So FIFA is democratic then?
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- Thread starter Silva
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So FIFA is democratic then?
- Turkey weren't trying to join and aren't even interested.
- The EU is a foreign policy program, logically every country is sovereign and his voice is equal to any other country, in EU council. In the parliament, seats are based on member states' populations.
- The UK have the most rebates of all countries, less money go back mainly because your agriculture is less developed than countries like France, Italy, Germany, Spain and others.
That still doesn't prevent the UK from leaving with no deal.
Is one man, one vote democratic then? Or should rich people get more of say in your view?
Absolute nonsense. At the time of the vote they were seeking full membership. There are plenty of articles about this.
It's also not true, I assume that he is talking about the "divorce" bill. It's based on the shares that the UK accepted to pay in the various projects and the EU budgets, minus the shares that the UK owns in the various EU projects and real estates. Said budgets are generally based on GDP.
Yeah there were a few scaremongering articles saying that Turkey were trying to join. It was an unfounded claim perpetuated by Farage and ilk
No seriously, they weren't. Some UK politicians went with that nonsense at the time which is kind of crazy.
Edit: Also, it's one of the thing that is subject to vetos, so anyone can prevent it forever.
I think if the UK was extremely desperate to get out of the EU they could have just left. In any case paying the divorce bill or not, the EU isn't forcing the UK to stay.
Haha. That’s right any articles you read were of course fact, any articles someone who voted leave were fake news. Heard it all before. ‘That was an opinion piece’ is a particular favourite.
It's not nonsense. You are believing Boris' crap. Turkey does not even remotely qualify to join the EU, furthermore some EU countries (Greece) would never allow it. It was always a baseless claim.
Thanks for agreeing that Turkey being in the EU was a non-starter.
No they weren't and each and every single member of the eu has the ability to veto new additions.
Also can you tell me how every country having an equal vote is dictatorial in any way shape or form?
Isn't that what you ate doing too? Dismissing the other side as scare mongering?
Dude, Turkey has been an EU applicant since 1987 and a candidate for full membership since 1999!
They weren't any closer to full membership before the Brexit vote than they are now or any time in the last decades.
It's the Us vs Them type of mentality. There are two degrees here, first people will casually consider that the EU is a monolith and won't consider that it's made of dozens of countries with the same right to self determination and sovereignty, it's clever because lots of people don't care about the EU or foreign policy so it's easier to focus them on an easily identifiable opponent. The second part is to consider that even if we are talking about 27 sovereign countries they somehow all ganged up on the UK, France, Poland or wherever the narrator is from, which is just silly.
You guys are hilarious. I really don’t get why so many of you get so touchy over a subject that barely effects your day to day lives.
I came on here purely to offer some reasons why some people voted leave, that was all.
Some of you lot need a chill pill.
I came on here purely to offer some reasons why some people voted leave, that was all.
Some of you lot need a chill pill.
And most importantly, currently they are not interested. Today we are virtually talking about a different country, that has no intention to respect the ECHR.
This is exactly the mentality that led us to this potential catastrophe. People thinking that by the EU not allowing the UK to get not only their previous benefits but better deals than they have whilst in EU and better than its member states.
They just don't get it.
We've had people post in here about potentially losing their jobs, businesses moving abroad, British people who live in the EU and EU citizens living in the UK who have virtually no idea what their status will be after March 2019.
chill the feck out man. This is not a big deal. Why are you getting so worked up.
I don't think you 'get' Brexit.We know the reasons people voted leave. The question is whether they were legitimate reasons and not just because people told them a pack of lies and they believed them.
The Turkey issue being a prime example. The scaremongering was from the Leave side. Turkey do not qualify and are at least decades away from being qualified to join. Even if they did qualify the UK were able to veto them joining. So it definitely was not an issue, just another one of the many lies.
If you think leaving the EU with no deal will barely affect your day to day life, you are in for a terrible shock. Everything you currently take for granted will be affected.
More scaremongering you say, believe what you will, just come back to me a few weeks after if the UK do leave with no deal.
What is the point of scaremongering, the vote is over.
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Not sure people in NI worried about a hard border and the possibility of increased tensions and violence as a result would agree with that. Nor will anyone who runs a business that's being affected by this and has been offered no clarity yet re regulations etc.
It's the performance of their star negotiator, David Davis, that has convinced them.
Who told you this, the UK have agreed to pay it and it's not a figure plucked out of thin air. It's what the UK owe or will owe.
Scaremongering was 100% on both sides, you just look at it from one angle.
I distinctly remember George Osborne saying interest rates would increase and people would lose their homes.
There were quotes that house holds would be thousands of pounds better off if we remained.
David Cameron made reference to potential world war 3.
The idea that one side lied and other one didn’t is just untrue. Politician do anything to swing a vote.
There will always be singular examples of people who are effected by something but the vast majority of people since the vote two years ago have not seen much of an effect.
Have interest rates increased? No
Has fuel increased? Back to prices it was a few years ago
Have my house bills increased? No higher than they increased previously
Have my investments decreased in value? No they have increased.
Have food prices increased? Yes probably one thing that has been affected, would they increase anyway? Yes they find any reason to increase prices
Has the £ weakened? Yes against the dollar but agains the Euro it’s no different to the exchange rate we had for 5-10year before the BREXIT vote.
Inflation has increased back to ‘normal’ levels
But let me guess we haven’t left yet right?
Do you really believe they will make all EU residence leave the country? And your telling me all my news is fake?
The same people who told him that we don't have sovereignty and are letting in immigrants to take over the country. The same people who said we would be saving billions and would have more to invest if we were out of Europe. The same people who are pushing for a disaster so they can profit over the shorting of sterling and the economy at large.
The post you replied to similar the other post that said "calm down this won't have an effect on your day to day life" are a resounding indictment of the undeniable idiocy in their thinking and gullibility.
Imagine not knowing that when you leave that you can't expect to get the money that was coming to you as one of the major benefits of being part of the EU. Then imagine on top of that saying that the UK does not want to pay it when they have agreed to it knowing it is what the owe. They may not want to pay it as much as any of us would like not to pay for things but its what they owe.
People wonder why their intelligence is questioned when all they do is come up with drivel despite the facts even their government have admitted to. The facts are even if we arbitrarily accepted their "reasons" for leaving whatever motivation lay behind that, they have to admit that all those soundbites that they chose to believe have now been exposed as complete lies and manipulation. I understand why some double down considering how gullible they look now after the unravelling of their "sovereignty" sand castle.
@Josep Dowling you somehow seem to ignore the most basic fact that UK hasn’t left yet.
He did mentioned it at the end which makes the previous lines strange from a cognitive standpoint.
You can’t win with you lot, when markets fell and the pound weakened that was due to Brexit. Now it has all stabilised what has caused that exactly? The reality that things aren’t as drastic as you lot seem to want to make out?
This then goes back to my previous point that you’re all throwing about arguments based on future events that literally no one can predict.
I’ve had people tell me EU citizens will have to leave the UK. That has already been agreed that won’t happen and was never in a million years going to happen.
I’ve had people tell me a border will be set up at Ireland. It’s an EU tactic to get a better deal. Switzerland has exactly the same situation but there is no issue. Why would they allow travel through Switzerland with no issue but would with EIRE?
You keep telling me all my news is fake yet seem to believe everything you read, and that any issues will not be resolved with a solution.
Emm...Because Swiss accept freedom of movement for people and that’s the only workable solution possible something that UK has made a red line?
There’s a border into Switzerland.
Switzerland has borders, they have custom checkpoints and they are part of the Schengen area.
Yes, yes that’s right you knew all the facts and all I read was lies and deceit.
I have a different opinion so I must be intellectually inferior to you, and can’t make the ‘correct’ decision with the facts in front of me?
Throw in the racist card and xenophobia because anyone who voted leave just hates foreigners.
This group is just a load of remainers patting each other on the back. There is no grounds to have a reasonable discussion. It’s more like a cult.
There is of course a border but they abide to the EU’s free movement of people. Rather than arguing with everything I say maybe have a quick read on the internet. It’s not difficult to find.
it's not about me knowing all the facts. It's about you knowing known of them as you have been put straight time and again on here.
Your cage is rattled because I did not say everyone who voted leave is racist. Although you would like to hang your hat on that for the lack of an actual argument.
Although it would be nieve and stupid to think that there was not a significant undertone of it being leveraged by certain state actors in the campaign. Reasonable discussion can only be had when someone does not get basic facts wrong repeatedly despite the side your supporting having admitted the very thing your arguing against.
it is all irrelevant now. what IS relevant is that all the made-up benefits of leaving have been utterly exposed as the crock of shite they are and nothing more than scum taking advantage of gullible fools by feeding them stone cold falshoods. So now we ask what is going to happen? what now? Not even a modicum of a coherent plan or strategy moving forward. Absolutely nothing that's what and you know why? It's because they don't know. What we DO know however is that what they said in the campaign was out and out BS. Those are the only facts we do know.
I agree. About the only sensible comment I’ve seen on this board since my first post this morning.
It’s clear the government had no plan in place if we voted leave. That is typical of the UK parliament.
But these decisions are long, complex and we won’t even be in transition until next March. It was never going to be a quick decision.
I am confident resolution will be made whilst it’s clear most on here don’t think there will be. That’s fine, everyone is allowed different opinions. I just don’t like it when one group say they’re 100% correct and another is wrong. It’s all based on future events, no one knows the future so no one can be correct.
That’s not what you said though. And the subtleties are important.
Again you are saying you knew all the facts but anyone that voted leave is a ‘gullible fool’ now. Just such an exaggeration.
Over 50% of the nation voted leave. You really believe all those people voted leave based on some crappy slogan about extra money for the NHS? You really believe you’re more intelligental than all those people that voted?
There are a whole host of reason why someone would vote the way they did. BOTH sides lied, BOTH side tried to manipulate the vote in their favour. To say otherwise is ridiculous.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....ron-right-leaving-eu-brexit-increase-risk-war
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ornes-brexit-warning-george-osborne-2016/amp/
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36534192
You have your opinion, I have mine. No matter which way we argue we will never agree so I’m going to leave it here.