Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Devil_forever said:
Let's get real here, if it wasn't going to be the will of the people being carried out, there wouldn't have been such extensive campaigning. The people have decided, it's democracy, respect it and accept the future.

If you lot got your wish and the will of the majority is ignored, I'd rather not live in a country like that.
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I do agree in principal but this is a decision that has global ramifications for decades that was sold on lies and misinformation and only just won. Given what has happened so far I'd guess remain would win if the vote was taken again tomorrow.

If there had been a clear majority you'd have to say fair enough but it was neck and neck. Something as huge as this should be compulsory for the entire country to vote on, then you can claim an actual majority. As it stands now only some 35% of the population actually voted for this.
 
Devil_forever said:
Let's get real here, if it wasn't going to be the will of the people being carried out, there wouldn't have been such extensive campaigning. The people have decided, it's democracy, respect it and accept the future.

If you lot got your wish and the will of the majority is ignored, I'd rather not live in a country like that.
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You mean the will of the plurality?
 
Untied said:
The democratic process isn't without significant failings.

If 52% of people voted to take away the vote of 48% should it be enacted?

What about if 52% of people voted to take away 48% of people's citizenship?

What about if 52% of people voted to take away 48% of people's EU citizenship and EU vote?
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What if 52% of the people voted to have the other 48% join the Nights Watch?

Good luck getting any of those issues on a ballot. :lol:
 
From the BBC:

A sharp age, wealth and educational divide between Remain and Leave voters has been revealed.

Polling carried out for former Tory party donor Lord Ashcroft exposed deep differences between the pro and anti-Brexit camps.

While 73% of voters under 25 wanted to stay in the EU, 60% of those aged over 65 opted to leave, the survey of 12,369 people on referendum day showed.

Remain was also the preferred stance of 62% of 25 to 34-year-olds, narrowing to 52% in the 35 to 44 range, before Leave took a majority among 45 to 54-year-olds with 56% backing, expanding to 57% in the 55 to 64 bracket.

Surprise at the referendum's outcome was underlined by the findings which showed that more than half of Leave supporters, 54%, expected to lose, and overall 70% of those who cast ballots believed Remain would win.

While Remain won the backing of 57% of the top earning AB social group, Leave was supported by 64% of C2DEs.

A clear majority of university educated voters went for Remain, while most people whose education ended at secondary school level or earlier supported Brexit.
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It's just sad that a bunch of idiots get to decide the future of this country.
 
People bought into the £350,000,000 going to the NHS, when we told them that it was a lie it was 'scaremongering'. Oh look, they've announced it's a lie.
People bought into the immigration issue being sorted, when we told them it was a lie it was 'scaremongering'. Oh look, they've announced it's a lie.
The Bank of England told them we were better off remaining, and we should stay. They told us that it was 'scaremongering' and that the economists and all the experts were simply looking after their own interests. Now that the economy balked overnight the people are all of a sudden trusting the Bank of England to sort it, when two days ago they were agenda driven fear mongers with only their own interests at heart.

As a society we are really unintelligent. Not pointing out people specifically but talking as a whole. Nobody wants to do research. If Boris says something, they don't want to research it to find out if it's even true. If Cameron says something, they don't want to research it. If it sounds good to them, it's true. "Britain is a big country, yep sounds good to me, trade deals will therefore be a piece of piss." I wish the world worked like that but it does shame me that as a society we lap this shit up.

Why as a society when we realise we've been lied to, and it was apparent weeks ago that we'd been lied to many times, why isn't the view of the people 'hang on, he just lied to my face. Maybe I should rethink what I'm doing'. Why isn't it. Why are we content to just overlook it, or feel that the way we deal with this is to instead point to the other side and point out ways that they've lied too. How does that in any way excuse the fact that this person still lied to us. We condone it by doing this. We sidetrack dealing with an important thing and say that because someone else does it too it's okay. 'Yeah but Cameron is a cnut as well.' I'm single, so maybe I'm not the best to talk to about relationships but I strongly doubt if I was trying to entice a girl to leave a guy for me, that the right way of doing it would be to say 'get with me, I do lie but come on, he lies to you too.' Maybe you shouldn't lie to me at all if you want me to come around to your way of thinking. People kicked off after the last election because the Tories got in. Then those same labour voters who kicked off on social media just voted with the tories. The people they hate. They voted with them. They voted for a man who is on public record as making both racist and homophobic remarks who once passed his colleagues home address to a criminal so that he could be beaten up. This is the calibre of the man that people just sided with. Why don't we say 'hang on a minute, you're a disgusting person. I'm not voting for your ideal, why don't you feck off and let someone decent take over'. We don't, we say 'yes he may be a disgusting human, but so is the other guy so it's all fine'. This is ridiculous.

Society as a whole just seems ridiculously unintelligent these days. Nobody wants to ask a question and are too prepared to take whatever sounds good to them at the time. Kick off about Tories, then vote with them and give them the power. Say we're sick of experts, then say we're confident they'll get us an amazing deal. Tell the Bank of England they're scaremongerers who only look after their own interests, trust them to fix the issue. Announce through our votes that we disagree with every single political party in the UK besides UKIP, then ask for a general election.

When a political leader is asked a hard question and just deflects it like Boris deflecting economy questions by saying 'I think we've had enough of project fear'. Why did the public not outcry 'hang on, give an answer. You just dismissed it without even considering it'. Boris's answer should have been 'I think we've had enough of project fear, what you're proposing isn't going to happen because A, B and C.' But he didn't. And nobody cared about that. Can we really kick off about the way politicians behave when we're too lazy to demand the treatment we deserve?
 
Sigma said:
From the BBC:



It's just sad that a bunch of idiots get to decide the future of this country.
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It's not about education in terms of being 'elite' or 'all knowing'. For me it's more about the kind of people who will actually go out and build companies, produce services and ultimately provide something to the wider society.

People like that (I think) don't fear Europe or some Polish lad taking their job. It's actually quite sad that some people feel so limited with their own lives.
 
Someone I work with (a lad of 19) decided how he would vote by flipping a coin.

He voted leave.


I have been seriously pissed off about all this, the majority of my anger is directed at the older generations who voted leave (75% of 18-24 year olds voted remain). Now the younger generations will not get the rights and opportunities such as living, working and studying in the EU - that the elders have enjoyed. It is yet another piece of the legacy of the baby boomer generation who seem hell-bent on cocking things up as much as possible for the future.

I also think that, when looking at the uninformed and ignorant, a vast majority more of that 'demographic' will have voted leave. There are informed and intelligent people on both sides of the debate with valid reasons, but the leave campaign also got to rely on the racists, xenophones and plain old idiots, to buff their numbers up.

Bah.
 
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Devil_forever said:
Let's get real here, if it wasn't going to be the will of the people being carried out, there wouldn't have been such extensive campaigning. The people have decided, it's democracy, respect it and accept the future.

If you lot got your wish and the will of the majority is ignored, I'd rather not live in a country like that.
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Democracy is easy when you agree with the majority. Bit harder when you don't.

I couldn't argue against armed rebellion at the point where Parliament refuses the will of the people it asked to decide.

Laughing at the people saying all the Brexit voters shouldn't be allowed to vote because they are too stupid, just like the high Tories before the great reform act. It seems they want to go back on universal suffrage because the UK voted to leave a trade organisation.
 
Walrus said:
the majority of my anger is directed at the older generations who voted leave (75% of 18-24 year olds voted remain)
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The sad thing is had this vote been compulsory and everyone had to vote the result would likely have been remain since most of those who didn't vote were younger people.
 
Ixion said:
The sad thing is had this vote been compulsory and everyone had to vote the result would likely have been remain since most of those who didn't vote were younger people.
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Again. Proof?

Youth turnout was high, maybe down on the national average, but certainly not by anywhere near the amount it would need to be to make up nearly 2 million votes.
 
Devil_forever said:
Let's get real here, if it wasn't going to be the will of the people being carried out, there wouldn't have been such extensive campaigning. The people have decided, it's democracy, respect it and accept the future.

If you lot got your wish and the will of the majority is ignored, I'd rather not live in a country like that.
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To be fair the will of the people isn't going to be carried out. Most of the people who voted voted to close the boarders and restrict the number of people coming in. That is not going to happen.
 
Ixion said:
I do agree in principal but this is a decision that has global ramifications for decades that was sold on lies and misinformation and only just won. Given what has happened so far I'd guess remain would win if the vote was taken again tomorrow.

If there had been a clear majority you'd have to say fair enough but it was neck and neck. Something as huge as this should be compulsory for the entire country to vote on, then you can claim an actual majority. As it stands now only some 35% of the population actually voted for this.
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The left's respect for democracy is very flexible.

I remember in the 80s when Mrs Thatcher won 43% of the vote and embarked on a radical program of reform. The left-wing media were howling that, having less than 50% of the vote, her actions had questionable legitimacy. There were many articles in newspapers like the Guardian lamenting this terrible crisis in British democracy. Some years later, when Tony Blair formed a government based on 33% of the national vote, all these solemn concerns about the British electoral system were completely forgotten. :lol:
 
Will Absolute said:
The left's respect for democracy is very flexible.

I remember in the 80s when Mrs Thatcher won 43% of the vote and embarked on a radical program of reform. The left-wing media were howling that, having less than 50% of the vote, her actions had questionable legitimacy. There were many articles in newspapers like the Guardian lamenting this terrible crisis in British democracy. Some years later, when Tony Blair formed a government based on 33% of the national vote, all these solemn concerns about the British electoral system were completely forgotten. :lol:
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But you're comparing a General Election that occurs every 4-5 years to a one-off vote that is irreversable. People can regret a vote and change it at the next election, this cannot be undone.
 
Will Absolute said:
The left's respect for democracy is very flexible.

I remember in the 80s when Mrs Thatcher won 43% of the vote and embarked on a radical program of reform. The left-wing media were howling that, having less than 50% of the vote, her actions had questionable legitimacy. There were many articles in newspapers like the Guardian lamenting this terrible crisis in British democracy. Some years later, when Tony Blair formed a government based on 33% of the national vote, all these solemn concerns about the British electoral system were completely forgotten. :lol:
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It's as simple as that when you choose to ignore the bigger picture.

Blair, slimy cnut as he was, didn't destroy the country. I'm sure plenty of people still noted the lack of representation at the time. It becomes a whole different game when the people in charge are actually doing harm to the country and in this case, leaving the EU is doing just that.
 
Will Absolute said:
The left's respect for democracy is very flexible.

I remember in the 80s when Mrs Thatcher won 43% of the vote and embarked on a radical program of reform. The left-wing media were howling that, having less than 50% of the vote, her actions had questionable legitimacy. There were many articles in newspapers like the Guardian lamenting this terrible crisis in British democracy. Some years later, when Tony Blair formed a government based on 33% of the national vote, all these solemn concerns about the British electoral system were completely forgotten. :lol:
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You do realise that it was mainly labor voter who voted for this?
 
NinjaFletch said:
Again. Proof?

Youth turnout was high, maybe down on the national average, but certainly not by anywhere near the amount it would need to be to make up nearly 2 million votes.
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I'm not particularly convinced those that didn't vote would've voted remain, either. Young people engaged in politics tend to be left wing and more likely to want to remain but I'm not sure that's true of young people who aren't engaged.
 
I am quite surprised with the result since british are everywhere,travelling and living a lot abroad. This will cut your freedom to go everywhere.
You are trying to sell the idea that this has been a decision done by old ignorant and racist people but the "leave "has won in England,one of the most educated countries in Europe.
Is the pressure of muslims so overwhelming? ,are the polish so annoying?.From my experience they are good workers and quiet people.What do you mean with too many eastern countries people?gipsy romanians?
I don't know what will happen in France or Denmark but in Spain there won't be referendum and in that case the remain would win easily.Europe helped us a lot and now is time to help other countries.
I wonder what will happen with the hundreds of thousands of british living here,I guess that they will have to pay for the health.
I think that everything will be fine for UK,you are enterprising and competitive,however as a european I feel a bit disappointed.
 
There is absolutely zero chance of this referendum being overturned. Mechanisms and integrity of democracy would be destroyed. There would also probably be anarchy by brexiteers.
 
Sultan said:
There is absolutely zero chance of this referendum overturned. Mechanisms and integrity of democracy would be destroyed. There would also probably be anarchy by brexiteers.
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Is the responsibility of an elected representative body to follow the advice of a plurality of the people of its country or to do what is best for the country it is elected to govern?
 
The only hope is to negotiate a new acceptable deal with Europe and ask the nation for a referendum on that platform.
 
I wonder what most of the left-wingers would have thought if this discussion was raised by the mostly righ-wing 'leave' guys if the tables was turned and they lost the vote.

"oh, lolzies, look at the right-wing cnuts showing their true fascist colours, willing to throw democracy overboard since they didn't get their will".
 
Carolina Red said:
Is the responsibility of an elected representative body to follow the advice of a plurality of the people of its country or to do what is best for the country it is elected to govern?
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This. But they should've thought of that before issuing the referendum.
 
Ixion said:
But you're comparing a General Election that occurs every 4-5 years to a one-off vote that is irreversable. People can regret a vote and change it at the next election, this cannot be undone.
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As long as you recognize that, there's no problem. If, in 7 to 10 years, say, a majority of the British people are unhappy with the outcome of Brexit, and a majority of parliamentarians agree, the question could legitimately be revisited. Nothing is irreversible. But an immediate rerun of the referendum, simply because the losers didn't like the result, is absurd.
 
Will Absolute said:
As long as you recognize that, there's no problem. If, in 7 to 10 years, say, a majority of the British people are unhappy with the outcome of Brexit, and a majority of parliamentarians agree, the question could legitimately be revisited. Nothing is irreversible. But an immediate rerun of the referendum, simply because the losers didn't like the result, is absurd.
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It wouldn't be up to the British people at that point. It would be up to the European Union to undo what the Leave camp voted for.
 
How many elections would we need to appease everyone?

The rules were set prior to going to the polls. The end.
 
Will Absolute said:
As long as you recognize that, there's no problem. If, in 7 to 10 years, say, a majority of the British people are unhappy with the outcome of Brexit, and a majority of parliamentarians agree, the question could legitimately be revisited. Nothing is irreversible. But an immediate rerun of the referendum, simply because the losers didn't like the result, is absurd.
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Every person in the country and every MP could want to re-join at a later date but it is up to the members of the E.U. if we would be taken back. It would no longer be our choice, a single member could veto us joining again. We can choose to leave but not to go back in, that is why it is irreversable.
 
Sultan said:
How many elections would we need to appease everyone?

The rules were set prior to going to the polls. The end.
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The rules say that the referendum is not legally binding. How hard is that to understand? Parliament is under no legal requirement to follow the referendum.
 
Ixion said:
Every person in the country and every MP could want to re-join at a later date but it is up to the members of the E.U. if we would be taken back. It would no longer be our choice, a single member could veto us joining again. We can choose to leave but not to go back in, that is why it is irreversable.
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Imagine an independent Scotland 10 years down the road vetoing England's re-entry into the EU.
 
SwansonsTache said:
I wonder what most of the left-wingers would have thought if this discussion was raised by the mostly righ-wing 'leave' guys if the tables was turned and they lost the vote.

"oh, lolzies, look at the right-wing cnuts showing their true fascist colours, willing to throw democracy overboard since they didn't get their will".
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Exactly.
 
Kind of hard to not think of the 'leavers' as gullible morons. I mean each day that passes now proves just how much they were duped.

Sometimes, it just is the way it is.
 
Sultan said:
How many elections would we need to appease everyone?

The rules were set prior to going to the polls. The end.
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The poll was just a suggestion, there is nothing legally binding about it. We elect people to make these decisions.
 
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