Its the hope that kills you with Corbyn.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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He's actually been fairly consistent. Is, was and always will be a Brexiteer. What kills is the fact we've a Brexiteer leading the official 'opposition' at a time when the government seem hell bent on pushing a Rees-Mogg wet dream style Brexit on us.
There hasn't been a single shred of evidence either in his years as an MP before the referendum or his actions post it that show he has ever had any interest in keeping us in the EU aside from half-arsed lip service he paid out of obligation to the Remain side when he 'campaigned' for them during the referendum itself. Let's not forget the calls to immediately trigger Article 50 the day after the vote.
And of course the white noise of his fanatics who get terribly upset if anyone notices. For Labour there's a danger that this will be viewed similarly in terms of betrayal as the Lib Dem promise on tuition fees. Young people voted overwhelmingly against Brexit and their only hope is placed in a man who has never had any desire to prevent it. Even top Corbyn cheerleaders within the party like George Aylett, in many ways the poster boy of the 'new' Labour party, support an 'at all costs' Brexit as is evident by looking at his Twitter feed.
That explains why the Lib Dems are polling at 40% everytime one is conducted.
@Oscie
Curious which party you voted for in the last 2 elections? Not going to look back thru old posts to find out.
Curious which party you voted for in the last 2 elections? Not going to look back thru old posts to find out.
Labour 2005 - 2015
Lib dems 2017
Temporary switch primarily due to Corbyn's pro-Brexit leanings. Thought, and still think, Brexit is the most important issue we face and Corbyn and co pretending we are obliged to endorse whatever Brexit the Tories can deliver is something I wont support
I can respect that stance. I’m pro-Corbyn on the vast majority of issues but it’s unfortunate that he’s obviously pro-leave.
My stance on it though is that Labour wouldn’t stand a chance against the Tories if they were pro-remain. The issue as you say is too important and it would force a lot of Labour voters to stay at home or even vote Tories just to make sure Brexit happens.
If Brexit is going to be stopped (sadly, it’s not) it will have to happen the same way under either government and that’s incredibly damaging terms going to a second referendum or something like a criminal investigation into Cambridge Analyitca’s involvement.
I’m firmly of the belief though that we will be voting to rejoin the EU within the next two decades. The baby boomers will have passed over to generation x and millennials who, along with the generation below be unhappy with their situation and looking to drastic change and feeling sentimental about how the EU used to protect our rights and the planet we live on.
Fair enuff
If only all those whinging right now had voted lib dems into govt there wouldn't be all this division. They are the people you need to direct your annoyance at, they have given you the govt and opposition you dislike.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/chris-wylie-testify-uk-facebook-cambridge-analytica-1.4594668
Will of the people y'all.
Which leaves us with a dishonest Labour party and a dishonest Labour leader. No one knows whether the party is for Brexit or against it, they're afraid to say. We do know what the leader wants but he won't admit it. All because it's going to be better for Labour at the next election, when the electorate are presumably expected to have forgotten all about it. Good luck with that Jeremy.
True.
I'm almost impressed by that last answer. Takes skill to find an answer to that question that's technically true but isn't "this is going to be a disaster, everyone abandon ship". It's going to be very different and we'll have exciting opportunities to bend over when negotiating with the US, China etc.
As long as nobody blames Brexiters for this mess eh Stan?
Solid effort
Woah.
Woah.
That "not" could probably do with being in flashing, incandescent neon...
Just so much wrong with the thought processes behind that comment.Kathyrn Leavesley.........
Short thread about the logistics of the Scandinavian borders, the TLDR is that it's impossible for Britain.
I think we will both be voting to Rejoin, for the reasons you give, and holding Iraq style enquiries into how we allowed ourselves to be so mislead into making such a catastrophic decision. As with Iraq, the political leadership of both parties won’t be able to escape their complicity in these events, whatever current tactical advantage labour think they hold.
My god people are angry enough over Iraq and the damage there was far away. Wait til you see the rage when all this crap really hits home.
Things like this make me abandon all hope. Even the strong remainers saying 'well we've voted now, so we just have to get on with it'.
"Well, I've been slapped in the face so now I'll just have to keep slapping myself in the face. Just have to get on with it."
Exactly. We'll see how long that lasts when the wheels start seriously coming off though.
Is there really anything people who want to remain can do ? Both major political parties have to stick to leaving as if they change a large part of their voting base disappears(The people fighting to remain are actually just fighting for things to go back to 2015, which clearly isn't very popular). The EU itself is a pretty obscure being, there's no solid ideas that people could go out and campaign for(Which was the biggest problem of the Remain campaign). And then the biggest problem, your arguing against a democratic referendum.
It's a tough tough sell.
yes keep shouting about it, protest, take co-ordinated work walkouts, anything but accept that half the country is allowed to feck you up the ass without even having the decency to lube up first
Because most of the remain side at the national level have done the same thing.
Maybe I guess but have you seen the pro eu marches, it's very very odd
There's no way this type of stuff can catch on with the general public(I'm not sure I would want it to)
Hold on your saying Vince Cable new image didn't work.
It doesn't make the slightest bit of sense for the two big parties to both be supporting leave though. Sure if Labour came out for staying then they would lose some votes. Yet why don't we think the same would happen to the conservatives with their remain voters changing to Labour? There's very clear things to campaign on, such as not wanting to explode the economy. As for the last point, perhaps if the 'democratic referendum' had actually been a truthful and informed debate instead of a pack of bloody lies, then it would be worth respecting.
Didn't Milband pretty much give people this option and was utterly rejected. Your asking people who happily voted for a arsehole like Cameron to switch over to Corbyn just based on staying in the EU, plus UKIP could pop up again.
This hasn't happened.......yet. So firstly people can and will just say that it's scaremongering, secondly the people who are saying the economy will explode are (Or at the very least perceived)as the same people who have been cutting hospital funding, causing the rise of food banks etc. Mark blyth who ''predicted'' Brexit talks about how he remembers watching Remain campaign in Sunderland during referendum and someone from the Remain camp was talking about the hit to GDP Britain will take if they leave the EU and a audience member shouted out - ''Your GDP''. There has to be more to the Remain debate then simply - the economy will go into the shitter as it already is for many people.
This is politics people lie all the time, the stakes were bigger in the referendum debate but the lying was nothing new. For however much we hate it there is a consistent argument with the leave vote - the UK voted to leave the EU so it's leaving(The debate is now centred around how the UK leaves). There is no consistency with Remain, it's clearly seen as being very angry over this one particular result rather than awful effects lying has on democracy.
The best people can hope for is a second referendum although even that is on potentially very very weak grounds.
I guess you keep arguing. Keep the pressure on your MP -because this could be stopped in parliament. And remember we are a parliamentary system not a direct democracy. I perseonally believe the referendum was poorly designed, the electorate was poorly informed (by both sides) and I don’t see why it should be considered the final word. Which I accept isn’t likely to be a popular view but given the stakes...
The idea both major parties are in a bind is bollocks.
At the very least the path of championing retention of CM and SM membership was open to Labour from the outset. It was something never explicitly voted on at all, it was not part of the referendum, it did not appear on the ballot papers. Farage, the Tories and the right-wing press decided to insist that these issues were on the ballot paper - when they weren't - and Corbyn decided to 100% go along with it. The idea Labour's position is a result of having a forced hand as opposed to being down to the fact its leadership is every bit behind a hard Brexit as Liam Fox, is a complete fallacy.
It's becoming really frustrating just how many people who can see how much of a disaster this will be, completely accept Labour's "Gosh, what can we do?" excuses for at least trying to temper it, when they've never actually made an effort to do anything.
Like Gene Wilder's perfunctuary "Stop. No. Come back" cries as the Willy Wonka character. There are a multitude of things that Labour could have done, could be doing and could do to mitigate the absolute fecking Tory boy wet-dream this Brexit will become. Stop pretending they/he gives a shit.
"Gee it's really hard for Labour. They don't want a hard Brexit but other than supporting a hard Brexit, sacking people who oppose it and generally doing sod all - it's hard to know what else they can do"
At the very least the path of championing retention of CM and SM membership was open to Labour from the outset. It was something never explicitly voted on at all, it was not part of the referendum, it did not appear on the ballot papers. Farage, the Tories and the right-wing press decided to insist that these issues were on the ballot paper - when they weren't - and Corbyn decided to 100% go along with it. The idea Labour's position is a result of having a forced hand as opposed to being down to the fact its leadership is every bit behind a hard Brexit as Liam Fox, is a complete fallacy.
It's becoming really frustrating just how many people who can see how much of a disaster this will be, completely accept Labour's "Gosh, what can we do?" excuses for at least trying to temper it, when they've never actually made an effort to do anything.
Like Gene Wilder's perfunctuary "Stop. No. Come back" cries as the Willy Wonka character. There are a multitude of things that Labour could have done, could be doing and could do to mitigate the absolute fecking Tory boy wet-dream this Brexit will become. Stop pretending they/he gives a shit.
"Gee it's really hard for Labour. They don't want a hard Brexit but other than supporting a hard Brexit, sacking people who oppose it and generally doing sod all - it's hard to know what else they can do"
First meaningful vote in 40 years. Shouldn’t have come about like this but it did. If it’s stopped I’m not sure what would happen on the streets, it would be pure chaos
That may not be a bad thing if anger is directed at no.10
However, if so many people are now regretting their leave vote as claimed in this thread, there should be street parties up and down the country. With no old folk invited right?
There’s chaos coming anyway.