I do enjoy that he purposefully undermines May at every cost. He always gives the Tory line before adding something that makes May and Davis look like idiots
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I do enjoy that he purposefully undermines May at every cost. He always gives the Tory line before adding something that makes May and Davis look like idiots
This is unacceptable for both sides, remainers and brexiteers.
I hope there is some crazy long-play going on, but I don’t think these lot are smart enough for that.
Not sure who I am more annoyed at; the people in charge or the others on the sidelines just watching it melt down (Reece-Mogg, Boris etc). Step in FFS!
I hope there is some crazy long-play going on, but I don’t think these lot are smart enough for that.
Not sure who I am more annoyed at; the people in charge or the others on the sidelines just watching it melt down (Reece-Mogg, Boris etc). Step in FFS!
Isn't Johnson also in charge?
Securing Brexit is this Government's primary task, and for good or ill they are the only show in town. I know we have a lot of Labour supporters on this forum but there's no basis for believing the party would do its duty any better. Brexit notwithstanding, Corbyn is still to make his ums add up and May would be removed before any future election.
How is remaining a member of the Single Market and Customs Union 'still a Brexit'? For all intents and purposes the view of Leave voters will have been totally disregarded (sort of how the EU Ref became a reality).
Idk, the current policy seems to be change nothing but the name of the British-European relationship. Sounds aite to me.
Im not sure what is worse - the Government hiding impact assesments or there being none in the first place.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...avis-bluffing-brexit-clear-impact-assessments
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...avis-bluffing-brexit-clear-impact-assessments
In that case, it's done. The only thing needed was to notify their EU partners.
No Labour supporter here,
It's very simple : just go , pay what you owe, leave the SM and CU, you know that means : a hard Irish Border and you know that the City will lose its Passporting rights and you know you will revert to WTO rules. Congratulations, is that what you voted for.
If you want to be obtuse, fair enough.
It’s exactly what people voted for, and nothing more. The ballot said EU, not single market/customs union.
Because we would have left the European Union which was what the referendum was about! The EU isn't simply the Single Market and Customs Union. We can't really go on about the made up fantasies about what Brexit was from Leave voters in hindsight.
Contrary to the aspersions of many Remainers, I do actually grant those on the oppsoing side with a degree of intelligence. So to claim that a reprsentative bulk of Leave voters were intent on maintaining the status quo, is either lying to yourself or lying to me.
In which way am I being obtuse? Securing brexit literally equates to sending the withdrawal letter which has been done earlier this year, the rest has nothing to do with securing it.
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What I mean is that, if your interpretation of Brexit is the correct one then the government delivered it because it's an unilateral action, you just have to withdraw and then there is the two years until the official end of all treaties.
Now, if Brexit is something else then there is a need to secure it, but in that case it's one of the version of "soft" Brexit and no one really knows what that term means.
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I don't think you can clarify what the bulk of Leave voters were intending on. Even if we were to believe you personally represent the views of a "bulk" of Leave voters, then that wouldn't be a majority of the country.
You and the rest of Leave should have proposed a clearer question outlining what Brexit would have actually entailed. I certainly didn't see any of that.
That’s a lot of words to essentially say people voted for something more granular than the binary question on the paper. Perhaps we should now clarify what said people intended, instead of assuming.
It’s hard to maintain:
People who voted Leave weren’t stupid
And
People who voted Leave understood that leaving meant leaving the customs union and single market
Because anyone with a reasonable amount of intelligence would understand that the second causes intractable problems re: Ireland.
I guess you could say most Leavers don’t give a shit about Ireland, but that is really just another way of saying they are ignorant.
In latest news: Brexiters have no idea what they voted for.
Brexiters seem to have somehow gained an insight into why 17.5m people voted leave on the day of the referendum. This statement is a prime example of that.
Hiding that there were no impact assessments?
Which is what seems to have happened.
We have a winner.
Fair enough, that’s one way of looking at it
But regardless of Remain or Leave, isn’t Boris just witnessing the utter balls-up of Brexit from within. It’s almost worse!
Boris has shown to be largely incompetent as the Olympic Stadium deal has only recently just highlighted so I imagine he is doing more than just witnessing this feck up.
I don't think incompetent is the apt word; corrupt is, perhaps.
He is more than just witnessing, his minister is supposed to be one of the main providers when it comes to information and direction. The EU is a foreign policy matter and the relationship between the UK and the world after Brexit is his responsibility.
This mess is highlighting, the problem between the UK and continental Europe, a part of your politicians are not aware of their responsibilities and they blamed everyone other than themselves because of it.
No words...
Seems that way. It's really only a small section of a quite far right wing(Something similar to the US republican party)that actually want this to go through. Almost all of British Capitalism(Literally the whole point of the tory party is to serve and maintain British Capitalism)wants things to stay the same.
But aren't his diplomats going around and telling people that he talks to to ignore everything that he says?
Hmm but here’s the thing it’s not even as if the hardcore Brexiteers have hijacked it and are holding anyone to ransom etc.
Everyone just seems to be passively watching as a failing leader (and Govt) just tries to bumble through.
Once again I sincerely hope this is a grand play!!
Everyone just seems to be passively watching as a failing leader (and Govt) just tries to bumble through.
Once again I sincerely hope this is a grand play!!
But that's a massive problem, he is supposed to represent the United Kingdom's position at international level, if he doesn't know what he is currently doing, where he wants to be in the near future and how to actually do things then you are in big trouble because the EU are notoriously difficult in negotiations but other countries and trade areas aren't exactly easy. You are heading towards WTO rules for a very long time.
Brexit or no Brexit, you need to get rid of them and make sure that they never get close to the top ever again, they are an actual threat for the country.
Well you were the one always talking a big game how we shouldn't throw all leavers into the xenophobic bucket (which is still accurate for the majority mind), now that has suddenly changed and all those 'moderate' leavers aren't representative?
I'd actually accept your explanation that almost all leave voters support the idea of leaving the single market if you'd accept the fact that almost all leave voters voted out of xenophobic misleading paranoia.
Where do you draw the line of what the vote meant? Every brexiteer who talked at depth about it wants the UK to remain part of some things (concerning security at the very least, but also in education, science etc.). Who decides what the vote meant and what it didn't mean, if leaving the EU without leaving the customs union is a betrayal of the vote?
Thanks for this Wibble. I'm sorry to hear about the possible negative impact of Brexit on your son's water polo options but this really doesn't address Jippy's wild assertions. My point is that the term abroad obviously extends to beyond Europe. There's a tendency in this thread to forget about the world beyond European confines.
More than a "tad OTT". I agree movement outside of the EU may well be a struggle but that has nothing to do with Brexit. It may well prove the case even that movement outside of the EU might be made easier as part of any negotiations with new trading partners? As for the rubble and rats prediction it's hysterical nonsense as he's acknowledged.
I totally agree with you.
What are you talking about? Did you even understand the point I was making?
My point is, look how difficult emigrating outside of Europe today. For the UK outside of the EU and EEC, Europe will become equally as difficult and full of red tape.
That's something like 30 countries off the table immediately that previously were as easy to emigrate to as just jumping in your car and heading off.
Oh yeah, I'm sure the UK Brexit voters will be delighted to make movement easier to the UK from outside the EU which is much more likely to be countries such as India.
Heh, note India wasn't included in the list of countries here. Quite funny seeing Lord Bilmoria turn Liam Fox the other way about a post Brexit-deal with India.
Hey pal shelve the unwarranted hostility. My point is clear. Brexit will not completely destroy peoples chances of living abroad nor will the country be reduced to rat eating rubble dwellers. It's hyperbolic nonsense. Simple.
As for movement outside of the EU as a result of any new trade deals I simply posited that as one door closes another may open. What brexit voters feel about that is another matter.
I grant my cat with a degree of intelligence but I wouldn't trust him to resolve a complex issue around international politics with a simple one word answer.