her decision to call a snap election and then effectively not campaign is coming back to haunt her. She thought she would have a strong majority but she's in a coalition that can be toppled by a mere 3 resignations. She is a puppet without strings, pushed whichever way the wind blows harder.
 
MadMike said:
I think the only thing May is controlled by, is her desire to keep her job. She will yield to anyone who is threatening to rock the boat hard enough that it topples her and her government. Her own party have made a mockery of her "strong and stable" mantra as they've undermined her at every turn and now she's barely clinging on with hardly any authority left.

She's as good as gone. Her decision to call a snap election and then effectively not campaign is coming back to haunt her. She thought she would have a strong majority but she's in a coalition that can be toppled by a mere 3 resignations. She is a puppet without strings, pushed whichever way the wind blows harder.
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You are 100% right - another thing that appears to have been overlooked in all this is that she actually failed to get a mandate for a hard brexit as she was hammered in the snap election and now is dependant on DUP as a result so actually the fact is that a hard brexit is undemocratic. Not that the guys behind this give one toss about this.
 
Sassy Colin said:
This is it though, what makes us think we can negotiate better trade deals on our own than the huge European trading block?
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I think the plan was to boost our trade in all the countries outside of the EU - the commonwealth, USA, China, etc. They would need to get a sensational deal from those countries because they are going to get a terrible one from the EU
 
Who replaces her though?

She's a weak leader with a divided party who doesn't have a clue what she's doing on Brexit and is hoping circumstance somehow conspires to mean she doesn't have to make any decision. That is exactly what Corbyn would be if in charge. That is exactly what a Tory remainer would be if in charge. That's exactly what a Tory Brexiteer would be if in charge.

She's doing a horrible job but there isn't a realistic replacement who wouldn't do an equally bad one, if not worse.
 
MadMike said:
I think the only thing May is controlled by, is her desire to keep her job. She will yield to anyone who is threatening to rock the boat hard enough that it topples her and her government. Her own party have made a mockery of her "strong and stable" mantra as they've undermined her at every turn and now she's barely clinging on with hardly any authority left.

She's as good as gone. Her decision to call a snap election and then effectively not campaign is coming back to haunt her. She thought she would have a strong majority but she's in a coalition that can be toppled by a mere 3 resignations. She is a puppet without strings, pushed whichever way the wind blows harder.
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If she does have any principles I have no idea what they are.
Oscie said:
Who replaces her though?

She's a weak leader with a divided party who doesn't have a clue what she's doing on Brexit and is hoping circumstance somehow conspires to mean she doesn't have to make any decision. That is exactly what Corbyn would be if in charge. That is exactly what a Tory remainer would be if in charge. That's exactly what a Tory Brexiteer would be if in charge.

She's doing a horrible job but there isn't a realistic replacement who wouldn't do an equally bad one, if not worse.
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And the worst of this is that if it goes on long enough the public will eventually react by going for a loudmouth but cocksure bigoted 'strong man/woman' Trumpesque figure. Frightening.
 
711 said:
If she does have any principles I have no idea what they are.

And the worst of this is that if it goes on long enough the public will eventually react by going for a loudmouth but cocksure bigoted 'strong man/woman' Trumpesque figure. Frightening.
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Honestly what I think the public are crying out for is a political leader of the left who actually has an interest in opposing the govt over Brexit. And by opposing I mean lead the charge against them, go heavy in the media and in Parliament attacking them. Be the voice for the tens of millions of people who think this is a complete fecking mess. Which, I'm afraid, is different to having to have your arm twisted by your own MPs on a number of occasions to even vote against the government and show no real interest in making the argument outside Parliament except for when Piers Morgan invites you on with Danny Dyer to have a chat about the footie on a show where ironically Danny Dyer himself summed up the anger of your supporters on this issue more succinctly than you have for 2 years.


But that's just me.
 
Oscie said:
Who replaces her though?

She's a weak leader with a divided party who doesn't have a clue what she's doing on Brexit and is hoping circumstance somehow conspires to mean she doesn't have to make any decision. That is exactly what Corbyn would be if in charge. That is exactly what a Tory remainer would be if in charge. That's exactly what a Tory Brexiteer would be if in charge.

She's doing a horrible job but there isn't a realistic replacement who wouldn't do an equally bad one, if not worse.
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The state May is in, she can't do her job because the #1 requirement for a prime minister is to have authority among his/her own party. You can't do the job of a PM if you're teetering.

What you're describing there is a "if I was in your shoes" scenario. I'm not sure anyone would make a better job of it now, because whoever's in her shoes is also without any authority.

If May falls, there'll be a party leadership election. Which is very likely to lead to a general election because ERG won't sit behind an EU-friendly PM and there's no chance moderate or pro-EU Tories will sit behind BoJo or JRM.

This will force the parties to re-ascertain their main policy regarding Brexit. Do you back it, yes or no? Do you prefer no Brexit over hard Brexit? A new election could re-shape things. A new PM will be as strong as the majority he or she brings.


711 said:
If she does have any principles I have no idea what they are.
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I've not seen any strong convictions from her on anything.

711 said:
And the worst of this is that if it goes on long enough the public will eventually react by going for a loudmouth but cocksure bigoted 'strong man/woman' Trumpesque figure. Frightening.
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Maybe, but then maybe that person will be defeated in general elections? I can't imagine JRM being popular outside of a very nationalistic faction of the Tory party.

The irony is that the middle-ground, swing voter equally dislikes a Jezza as a JRM. If New Labour were still around, they would have probably sent this Tory government packing.
 
There is no reconciliation to be had, the job of the PM at the moment is just getting to the end of each day. Brexit has paralysed this country for 2 years. It's absolutely outrageous.
 
Ladies and gentlemen, members of the cabinet of her Majesty's government are going to be investigated by the police and there's not even a hint about talk of resignations.
 
MadMike said:
The irony is that the middle-ground, swing voter equally dislikes a Jezza as a JRM. If New Labour were still around, they would have probably sent this Tory government packing.
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So many Labour figures of the past would have been tearing the Tories to shreds at this point. To be fair if Ken Clarke was still under a hundred he would too.
 
Oscie said:
Honestly what I think the public are crying out for is a political leader of the left who actually has an interest in opposing the govt over Brexit. And by opposing I mean lead the charge against them, go heavy in the media and in Parliament attacking them. Be the voice for the tens of millions of people who think this is a complete fecking mess. Which, I'm afraid, is different to having to have your arm twisted by your own MPs on a number of occasions to even vote against the government and show no real interest in making the argument outside Parliament except for when Piers Morgan invites you on with Danny Dyer to have a chat about the footie on a show where ironically Danny Dyer himself summed up the anger of your supporters on this issue more succinctly than you have for 2 years.


But that's just me.
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Vote Green!
 
711 said:
So many Labour figures of the past would have been tearing the Tories to shreds at this point. To be fair if Ken Clarke was still under a hundred he would too.
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Not fully sure about that. A large section of the public and a lot of the mainstream press wants a hard brexit. Someone from the Labour past or Ken Clarke would be torn to shreds by them as some kind of anti-democratic figure.
 
I do wonder where Brexit would be if someone like Johnson had been made PM from the outset. Would it have been called off by now? Or would we be be on a collision course for Hard brexit?
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Not fully sure about that. A large section of the public and a lot of the mainstream press wants a hard brexit. Someone from the Labour past or Ken Clarke would be torn to shreds by them as some kind of anti-democratic figure.
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Did you see Soubry in parliament? Now I don't like her as a person or a Tory, but she stood and demanded to know what Brexiters had to say to her constituents who were going to lose their jobs. That's what Labour MPs should be doing, repeatedly in parliament but in every interview and at every opportunity. Not just them but Remain supporters too, less whinging about alleged stupidity, how old voters are and campaign overspending and more hammering home the economic realities. Job losses, less revenue and tax rises for all, that's what Brexit means.
 
This is significant. The Tories can give us chlorinated chicken or carve up the NHS and there's nothing parliament can do.
 
Now, I don't know why you were afraid of Turkey.
 
Adisa said:
This is significant. The Tories can give us chlorinated chicken or carve up the NHS and there's nothing parliament can do.
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It's bloody shameful. Cowards, the lot of them, avoiding any responsibility.
 
711 said:
Did you see Soubry in parliament? Now I don't like her as a person or a Tory, but she stood and demanded to know what Brexiters had to say to her constituents who were going to lose their jobs. That's what Labour MPs should be doing, repeatedly in parliament but in every interview and at every opportunity. Not just them but Remain supporters too, less whinging about alleged stupidity, how old voters are and campaign overspending and more hammering home the economic realities. Job losses, less revenue and tax rises for all, that's what Brexit means.
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To be fair Soubry is torn to shreds by Hardline Brexiteer rags.
 
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