Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Jippy]

The EU seem to be struggling to give us an itemised bill, in any case unless an overall deal can be done it won't happen, we will all tumble over the cliff together... what do they say, "only the lawyers will benefit"!



That's good!



Yes, that's what comes of working in the North East, lots of misguided souls up there, some even support their local football team? I thought Nissan had recently announced expansion plans for the North East? Someone was telling me it is Nissan's most productive plant anywhere in Europe, that's probably why Theresa has done them a 'special deal' on Brexit; although no one seem willing to announce what that is?




Because we are not in the EU...? They can get access to our markets on bi-lateral basis!



Yes I've read about the proposals and would being in the EU make any difference?
As I understand it one of the reasons for these tariffs being imposed is because Boeing have claimed 'state aid' has been used to subsidise Bombardier's manufacturing? Also since we are a customer of Boeings we have already put a shot across their bow over this, asking them to 'play nice'. I suspect given that Bombardier is a Canadian company, that's were this will get settled.

This is the way international trade works, is it not? There is a Brexit issue about our trading within the EU, that ideally needs to be settled by a 'deal', but as far as trade with the rest of the world is concerned we shall probably do at least as well, probably even better on our own.

The advantage of other countries dealing with the UK was that we were a bridgehead into the EU. We're a tiny market for the likes of China btw, they won't be banging our door down.
I'm from the NE and yep, Nissan got some undisclosed sweetener or other. We should get used to selling our arse for deals tbh.

 

[JPRouve]

Do you really think we would have protested against our American Overlords decision anyway? I mean we marched into an illegal war on his say so... so whats a few tarrifs
Not sure if your from Barca but genuinely whats the feeling there about trade etc if they declare independence?

He is from Bavaria.

 

[sun_tzu]

The advantage of other countries dealing with the UK was that we were a bridgehead into the EU. We're a tiny market for the likes of China btw, they won't be banging our door down.
I'm from the NE and yep, Nissan got some undisclosed sweetener or other. We should get used to selling our arse for deals tbh.

if we dont get tariff free access i can see the government having to pick up the bill - or otherwise give tax breaks to companies to compensate for it because as you say many non EU firms picked the UK as their European base albeit for a number of reasons but pretty much universal was customs / tariff free access to the common market.

 

[sun_tzu]

He is from Bavaria.

global game and all that I suppose - in fact ignore me I have no idea why i reah his name as FC barca - brain melt

 

[Jippy]

Okay, so that’s what you believe? Really? Wow. How does it benefit other countries when the market they gain access to is smaller than it would be otherwise?

I can only think of one and it’s the one that is going to happen: if anyone is even interested in having a trade deal with the UK (and at least for emerging countries, that’s not even guaranteed, as opening in their markets regulations when the markets access they gain in return is so small) the only benefit they will see from UK is not in the EU is that it’s way easier to push a small country around than a bigger one. The UK will be seen as a beggar and it’s indefinitely smaller as an economy and market as any of those countries it seeks to have deals with. How can you actually think they will get better deals as the EU.


As for the Bombardier situation, just google on Bush jr‘s Steel tariffs. They got killed pretty much instantly by the EU by threatening to lay tariffs on agricultural products from core republican states.
That mattered to Bush as we are talking about a 500 million people market. Do you really think he would have given in so easily to the much smaller UK?

It's staggering how ideology can blind people to fact and reason.

 

[Jippy]

if we dont get tariff free access i can see the government having to pick up the bill - or otherwise give tax breaks to companies to compensate for it because as you say many non EU firms picked the UK as their European base albeit for a number of reasons but pretty much universal was customs / tariff free access to the common market.

We can use that £350m a week.

 

[fcbforever]

global game and all that I suppose - in fact ignore me I have no idea why i reah his name as FC barca - brain melt

Tons of people do that, don't worry

 

[sun_tzu]

We can use that £350m a week.

I thought that was earmarked for the NHS?

 

[Jippy]

I thought that was earmarked for the NHS?

Oh shit yeah and don't mention sterling depreciation.

 

[Dan]

Oh shit yeah and don't mention sterling depreciation.

But it was overvalued.

 

[Sweet Square]

Well prior to the crisis, how did the EU ruin the Greek economy, and why was Greece in such a uniquely bad position that other countries were not?

My point is that the reaction from the EU towards Greece during and after the crisis(This was a crisis of global Capitalism, I'm not simply blame the EU) was borderline sadistic and was never going to work.

As Mark Blyth put it -

(17:35)

 

[Jippy]

But it was overvalued.

Think of the exports.

@Paul the Wolf dissected the Brexit argument brilliantly on the last page. Been on a short holiday, so not been thinking about it, but reminded me how angry the whole thing makes me.

 

[I Believe]

The advantage of other countries dealing with the UK was that we were a bridgehead into the EU

So they will be able to sell straight into the EU won't they, without using Britain as the middle man, did we take our cut..I forgot.. this is ludicrous? A significant number of the countries who did deals with the EU only did so because it gave them access to... Britain!

We're a tiny market for the likes of China btw, they won't be banging our door down.

They won't need to, unless that is the rest of the EU fails to take up the volume of sales from the Chinese that would have sold into the British market, if the EU cannot make up the short fall then the Chinese will need a deal with us, but the door will be open, they won't have to bang it down!

I'm from the NE and yep, Nissan got some undisclosed sweetener or other. We should get used to selling our arse for deals tbh.

Hah, Hah, selling our arse for deals, this is unbelievable, I thought you said you were a business journalist, how long have you been in the job?

 

[Jippy]

So they will be able to sell straight into the EU won't they, without using Britain as the middle man, did we take our cut..I forgot.. this is ludicrous? A significant number of the countries who did deals with the EU only did so because it gave them access to... Britain!



They won't need to, unless that is the rest of the EU fails to take up the volume of sales from the Chinese that would have sold into the British market, if the EU cannot make up the short fall then the Chinese will need a deal with us, but the door will be open, they won't have to bang it down!



Hah, Hah, selling our arse for deals, this is unbelievable, I thought you said you were a business journalist, how long have you been in the job?

I don't get your middle man argument. Of course we took our cut. We know that thousands of finance jobs are moving to the likes of Frankfurt, Paris and Dublin. That's thousands of high earners, paying lots of tax and spending their money here all disappearing.

Been in the job 17 years. Of course sweeteners happen everywhere, eg VAT discounts, enterprise zones, tax windows etc...to incentivise employers to come here. We're just likely to be more reliant on these arrangements since we can't offer single market access. Kinda stands to reason.

 

[C3Pique]

So they will be able to sell straight into the EU won't they, without using Britain as the middle man, did we take our cut..I forgot.. this is ludicrous? A significant number of the countries who did deals with the EU only did so because it gave them access to... Britain!

no words

 

[I Believe]

How can you actually think they will get better deals as the EU.

They can get tailored deals, don't have to satisfy the needs of 27 other economies... simples

PS Glad to see you're back, by the way does your fcb = FC Bayern?

 

[I Believe]

Of course sweeteners happen everywhere, eg VAT discounts, enterprise zones, tax windows etc...to incentivise employers to come here. We're just likely to be more reliant on these arrangements since we can't offer single market access. Kinda stands to reason.

Thank goodness for that, you had me worried there for a minute!

 

[fcbforever]

So they will be able to sell straight into the EU won't they, without using Britain as the middle man, did we take our cut..I forgot.. this is ludicrous? A significant number of the countries who did deals with the EU only did so because it gave them access to... Britain!



They won't need to, unless that is the rest of the EU fails to take up the volume of sales from the Chinese that would have sold into the British market, if the EU cannot make up the short fall then the Chinese will need a deal with us, but the door will be open, they won't have to bang it down!



Hah, Hah, selling our arse for deals, this is unbelievable, I thought you said you were a business journalist, how long have you been in the job?

What? No. Any examples?

And you really should understand why it would be desirable to use the UK as a bridgehead into the EU. They weren't using Britain as a middle man, that is an entirely different concept. Is Nissan taking the UK as a middle man? Hell no. Bridgehead doesn't mean trade via the UK but producing in Britain to export from there to the continent. This can be desirable for certain countries because the UK's main language is british or for a variety of other reasons. This is obviously and advantage GB will lose when it leaves the common market.

These are such fundamental things and I really don't think you are stupid, why do you come up with such nonsensical stuff. Do you really believe this shit? And if yes, then...why?

 

[fcbforever]

They can get tailored deals, don't have to satisfy the needs of 27 other economies... simples

PS Glad to see you're back, by the way does your fcb = FC Bayern?

For some countries maybe...but how is this good for the UK? "Tailored deals" is just a fancy word for "deals being more advantageous for them when compared to a comparable EU deal". Which obviously also means that it would be LESS advantageous for the UK.

The UK is in an extremely vulnerable and weak position, do you really think others won't wish to profit from that just because they are such nice people? I don't wanna shatter your world, but I mean....how can you believe that.

Let's say you are in desperate need of a car and go to a dealer. THat dealer is selling tons of cars to other people who are way bigger costumers than you are, just wanting one. Also, the dealer knows how desperate you are. Do you think he would offer you a better deal than he gives to that guy who's buying 10 cars per year for his company?

And yes, it's FC Bayern.

 

[I Believe]

no words

Precisely!

 

[I Believe]

Bridgehead doesn't mean trade via the UK but producing in Britain to export from there to the continent.

Thank you for explaining that, seems all that studying paid off for you. Nissan have secured a deal, read the other posts, they are expanding and upping their investment in Britain!

 

[I Believe]

Which obviously also means that it would be LESS advantageous for the UK.

Hah, Hah, you really are a pessimist aren't you, please keep your responses coming I'm having a brilliant time!

 

[Jippy]

These are such fundamental things and I really don't think you are stupid, why do you come up with such nonsensical stuff. Do you really believe this shit? And if yes, then...why?

I wish I had such an unshakeable faith in Brexit, let alone this dire, divided government's ability to deliver it.

 

[Jippy]

Thank you for explaining that, seems all that studying paid off for you. Nissan have secured a deal, read the other posts, they are expanding and upping their investment in Britain!

Hmm, no deal.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.in...gan-us-bank-moving-staff-eu-a7836366.html?amp

Uh oh, we're throwing away 14% of our GDP.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN1A40QS

 

[I Believe]

I wish I had such an unshakeable faith in Brexit

don't despair... be like me 'I Believe'!!

 

[C3Pique]

Precisely!

Not in a good way. You're deluded.

Thank you for explaining that, seems all that studying paid off for you. Nissan have secured a deal, read the other posts, they are expanding and upping their investment in Britain!

And how much of the 350m a week will be spent appeasing foreign firms to prevent them from deserting Britain?

 

[I Believe]

Not in a good way. You're deluded.

Oh, that's not nice... still it takes one to know one!

 

[I Believe]

And how much of the 350m a week will be spent appeasing foreign firms to prevent them from deserting Britain?

Don't know exactly, but at least we will see what we are getting, rather than just pouring it down the Brussels 'Gravy-train' track

 

[C3Pique]

Oh, that's not nice... still it takes one to know one!

that's the thing with delusion.. it seems everybody realises it but one.

 

[C3Pique]

Don't know exactly, but at least we will see what we are getting, rather than just pouring it down the Brussels 'Gravy-train' track

Aye, take back control: let's spend it bribing companies to stay doesn't quite have the same ring to it, does it?

 

[Jippy]

don't despair... be like me 'I Believe'!!

In May et al to deliver?

 

[fcbforever]

Hah, Hah, you really are a pessimist aren't you, please keep your responses coming I'm having a brilliant time!

It’s not pessimistic, is game theory. Every party will always try to get the most optimal result the other party allows him to have. Obviously, the extent you are able to influence that is by the amount of bargaining power you have. In our sense here, it’s economical strength and size of market that determined your bargaining power.

Trade negotiations aren’t happy sit-ins were everyone hops around joyfully trying to get the best result for everyone. Countries have agendas and push them. You want to be able to push back as much as possible.

Example: the UK is in dire need of trade deals. Let’s take the US, as it’s the most obvious because neither China nor India have any real benefits from entering trade negotiations with the UK (unless the UK really gives up a lot of stuff). Now, the US will try to push their chlorined chicken into the UK as that is what the food lobby demands. How do we know that? They tried it with the EU as well. They also wanted to keep out certain kinds of cheese from the US. The EU, having much more leverage as the UK would have on its own, got its cheese in and the chickens out. Of course we gave up some other stuff, hell, of course. The thing is that you have to imagine such negotiations as people playing poker. And all of Europe together just has more chips to play with than the UK and thus, is more likely to win more matches. It’s pretty likely the UK would have just given in in the case I mentioned here, or, if it didn’t, had to give up even more in some other matter. Maybe DNA modified crops or whatever.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Think of the exports.

@Paul the Wolf dissected the Brexit argument brilliantly on the last page. Been on a short holiday, so not been thinking about it, but reminded me how angry the whole thing makes me.

Thank you kind sir for the compliment.

In May et al to deliver?

They know she won't - and UKIP hope she doesn't because if she did then the consequences will bite them in the backside and Farage will be no more.

 

[Stanley Road]

Thank you kind sir for the compliment.



They know she won't - and UKIP hope she doesn't because if she did then the consequences will bite them in the backside and Farage will be no more.

Thought you were done here old man.

 

[devilish]

It’s not pessimistic, is game theory. Every party will always try to get the most optimal result the other party allows him to have. Obviously, the extent you are able to influence that is by the amount of bargaining power you have. In our sense here, it’s economical strength and size of market that determined your bargaining power.

Trade negotiations aren’t happy sit-ins were everyone hops around joyfully trying to get the best result for everyone. Countries have agendas and push them. You want to be able to push back as much as possible.

Example: the UK is in dire need of trade deals. Let’s take the US, as it’s the most obvious because neither China nor India have any real benefits from entering trade negotiations with the UK (unless the UK really gives up a lot of stuff). Now, the US will try to push their chlorined chicken into the UK as that is what the food lobby demands. How do we know that? They tried it with the EU as well. They also wanted to keep out certain kinds of cheese from the US. The EU, having much more leverage as the UK would have on its own, got its cheese in and the chickens out. Of course we gave up some other stuff, hell, of course. The thing is that you have to imagine such negotiations as people playing poker. And all of Europe together just has more chips to play with than the UK and thus, is more likely to win more matches. It’s pretty likely the UK would have just given in in the case I mentioned here, or, if it didn’t, had to give up even more in some other matter. Maybe DNA modified crops or whatever.

I've been trying to explain that to him for quite some time to no avail. Trade deals are done by technical people who are paid alot of money to fully exploit any weaknesses shown by their opponents to their advantage. Trump (From all people) won't just handle a great trade deal to the UK just because he likes teddy bear Farage.

A- He can't (congress has a big say on the matter)
B- He won't. America first and all that.

 

[devilish]

Do you really think we would have protested against our American Overlords decision anyway? I mean we marched into an illegal war on his say so... so whats a few tarrifs
Not sure if your from Barca but genuinely whats the feeling there about trade etc if they declare independence?

The UK acted as the US 'voice' in the EU, something it benefitted greatly from. Unfortunately Brexit meant that this leverage is now gone. Will the US still act kindly towards an ally it doesn't really need anymore? Well, the Kurds, the Southern Vietnamese and Saddam has quite an experience to share regarding that.

The EU remains the UK's best bet for a good trade deal. We can't really choose our neighbours and close proximity is still extremely important in various industries (Ex perishable goods).

 

[Wibble]

It still stuns me that we voted to leave and it stuns me even more that we are going to carry on despite it becoming obvious that we voted for a mirage. Now that the mirage has evaporated we are still running towards what is now obviously a sheer cliff. This is feckwittery on a scale that even the US voting in the Molester-in-Chief can't top.

 

[devilish]

It still stuns me that we voted to leave and it stuns me even more that we are going to carry on despite it becoming obvious that we voted for a mirage. Now that the mirage has evaporated we are still running towards what is now obviously a sheer cliff. This is feckwittery on a scale that even the US voting in the Molester-in-Chief can't top.

I am not surprised at all. Too many politicians has banked over Brexit. If Brexit end, then their career will go to the pits too.

Sure there's a big chance of Brexit ruining the country but that will take years. By that time people like Davis (68), Farage and Johnson (53), Hammond and May (61) will either be retired or close to retirement age. They won't be suffering the consequences of their actions that's for sure.

 

[I Believe]

Trade negotiations aren’t happy sit-ins were everyone hops around joyfully trying to get the best result for everyone

Really, and there's me thinking that's exactly what they are, perhaps not the 'happy' bit or the 'joyful' bit, but certainly attempting to get the best for those involved. Of course in bi-lateral agreements its much easier than where there are 28 parties on one side and only one party on the other. Size of market is an issue, of course it is, but trade deals come in all shapes and sizes and are rarely one dimensional.

The thing is that you have to imagine such negotiations as people playing poker

My word, you are full of surprises, I don't play poker much but I don't remember it requiring negotiations, 'bluffing' may be, keeping a straight face, making 'blind bets', may be, but can't say I remember negotiations being involved, but I will bow to your superior knowledge. Tell me who is the dealer in this trade negotiations/poker game scenario and are the odds stacked against, or for the house?

 

[I Believe]

Aye, take back control: let's spend it bribing companies to stay doesn't quite have the same ring to it, does it?

Yes, it means we own the 'gravy train', determine its pouring rate, who is sitting at the table and we can take it off the menu any time we like!