Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Garethw]

They are democratically elected. We voted them in to make decisions for us.

Then what is the point in us voting for anything if the decision of the majority is pushed aside because it doesn't match with the feelings of a politician?

Why bother calling a referendum at all if the publics opinion doesn't count?

You live and die by the sword my friend. Only time will tell if the shit really is going to hit the fan.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

No, the purpose of representative democracy is to give the people power over who governs them, not to take it away from them.

So I presume you are not a fan of the parliamentary system?

 

[Zarlak]

Every single eligible individual in this country had the opportunity to vote on Thursday.

The monarchy shouldn't even be mentioned in this conversation as they are virtually irrelevant from a decision making point of view.

The House of Lords wanted to remain but despite this the country is leaving the EU. The people voted against them. So again not relevant.

The media are influential, but from my experience have been very pro remain.

Rightly or wrongly the majority of the people in this country have voted to leave.
We are leaving the EU despite the objections of pretty every senior politician in the country. Surely that is the very definition of a democratic society?

You just twisted the point, the relevance is that nobody cares that the House of Lords is unelected. It's a non issue for Britain who never mentions it or says anything about it. But all of a sudden 17 million people decide they don't want to be governed by the EU because they're unelected and unelected is awful. But we're still governed by unelected people. But they don't actually mind being governed by unelected people. Also the EU bureaucrats are elected. So actually what they just did was vote no to being governed by elected bureaucrats that barely govern us anyway and voted to instead be governed by unelected bureaucrats. Logic.

 

[Mozza]

I find it hilarious that leavers are so fearful of TTIP when any deal we make with America for free trade will be a version of it with much worse terms than the EU can negotiate as we are not as big as them

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

They decided to hold a referendum though didn't they?

 

[Adisa]

Explains calls for a constitution in some quarters.

 

[Ubik]

From Duncan Weldeon, ex Newsnight economics editor.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

The only problem with that, is that delaying article 50 for as long as we want, hurts our economy more.

It is a bigger problem for the EU. The whole thing is on the ropes economically and socially.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

I find it hilarious that leavers are so fearful of TTIP when any deal we make with America for free trade will be a version of it with much worse terms than the EU can negotiate as we are not as big as them

I'm guessing we don't send you in to negotiate for us.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I'm guessing we don't send you in to negotiate for us.

Or Jeremy Corbyn

'Hi chaps, I hope everyone is well and good, now where would you like me to bend over'.

 

[2ndTouch]

Perhaps we should have stayed in the trading block that was about to suck us into TTIP, the reason Obama came here at the behest of his corporate paymasters to warn us that we would be last in the “queue” (??) for any trade deals with America if we Brexit. (Hopefully we’ll no longer be first in the “queue” when America is looking for partners in its illegal wars.) Under TTIP the NHS would not only have been privatised, multi-national corporations would have had a feeding frenzy over it. Canteens run by Monsanto anybody?

I won't comment on the various other pieces of uninformed sound bites with little to no actual substance behind it.
But this one here is very amusing in particular.
Do you know who is the spearheading advocate among the EU Commission for most possible toxic TTIP version here in Europe? Yours sincerely Jonathan Hill, member of the british conservative party and David Camerons champion in Brussels
So do you know what this means? Those powers within the EU who are favoring that approach have been signficantly weakened by the Brexit.
The TTIP negotiations have already been pushed back to a date of 2018 earliest. And now, that the UK doesn't have a say in it anymore, we're likely to get a less toxic deal.
You guys on the other hand, are now completely at the mercy of your very own government, which by coincidence wants a TTIP as corporate-friendly and anti-consumerist as possible.
Enjoy!

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Every single eligible individual in this country had the opportunity to vote on Thursday.

The monarchy shouldn't even be mentioned in this conversation as they are virtually irrelevant from a decision making point of view.

The House of Lords wanted to remain but despite this the country is leaving the EU. The people voted against them. So again not relevant.

The media are influential, but from my experience have been very pro remain.

Rightly or wrongly the majority of the people in this country have voted to leave.
We are leaving the EU despite the objections of pretty every senior politician in the country. Surely that is the very definition of a democratic society?

Is it democracy when people are tricked into believing false truths?

 

[Garethw]

You can say this is a democracy all you what however, there's a lot of people that didn't know what they were voting for and bought into the lies of the leave campaign. Many of the people that voted leave don't realise how negative this move is and it's perfectly possible that many regret their choice. I think if we did another referendum tomorrow remain would win with all the people that regret their vote changing to remain and all those that were over complacent also coming to vote.

But where does it stop?

If the majority decide that we should remain do we call a third referendum to give the "out" brigade another chance? What about a fourth after that?

It's all getting completely ridiculous.

 

[villain]

Every single eligible individual in this country had the opportunity to vote on Thursday.

The monarchy shouldn't even be mentioned in this conversation as they are virtually irrelevant from a decision making point of view.

The House of Lords wanted to remain but despite this the country is leaving the EU. The people voted against them. So again not relevant.

The media are influential, but from my experience have been very pro remain.

Rightly or wrongly the majority of the people in this country have voted to leave.
We are leaving the EU despite the objections of pretty every senior politician in the country. Surely that is the very definition of a democratic society?

Yeah you missed the point I was trying to make completely.

Having a Monarchy and a group of over 700 unelected officials in the HoL isn't democracy.

If the Queen wanted to, she could reject any laws that have gone through Parliament, her signature on the bill is the last confirmation needed to enact anything that comes into power. She has that ability. Again, that's not democracy.

Having a monopolised media giant owned by Murdoch with it's own agenda on TV and in newspapers isn't democratic and is possibly the biggest influence on voters, especially The Sun.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

Or Jeremy Corbyn

'Hi chaps, I hope everyone is well and good, now where would you like me to bend over'.

Yeah, Corbyn was anti EU until he became Labour leader. Then he changed his mind.
It's not that improbable that BJ would change his mind if he became PM. And lead us back in.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

But where does it stop?

If the majority decide that we should remain do we call a third referendum to give the "out" brigade another chance? What about a fourth after that?

It's all getting completely ridiculous.

In my opinion remain should always be getting the benefit of the doubt in a vote like this because it's the safest option. Leave should have had to have got a 60/40 majority in order to win the referendum as that's the only way we could be sure that enough people were behind the idea in support. if the nation is a split as it is now then there's no way we will survive on our own and we need Europe more than ever.

 

[Fully Fledged]

Then what is the point in us voting for anything if the decision of the majority is pushed aside because it doesn't match with the feelings of a politician?

Why bother calling a referendum at all if the publics opinion doesn't count?

You live and die by the sword my friend. Only time will tell if the shit really is going to hit the fan.

It won't be. The Commons will up hold the vote. I'm just saying that they shouldn't. The thing should have never gone to a public vote in the first place. What do we do next give people a vote on if we should use Nuclear weapons and if yes who we should use them on? After all democracy.
Decisions like this one should be made by people who have all the facts, have studied them carefully and have come to a clear calculated conclusion on the correct course to take. We elect politicians to protect us from ourselves.

 

[NinjaFletch]

It won't be. The Commons will up hold the vote. I'm just saying that they shouldn't. The thing should have never gone to a public vote in the first place. What do we do next give people a vote on if we should use Nuclear weapons and if yes who we should use them on? After all democracy.
Decisions like this one should be made by people who have all the facts, have studied them carefully and have come to a clear calculated conclusion on the correct course to take. We elect politicians to protect us from ourselves.

The commons does overwhelmingly back remaining though...

 

[vidic blood & sand]

How do people here feel about a United States of Europe?
Are you up for it?

 

[Garethw]

I saw this on Facebook this morning;

"A Prime Minister resigned. The £ plummeted. The FTSE 100 lost significant ground. But then the £ rallied past February levels, and the FTSE closed on a weekly high: 2.4% up on last Friday, its best performance in 4 months. President Obama decided we wouldn't be at the 'back of the queue' after all and that our 'special relationship' was still strong. The French President confirmed the Le Touquet agreement would stay in place. The President of the European Commission stated Brexit negations would be 'orderly' and stressed the UK would continue to be a 'close partner' of the EU. A big bank denied reports it would shift 2,000 staff overseas. The CBI, vehemently anti-Brexit during the referendum campaign, stated British business was resilient and would adapt. Several countries outside the EU stated they wished to begin bi-lateral trade talks with the UK immediately. If this was the predicted apocalypse, well, it was a very British one. It was all over by teatime. Not a bad first day of freedom."

Is this legit or not?

 

[Fully Fledged]

[

Explains calls for a constitution in some quarters.

That's my point exactly.

 

[Fully Fledged]

The commons does overwhelmingly back remaining though...

I know but I expect them to uphold the vote. I don't want them to but I think they will.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I saw this on Facebook this morning;

"A Prime Minister resigned. The £ plummeted. The FTSE 100 lost significant ground. But then the £ rallied past February levels, and the FTSE closed on a weekly high: 2.4% up on last Friday, its best performance in 4 months. President Obama decided we wouldn't be at the 'back of the queue' after all and that our 'special relationship' was still strong. The French President confirmed the Le Touquet agreement would stay in place. The President of the European Commission stated Brexit negations would be 'orderly' and stressed the UK would continue to be a 'close partner' of the EU. A big bank denied reports it would shift 2,000 staff overseas. The CBI, vehemently anti-Brexit during the referendum campaign, stated British business was resilient and would adapt. Several countries outside the EU stated they wished to begin bi-lateral trade talks with the UK immediately. If this was the predicted apocalypse, well, it was a very British one. It was all over by teatime. Not a bad first day of freedom."

That's a terribly short sighted post that ignores all the long term implications this will bring. If he truly thinks that statements off the back of the result that are trying to calm the panicking masses are a good indication that everything is going to be fine then he's a deluded fool.

 

[Zarlak]

I saw this on Facebook this morning;

"A Prime Minister resigned. The £ plummeted. The FTSE 100 lost significant ground. But then the £ rallied past February levels, and the FTSE closed on a weekly high: 2.4% up on last Friday, its best performance in 4 months. President Obama decided we wouldn't be at the 'back of the queue' after all and that our 'special relationship' was still strong. The French President confirmed the Le Touquet agreement would stay in place. The President of the European Commission stated Brexit negations would be 'orderly' and stressed the UK would continue to be a 'close partner' of the EU. A big bank denied reports it would shift 2,000 staff overseas. The CBI, vehemently anti-Brexit during the referendum campaign, stated British business was resilient and would adapt. Several countries outside the EU stated they wished to begin bi-lateral trade talks with the UK immediately. If this was the predicted apocalypse, well, it was a very British one. It was all over by teatime. Not a bad first day of freedom."

Is this legit or not?

Facebook. The bastion of non-bias.

Here's another one.

"Good morning. Things that have already happened today:

- The pound has plummeted to a 30 year low
- Japanese stock market has crashed 8% and suspended trading
- Confirmation of another Scottish independence referendum
- Calls for an Irish reunification referendum
- Far-right nationalists across Europe now calling for referendums and the demise of the EU
- Hundreds of UK pension funds underwater
- FTSE is expected to open 10% down (the bankers knocked 8% off in the 2007 financial crash, so this is big)
- German DAX market expected to open 10% down
- HSBC is worth £10bn less since yesterday
- S&P has announced that UK now likely to lose its AAA credit rating
- In two hours (as of 7am) the UK economy has lost over £255bn, the equivalent of 40 years' worth of EU contributions
- Our Prime Minister has resigned
- The UK has down slipped down to the 6th largest economy
- Farage has already backtracked on availability of £350m for the NHS - "mistake"
- Dan Hannan has already said that it is likely that immigration won't change

Last time the markets fell like this, we had to spend £340bn to re-capitalise the banks. People have lost a fifth of their pension funds overnight. This is causing a complete bloodbath on the markets right now. If you voted Brexit, your savings are worth 31% less than they were yesterday.

And it's not just about money (not that Brexiters couldn't cope with a £190m net spend a week or anything) we are now looking at being solely governed by a party who want to rip up our worker's rights and privatise our healthcare system. You thought Dave and Gideon were bad, you wait till Boris and Gove."

That's the great thing about Facebook, you can just pick and choose what suits your agenda.

 

[Adisa]

How do people here feel about a United States of Europe?
Are you up for it?

You still believe this nonsense.

 

[Sphaero]

That's a terribly short sighted post that ignores all the long term implications this will bring. If he truly thinks that statements off the back of the result that are trying to calm the panicking masses are a good indication that everything is going to be fine then he's a deluded fool.

What I finde even more hilarious is that there is no mention of the clear rift between England and Scotland, which was ripped open again by the referendum. This might even be the most direct consequence every Brit will feel in a few years time.

 

[Boycott]

What happens to ukip now? They achieved their single issue.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

You still believe this nonsense.

I asked if people are up for it.
If not, why not?

 

[2ndTouch]

How do people here feel about a United States of Europe?
Are you up for it?

Hmmm, now with UKxas seceded, it's more worth thinking about it than before

 

[Massive Spanner]

What I finde even more hilarious is that there is no mention of the clear rift between England and Scotland, which was ripped open again by the referendum. This might even be the most direct consequence every Brit will feel in a few years time.

Yep, or the crashes that occurred yesterday, or the fact that Wales is fecked, and NI is fecked whether it stays or goes, or that the leave parties literally backtracked on their campaign promises hours after the result.

Anyone can make anything look good with one paragraph of pure drivel, that's how Brexit brainwashed 17,000,000 in the first place.

 

[Zarlak]

What happens to ukip now? They achieved their single issue.

They shift to non-EU immigrants.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

What happens to ukip now? They achieved their single issue.

They'll campaign to make sure the majority of restrictions are lifted during the negotiation process.

 

[Gambit]

Interesting point.

By that measure we have a very strong starting negotiating point. It also explains the hysterical reactions from the EU leaders yesterday. That said, since when has the EU cared about democracy or due process when it doesn't suit them? Expect Article 51 to appear by next week.

They can't until the next treaty amendment proposals which again won't be for years and we still basically have our veto which means we can block it from ever happening. Yes we the people voted out in a democratic way (we did for whatever reasoning but it has happened) we don't have to enact everything because of the EU's own system of political governance. The EU has a proven history of ignoring democratic votes if the government of that country chooses to. We're not tied into the Euro. Seriously, Johnson, Gove etc are the old style conservative party and the one they have is centuries of manipulating trade agreements for their own gains. We ended up with a world empire because of it We will become a EAA and we actually have the EU by the balls now. There will be some backing down once the divorce is decided but the UK is now the dominant power in the EU. Now I'm not saying this is a good thing in terms of the human nature of people but this may be the most seismic event ever in the fact the UK has so much power over the EU it's not even true. Make us an EAA member with special rules for our part or watch us dismantle the whole of the EU by forcing it it into impotent limbo. We're not tied to the Euro so they have literally no power over the UK to force us to re-vote as the did in Ireland. It's actually a scary shift of power when you think about it.

 

[JPRouve]

I saw this on Facebook this morning;

"A Prime Minister resigned. The £ plummeted. The FTSE 100 lost significant ground. But then the £ rallied past February levels, and the FTSE closed on a weekly high: 2.4% up on last Friday, its best performance in 4 months. President Obama decided we wouldn't be at the 'back of the queue' after all and that our 'special relationship' was still strong. The French President confirmed the Le Touquet agreement would stay in place. The President of the European Commission stated Brexit negations would be 'orderly' and stressed the UK would continue to be a 'close partner' of the EU. A big bank denied reports it would shift 2,000 staff overseas. The CBI, vehemently anti-Brexit during the referendum campaign, stated British business was resilient and would adapt. Several countries outside the EU stated they wished to begin bi-lateral trade talks with the UK immediately. If this was the predicted apocalypse, well, it was a very British one. It was all over by teatime. Not a bad first day of freedom."

Is this legit or not?

If I'm not mistaken the pound is lower than yesterday and at its lower in the past 4 months, french politicians want to renegotiate the Touquet agreement because we are not keeping the refugees who want to go to the UK, something that we are currently doing. And I heard that Brussel-Frankfort are totally against the idea of letting the UK access the European market for free.

 

[#07]

I saw this on Facebook this morning;

"A Prime Minister resigned. The £ plummeted. The FTSE 100 lost significant ground. But then the £ rallied past February levels, and the FTSE closed on a weekly high: 2.4% up on last Friday, its best performance in 4 months. President Obama decided we wouldn't be at the 'back of the queue' after all and that our 'special relationship' was still strong. The French President confirmed the Le Touquet agreement would stay in place. The President of the European Commission stated Brexit negations would be 'orderly' and stressed the UK would continue to be a 'close partner' of the EU. A big bank denied reports it would shift 2,000 staff overseas. The CBI, vehemently anti-Brexit during the referendum campaign, stated British business was resilient and would adapt. Several countries outside the EU stated they wished to begin bi-lateral trade talks with the UK immediately. If this was the predicted apocalypse, well, it was a very British one. It was all over by teatime. Not a bad first day of freedom."

Is this legit or not?

Misses some key details e.g. there's an election in France next year and a lot of French politicians are actively now saying Calais' border can get stuffed. It ignores the Spanish saying they want a Spanish flag on Gibraltar.

It also ignores the biggest point: The Bank of England creating £250 billion worth of new debt to support the financial system, and stop it going to cak. £250 billion. That's £250 billion that ultimately has to be covered by the taxpayer. Makes me so angry to even think about it.

This is only the start though. Natwest, RBS and Thomas Cook suspended currency exchange (link). We haven't begun to see the impact of our new situation on fuel prices, on food costs, on all the other stuff we import, and that is before the recession the Bank of England has predicted hits. Then we're gonna be asked how we keep spending on public services with a smaller economy.

I'm saving as much as I can from my wage every month. We're not even outside of the EU yet and its already getting bad. Just wait until the two year exit period ends. Its gonna be a 'mare.

 

[Drifter]

French demanding that we should trigger Article 50.

 

[Gol123]

A lot of Leave voters on my Facebook stream are calling for the same thing as you. Ok, let's do it, let's all pull together and build a new UK. To start with, can you tell us exactly what it is that we should be doing to achieve this, and in particular what you personally are intending to do to build this new Britain? Details would be particularly appreiated, so we can all get to work as soon as possible.

Push for a similar deal to Norway and then any losses on businesses leaving and trade going down will have to be made up elsewhere. Shift more towards Asia and the commonwealth rather then the EU. Sounds easier said then done.

 

[Ban]

One question about Northern Ireland. How much does their remain vote has to do with population. In the sense that has it anything with Catholic and Protestant population, Catholics voting to remain and Protestants voting to leave or it was more mixed?

 

[Fully Fledged]

I saw this on Facebook this morning;

"A Prime Minister resigned. The £ plummeted. The FTSE 100 lost significant ground. But then the £ rallied past February levels, and the FTSE closed on a weekly high: 2.4% up on last Friday, its best performance in 4 months. President Obama decided we wouldn't be at the 'back of the queue' after all and that our 'special relationship' was still strong. The French President confirmed the Le Touquet agreement would stay in place. The President of the European Commission stated Brexit negations would be 'orderly' and stressed the UK would continue to be a 'close partner' of the EU. A big bank denied reports it would shift 2,000 staff overseas. The CBI, vehemently anti-Brexit during the referendum campaign, stated British business was resilient and would adapt. Several countries outside the EU stated they wished to begin bi-lateral trade talks with the UK immediately. If this was the predicted apocalypse, well, it was a very British one. It was all over by teatime. Not a bad first day of freedom."

Is this legit or not?

All the FTSE 100 companies are large International companies they are not confined to the British market. The one that best reflects the state of the British economy is the FTSE 250 which was down 1245(7.2%) and the £ is at it's lowest level for 7 years.

 

[Gambit]

If I'm not mistaken the pound is lower than yesterday and at its lower in the past 4 months, french politicians want to renegotiate the Touquet agreement because we are not keeping the refugees who want to go to the UK, something that we are currently doing. And I heard that Brussel-Frankfort are totally against the idea of letting the UK access the European market for free.

Irrelevant, the actual fall is incredibly small. Frenc politician will want to renegotiate the touquet but serioulsy it's such piddling matter in the grander scheme. Dam right they don't want us to have access but they may have no choice.