No worries.
Another thing is that surely English, Scottish and Welsh folks (remainers particularly) will be pissed off about our lot getting that option (even if it's not a new development) when they don't.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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No worries.
Another thing is that surely English, Scottish and Welsh folks (remainers particularly) will be pissed off about our lot getting that option (even if it's not a new development) when they don't.
Well PM above that.
But I see your point. Neither soft or hard Brexit is the ‘right’ Brexit, no matter what either side thinks. It’s the perogative of the PM of the day.
Anyone else think the silence of JRMogg etc is rather eerie?
1922 committee plotting perhaps?
1922 committee plotting perhaps?
I feel like its a slightly different situation for Ireland and Scotland because majorities there voted to remain. Wales has less reason to complain IMO as the majority voted to leave, so there is no sense of it being dragged out of the EU by England.
Or maybe he just doesn't have the bottle. It's easy to stand in the sidelines and talk away, another thing to actually do the job. I don't think any politician really has the bottle for a Hard Brexit.
I suspect the main reason why high profile Brexit tories are quiet is because a leadership crisis will probably lead to another election, an election they at best will see a minority government.
There is definitely plotting going on behind the scenes.
London voted heavily to remain as well and with a high profile Mayor, I can see Khan piping up quite a bit.
EU Official said:
Send them a bill for 1945, what price freedom ?We need quotes
We shall fight them on the beaches ( Benidorm ) on the landing grounds ( Alicante airport ) and in the streets ( the old quarter of Torremolinos )
Aye, without doubt, just a matter of how far it goes.
Out with her eyes, let her smell her way to Brussles. We'll always have Shakespeare.
True, and that is definitely an issue, but again I think its a bit different. There is (as far as I know) no movement to get London out of England. London being part of England is not remotely controversial. So it is just a case of one region being outvoted by others within the same country.
But yes, I do expect Khan to make an issue of it, which is his prerogative.
Probably but I think May has been on a knife edge since the day after the last election.
I would love to be privy to some of the exchanges taking place between these arseholes right now.
He already did, he was tweeting about London staying in the custom union.
Popcorn to the ready!
Tuning into LBC for a quick listen, hopefully can gauge a view of folks.
Tuning into LBC for a quick listen, hopefully can gauge a view of folks.
Bloody Muslims, always trying to thwart the will of the people.
Oh yeah London is a completely different ball game to Scotland and Northern Ireland. Just suspect Khan will carry on speaking about and who knows if there is a domino effect.
One thing I suspect May has going for her is that the cnuts all hate each other. Can't imagine Johnson is very pally with Gove or Patel.
The '22 are avidly pro Brexit and this "deal" will not be to their liking plus this Tory party are spectacularly incompetent. So don't discount a move against May.
I'd love to see it as i firmly believe a Tory party led by Mogg or Johnson in particular would be absolutely hammered. With a Corbyn govt we could then start a whole new thread on Lexit...
https://www.newstatesman.com/politi...-lets-do-something-different-when-we-leave-it
Wahey
fair point
A bit harsh. We've only just discovered NI and RoI, so could have never considered such issues.
I think she is due to answer questions on Monday, will be interesting to see if they go for her then.
Another thought, if final deal can’t be agreed, does this mean these ‘agreements’ would be thrown out of the window?
I understand that is a possibilty. "Nothing's agreed till everything's agreed" as has been said. However, that will be around 15 months down the line, by which time the situation maybe totally different, for good or bad.
I'd love to see it as i firmly believe a Tory party led by Mogg or Johnson in particular would be absolutely hammered. With a Corbyn govt we could then start a whole new thread on Lexit...
Wahey
Johnson yes. With Mogg though I am not so sure. Certainly because of his background he would lose a number of votes. Then again he would capture many. In particular I would respectfully suggest that his view on scrapping the commitment to 0.7% of GDP to overseas aid would win him quite a number from all political colours. Charity begins at home is awfully persuasive.
You're right.
Anyway the talks should start in February, if the UK government are more clear, and end in October - plenty of time to do a deal
Got it.
Maybe behind the scenes she’s telling the hard Brexiteers, at least the EU will come to table this way and we know what we might get re deal. If we don’t like then whole different story.
Probably did her ‘NOTHING has changed....nothing has changed!!!’ in a screech.
They say not, part of this was an assurance about what would happen in Ireland in the event of no deal. But how would this be enforceable? I genuinely dont know Id be interested if anyone can explain the process.
Take a hypothetical, extreme kind of scenario to make the point. Imagine we made these concessions (eg paying £50bn or whatever, after we claimed there would be no significant bill at all) in order to open talks about the future trade relationship.
Now imagine Barnier turns round and tells us we can whistle for a special trade deal. Say Norway is rejected (because we dont control our borders) and Canada is also rejected (because it doesnt include services, and is therefore about as useful to us in the UK as a chocolate tea pot.) We want something of our own, something bespoke, something crafted to suit our needs. But the EU says no. We have to take one of the options on the table, but neither option is suitable. The Brexit team try to negotiate something but get nowhere. Barnier says if it isnt one of the off-the-shelf deals (Norway or Canada) it is WTO terms.
In that case, would the UK feel compelled to honour the terms of the agreement sketched out thus far in the first stage?
I think each element of the agreement would be treated differently. The bill I think we would end up paying because to not pay would be a default which would be bad for our own economy. There might be an independent arbitration to ascertain exactly what our remaining liabilities were, in terms of things we signed up to while we were members. I heard Davis say he thought an independent body would come up with a number much lower than the EU is coming up with. I have no idea if that is true but I imagine it could be. Either way, I imagine we would pay something so as to avoid defaulting on our debts which would affect market access.
But the rest of it would be much less certain. I dont see what holds the UK to assurances it has made about Ireland, for example. The principle is that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. So the agreement we reached today only means anything as the basis for future agreements. What we agree in stage 2 is valid with the condition that what was agreed in stage 1 is honoured. They can say it works the other way around too (if everything goes tits up in stage 2 we all fall back on what we agreed today) but I dont see how that can be the case. Its just words as far as Im concerned.
As a remainer myself why to I get the distinct impression from the tone of the arguments since the announcement earlier today that those in favour of remain are beginning to clutch at straws. Sad though it makes me say I do now believe that May was right and that Brexit means Brexit. We might all differ as to what that actually means but I do now suspect that in 2019 the UK will cease to be a member of the EU. All I can now hope for it that those in favour of Brexit are correct and that in the longer term my country is better off as a result. I have no desire or wish for the majority to be worse off. That some will be adversely affected is inevitable. No policy decision ever made has favoured everyone at the expense of no-one. There have always been winners and losers. As long as the winners outnumber the losers then I for one can live with that even if personally I turn out to be a loser.
Let me see if I am getting this right. 18 months of negotiations to end in a same sort of model as Norway? Keep the same 4 freedoms, paying the fee and not having a opinion on the laws made in Brussels?
I think James O'brien put it well today when he said both Hard Brexit and No Brexit have both become less likely.
Basically yes, but the fee will be higher and the UK can still jump off the cliff if they so wish.
Business and the City will decide the UK's future in the first part of 2018.
I guess thats what they call winning, no wonder I saw today here in Portugal the angry face of Farage on TV, now I understand why.
I do so hope you are wrong. Sadly however I must admit that if there are any key players as vindictive has you have been thoughout this debate against the UK then you may well be proved right.
There's nothing vindictive other than against people like Farage , it's just pure logic and inevitability as far as I'm concerned.
Trying to pretend the NI problem didn't exist is negligence of the highest order, pretending to offer people pots of gold that aren't there is disgraceful. It's all a tissue of lies. My sympathy with people who are so gullible to believe all this has worn thinner as time has progressed.
Hopefully the UK won't be too badly damaged. They could call the whole thing off tomorrow before it's too late and the improvement in the Uk economy would be a wonder to see but they won't.
Sorry Paul but you are just coming over as nasty. As someone born in the UK even if no longer resident what the heck did we do to you?....... Whatever it was must have been bad.
He might be right. But I believe that once we reach a stage where the options are soft brexit or no brexit, then the only possible answer is no brexit. For the simple fact that a soft brexit gives us nothing as an advantage, while retaining the disadvantages.
While I fundementaly disagree with a hard brexit, at least the brexiteers can mantain the narrative of closed borders/control/trade freedom etc.
This middle ground option is a guaranteed loss for all sides, as far as I can see.
If any tories genuinely believe they can make a hard brexit work then they will push for a new PM. Otherwise, they will keep sniping from the sides and blaming everyone else.
Insulting another member
Remember that he is currently drinking french water.
Oh well if thats the reason then as a Brit who is evidently xenophobic what can I say.....hmmm
I don't mean to come over as nasty, I'm very friendly really, believe it or not. I have an allergic reaction to liars. Frustration at why people can't see they're being conned. And I have zero sympathy with racists or xenophobes.