Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[JPRouve]

I think you'll find he's the emperor.

Seriously though, as soon as someone mentions Junker in this tone you may as well just ignore them as they quite obviously have absolutely no idea how the EU works.

I know but I really hope that they will listen at some point. It's for their own interest because they need to realize that Juncker would be a far better opponents than the real ones.

They need to ask themselves why would France, Germany, Italy, Spain and pretty much everyone else take that one sided deal? There is zero benefits from a collective stand point and there is zero benefits from an individual standpoint. So why?

 

[I Believe]

When the Uk is so much better off after they've left please come back and say I told you so.

Thanks for the invitation, will be sure to take you up on it!

 

[I Believe]

if you don't like it stop wasting everyone's time and just leave.

Oh if only our politicians had the 'b**s, its the 'drips' of left and right that have us in this mess now, pack up your bags David Davis and head on home, we can text Barnier all he needs to know ( imitating the last Labour message to the torie's) text reads " Monies gone and so have we"

 

[Full bodied red]

I am not a big fan of people are stupid sort of thing. However from my experience in politics im well aware of how easy ot is to demonise someone. Politicians love blaming others for their mistakes and an institution abroad is quite an easy target

Agree in part - too many politicos ( everywhere, not just the UK ) blame everything on someone else, never themselves or their party colleagues.

You've only got to listen to the Tories still going on about what they inherited from Brown and Darling after the 2008 Crash.

And agree with you 101% - the EU is a very easy target but, in my opinion, quite rightly so because, again in my opinion, has outgrown the purpose it was meant to serve, which was to permit Free Trade between its members. Not everyone wants to be part of a Project designed to produce a homogenous, centrally controlled Socialist Republic.

Thatcher, Major, Blair and Brown never asked for, so were implicitly never given a mandate to drag the UK deeper and deeper into the Project without offering the UK the chance to say YES or NO, and if BREXIT goes wrong it is those four who should be pilloried - not last year's spivs and chancers like Johnstone, Gove and the others.

Here, in 2005 the Government, to their credit, had a referendum to ratify the new EU Constitution. The result was a 55% vote to reject it, ( more than voted BREXIT ) with both the Extreme Right and Extreme Left, and lots of inbetweens, calling for a NO vote. In the end, the Government ignored the result ( they asked the citizens and residents their opinon but then ignored them ) and just pressed on with its support for the new Constitution and obviously didn't risk a referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon as the Irish did.

Read all about it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_European_Constitution_referendum,_2005

I have been anti-EU ( not pro-BREXIT, because as Tusk says, both sides will lose ) ever since. And is why I'll say again, the EU is now an even more deeply flawed but richer gravy train for too many European Politicians and their hangers-on because not enough of we ' little people ' were ever allowed to vote on whether what the EU has turned out to be is what we wanted it to be.

 

[Full bodied red]

I really wonder how people like @I Believe stil lcan think the EU will somehow falter in the last hour How massively must you overstate the role of GB in the world? How far detached do you have to be to just ignroe the facts that the EU is making up a massive amount of exports for the UK and a far, far far smaller amount of the EU's exports are going to GB? It's right there to see even for the dumbest of people to see who needs the other most.

They are in a massively advatageous position, they can, right now, just wait for the Tories to kill themselves and just shrug their shoulders if Britain shouldn't take the deal. Freedom of movement or nothing, simple.

For once I'll agree with you.

The UK should simply walk away - no budge from the EU's side, so no more nice guys, no more concessions, no transition period, no money beyond the agreed subs up to 2020 from the UK.

The EU's Member Governements might then start to ask the EU ' How the feck have Tusk, Barnier and the others got everyone to this lose-lose result ? '

 

[devilish]

Agree in part - too many politicos ( everywhere, not just the UK ) blame everything on someone else, never themselves or their party colleagues.

You've only got to listen to the Tories still going on about what they inherited from Brown and Darling after the 2008 Crash.

And agree with you 101% - the EU is a very easy target but, in my opinion, quite rightly so because, again in my opinion, has outgrown the purpose it was meant to serve, which was to permit Free Trade between its members. Not everyone wants to be part of a Project designed to produce a homogenous, centrally controlled Socialist Republic.

Thatcher, Major, Blair and Brown never asked for, so were implicitly never given a mandate to drag the UK deeper and deeper into the Project without offering the UK the chance to say YES or NO, and if BREXIT goes wrong it is those four who should be pilloried - not last year's spivs and chancers like Johnstone, Gove and the others.

Here, in 2005 the Government, to their credit, had a referendum to ratify the new EU Constitution. The result was a 55% vote to reject it, ( more than voted BREXIT ) with both the Extreme Right and Extreme Left, and lots of inbetweens, calling for a NO vote. In the end, the Government ignored the result ( they asked the citizens and residents their opinon but then ignored them ) and just pressed on with its support for the new Constitution and obviously didn't risk a referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon as the Irish did.

Read all about it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_European_Constitution_referendum,_2005

I have been anti-EU ( not pro-BREXIT, because as Tusk says, both sides will lose ) ever since. And is why I'll say again, the EU is now an even more deeply flawed but richer gravy train for too many European Politicians and their hangers-on because not enough of we ' little people ' were ever allowed to vote on whether what the EU has turned out to be is what we wanted it to be.

The EU has far less power then many think. However that's not something the UK government will ever admit. Its so easy to shift everything to the silent partner from failure to control immigration right for the most trivial of reasons.

Ultimately the reality is quite simple. The UK decided to leave the union despite the fact that the latter has been quite accommodating by giving it opt-outs and rebates. That's of course the UK choice which must be respected. There again once the line was crossed the Uk stopped being a member and it became a rival. It can't expect any favours let alone a cherry picking deal. Which of course is bad news for the UK as it really has very little to negotiate with.

 

[devilish]

For once I'll agree with you.

The UK should simply walk away - no budge from the EU's side, so no more nice guys, no more concessions, no transition period, no money beyond the agreed subs up to 2020 from the UK.

The EU's Member Governements might then start to ask the EU ' How the feck have Tusk, Barnier and the others got everyone to this lose-lose result ? '

Its the UK who bailed out Europe. No one kicked the UK out. So this lose-lose situation is all the UK doing.

Also its not very wise for global Britain to give the impression that it doesn't keep to its commitments especially since it will need the EU friendship to get a good deal at WTO level. If the UK's historical ally can drive a very hard bargain whenever it get pinched then imagine what an angry EU will do.

 

[Full bodied red]

Its the UK who left Europe. No one kicked the UK out.

Also its not very wise for global Britain to give the impression that it doesn't keep to its commitments especially since it will need the EU friendship to get a good deal at WTO level. If the UK's historical ally can drive a very hard bargain whenever it get pinched then imagine what an angry EU will do.

Never said they did.

And I don't really think the UK will need the EU's support for WTO membership.

Although I wouldn't put it past the EU to be sufficiently nasty and vindictive to do something like that....

 

[devilish]

Never said they did.

And I don't really think the UK will need the EU's support for WTO membership.

Although I wouldn't put it past the EU to be sufficiently nasty and vindictive to do something like that....

Well the WTO is a pack of wolves and you will need an unanimous vote to get good deal.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...e-argentina-spain-brexit-latest-a7468766.html

Its also fascinating how the UK would see anything done by the EU as vindictive especially when they constantly close an eye whenever the US does the very same thing

Also why should the EU act nice towards a fickle nation who doesn't pay the bills?

 

[Full bodied red]

Its the UK who bailed out Europe. No one kicked the UK out. So this lose-lose situation is all the UK doing.

Also its not very wise for global Britain to give the impression that it doesn't keep to its commitments especially since it will need the EU friendship to get a good deal at WTO level. If the UK's historical ally can drive a very hard bargain whenever it get pinched then imagine what an angry EU will do.

No....Not all the UK's doing.

If the EU want to avoid a lose - lose, it's in their hands, beacuse, as everyone more or less agrees, the UK doesn't have much to bargain with except it has the money that the EU apparently wants and needs more than anything else at this stage.

 

[The Outsider]

Perhaps Britain should go to the Commonwealth countries to get their appetite for an alternative WTO, to allow in new countries that may otherwise get blocked (like possibly Catalonia with Spain) or old countries pulling out of trading areas such as the EU or Nafta.

 

[Full bodied red]

Well the WTO is a pack of wolves and you will need an unanimous vote to get good deal.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...e-argentina-spain-brexit-latest-a7468766.html

Its also fascinating how the UK would see anything done by the EU as vindictive especially when they constantly close an eye whenever the US does the very same thing

Also why should the EU act nice towards a fickle nation who doesn't pay the bills?

Didn't say the UK would, I said that I would.

And like I said - agree to pay the bills contracted to and agreed to. It's difficult to actually pay a bill which has still not yet been presented and itemised although maybe you do that, personally, every time you go to a restaurant and agree to pay whatever the owner says you owe him without giving you an itemised bill.

 

[I Believe]

quite accommodating by giving it opt-outs and rebates.

The very fact Britain was given opt outs and rebates, proves that we were on the wrong bus and had been charged the wrong fare, not just once or twice but every time the CM/EEC/EU budgets were formed!

Unfortunately, someone (guess who) switched the name on the front of the bus whilst our politicians were busy falling over themselves to persuade the people of Britain that we could and we should remain on a bus that was not going to a destination that the British had asked to be taken let alone agreed to be taken and at the same time British politicians were also trying to tell the bus driver(s) where to go!

We have to get off this bus, its not going where 17.4m of us want and its costing us a fortune to be taken where we don't want to go! Our politicians have to stand up and be counted, there is a major political and economic debate to be had in Britain, but its not about Brexit, that ship has sailed!

 

[devilish]

No....Not all the UK's doing.

If the EU want to avoid a lose - lose, it's in their hands, beacuse, as everyone more or less agrees, the UK doesn't have much to bargain with except it has the money that the EU apparently wants and needs more than anything else at this stage.

Of course it is. The UK left Europe not Europe left the UK. We didn't vote for the UK to be kicked out of Europe, that's for sure.

Also the EU made it clear that the UK will only be expected the bills. Nothing more, nothing less. If the UK refuse to pay the bills it agreed upon in the first place than it cant really expect any favours whatsoever.

 

[devilish]

The very fact Britain was given opt outs and rebates, proves that we were on the wrong bus and had been charged the wrong fare, not just once or twice but every time the CM/EEC/EU budgets were formed!

Unfortunately, someone (guess who) switched the name on the front of the bus whilst our politicians were busy falling over themselves to persuade the people of Britain that we could and we should remain on a bus that was not going to a destination that the British had asked to be taken let alone agreed to be taken and at the same time British politicians were also trying to tell the bus driver(s) where to go!

We have to get off this bus, its not going where 17.4m of us want and its costing us a fortune to be taken where we don't want to go! Our politicians have to stand up and be counted, there is a major political and economic debate to be had in Britain, but its not about Brexit, that ship has sailed!

That's fair enough. There again it can't expect to cherry pick what it wants and what it doesn't want. I think that reality is slowly creeping in considering the way the UK is being treated not just by the EU but also by India and the US. Soon enough it will learn its place in the world and is far less prestigious than Brexiteers think

 

[Full bodied red]

Well the WTO is a pack of wolves and you will need an unanimous vote to get good deal.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...e-argentina-spain-brexit-latest-a7468766.html

Its also fascinating how the UK would see anything done by the EU as vindictive especially when they constantly close an eye whenever the US does the very same thing

Also why should the EU act nice towards a fickle nation who doesn't pay the bills?

I take the Independent as seriously as you would take the DailyHatemail and Express. It's even worse than the Guardian and Nick Clegg.

It should rename itself The Daily Remoaner.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I take the Independent as seriously as you would take the DailyHatemail and Express. It's even worse than the Guardian and Nick Clegg.

It should rename itself The Daily Remoaner.

How about Lesley Batchelor, director general of the IOE? Should she be taken seriously considering the entire article is based on her interview?

 

[The Outsider]

That's fair enough. There again it can't expect to cherry pick what it wants and what it doesn't want. I think that reality is slowly creeping in considering the way the UK is being treated not just by the EU but also by India and the US. Soon enough it will learn its place in the world and is far less prestigious than Brexiteers think

Brexiteers is a broad bunch not all at looking for a different kind of global control, a lot just want control of immigration and to get on the housing ladder or their kids do.

 

[devilish]

I take the Independent as seriously as you would take the DailyHatemail and Express. It's even worse than the Guardian and Nick Clegg.

It should rename itself The Daily Remoaner.

http://www.politico.eu/article/forg...ghest-battleground-is-the-wto-uk-theresa-may/

 

[devilish]

Brexiteers is a broad bunch not all at looking for a different king of global control, a lot just want control of immigration and to get on the housing ladder or their kids do.

I've been saying for quite some time that xenophobia played a big part of Brexit. Im glad someone agrees with it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

@ title change.

 

[The Outsider]

@ title change.

Yes I thought I was won the wrong thread for a mo.

 

[The Outsider]

I've been saying for quite some time that xenophobia played a big part of Brexit. Im glad someone agrees with it.

Not sure wanting control of immigration when we have a housing crisis that is increasing every year is xenophobia.

 

[fcbforever]

For once I'll agree with you.

The UK should simply walk away - no budge from the EU's side, so no more nice guys, no more concessions, no transition period, no money beyond the agreed subs up to 2020 from the UK.

The EU's Member Governements might then start to ask the EU ' How the feck have Tusk, Barnier and the others got everyone to this lose-lose result ? '

The thing here is...a lot of countries won't notice.
The EU can easily pay for it's project without any impact on the average citizen, most countries don't export enough to the UK for it to have any economic impact. Why would you think anyone in, for example, Finland or Estonia would give a flying feck? The UK though....different kind of animal. I mean, outright refusing to pay for anything after 2020 would also kill quite a lot of EU projects in GB, it would definetively experience the economic impact as, as I have just pointed out, the EU is just a far bigger tradepartner for the UK than vice versa and last but not least, slowly the people will realize that India or anyone else might not be as happy about having some sort of free trade agreement with them as they thought they would be.

So I wonder, who will blame whom here and who will question which politicians?

 

[fcbforever]

Not sure wanting control of immigration when we have a housing crisis that is increasing every year is xenophobia.

The housing crisis does have a lot more reasons than immigration though. As far as I understand it, GB has quite a lot of very stupid laws in regards where you are allowed to build and under which circumstances. Because you know, you have to wonder why this problem isn't as big almost anywhere else with simmilar immigration numbers....

 

[devilish]

Not sure wanting control of immigration when we have a housing crisis that is increasing every year is xenophobia.

The areas that most voted for Brexit are the same areas that are less effected by immigration.

 

[Full bodied red]

How about Lesley Batchelor, director general of the IOE? Should she be taken seriously considering the entire article is based on her interview?

You can if you want....Although she isn't exactly neutral....

 

[Full bodied red]

The thing here is...a lot of countries won't notice.
The EU can easily pay for it's project without any impact on the average citizen, most countries don't export enough to the UK for it to have any economic impact. Why would you think anyone in, for example, Finland or Estonia would give a flying feck? The UK though....different kind of animal. I mean, outright refusing to pay for anything after 2020 would also kill quite a lot of EU projects in GB, it would definetively experience the economic impact as, as I have just pointed out, the EU is just a far bigger tradepartner for the UK than vice versa and last but not least, slowly the people will realize that India or anyone else might not be as happy about having some sort of free trade agreement with them as they thought they would be.

So I wonder, who will blame whom here and who will question which politicians?

So why the insistence on money first, anything else after the cheque ?

 

[fcbforever]

So why the insistence on money first, anything else after the cheque ?

Because the UK has signed those agreements. Why would you give it up? Why should the EU just accept to pay for the pension of British EU employees for all of eternity?

Seriously, how would you think that's unreasonable? Like, you would have bought a car on a loan. And then suddenly you would take the car but wouldn't pay the loan anymore because "eh, the bank doesn't really NEED my money do they". No, you have agreed on it. It's a legal principle. Actually hinting the EU would be willing to talk about some of the payments is a HUGE concession.

 

[AshfordLad]

Not sure wanting control of immigration when we have a housing crisis that is increasing every year is xenophobia.

Biggest contributor in the housing crisis is not immigration though is it. Its the commoditisation of real estate.

 

[Damien]

@ title change.

I'm surprised @Silva hadn't changed it. He's losing his touch.

Edit: ffs I might be getting confused between him and Samid. Ugh.

 

[Silva]

I'm surprised @Silva hadn't changed it. He's losing his touch.

Edit: ffs I might be getting confused between him and Samid. Ugh.

I've opened the option a few times over the months, and almost edited it about it but all my ideas were really, really shit.

 

[Mozza]

Not sure wanting control of immigration when we have a housing crisis that is increasing every year is xenophobia.

It's not immigration that has caused the housing crisis

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Brexiteers is a broad bunch not all at looking for a different kind of global control, a lot just want control of immigration and to get on the housing ladder or their kids do.

The problem is the UK did have and have got control of immigration, unfortunately it had Theresa May as Home Secretary.

I would be interested to hear how leaving the EU will help people get on the housing ladder.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Hands up all those Brexiters who think the transitional deal the UK is looking for is for the benefit of the EU.

 

[Full bodied red]

Because the UK has signed those agreements. Why would you give it up? Why should the EU just accept to pay for the pension of British EU employees for all of eternity?

Seriously, how would you think that's unreasonable? Like, you would have bought a car on a loan. And then suddenly you would take the car but wouldn't pay the loan anymore because "eh, the bank doesn't really NEED my money do they". No, you have agreed on it. It's a legal principle. Actually hinting the EU would be willing to talk about some of the payments is a HUGE concession.

I spent almost 12 years working for DHL, also known as Deutsche Post to any non-Germans reading.

When I left, I paid them what I owed in expense advances, private expenses on the Amex Card, and ' holidays ' I'd taken in advance as I left half way through the year.

They paid me my salary up to the date of leaving and have paid me a nice pension the past couple of years.

What they didn't ask for, and up to now haven't asked for, is a contribution from me towards the other 250,000 pensions thay currently pay to German employees and will pay in the future.

Same as - when I left my last gold club to join another one, there was no demand to contribute to the old club's employees pensions for the next 30 years.

Seems the EU has a different philosophy about their own financial responsibilities than the rest of the world - but that's no surprise.

 

[fcbforever]

I spent almost 12 years working for DHL, also known as Deutsche Post to any non-Germans reading.

When I left, I paid them what I owed in expense advances, private expenses on the Amex Card, and ' holidays ' I'd taken in advance as I left half way through the year.

They paid me my salary up to the date of leaving and have paid me a nice pension the past couple of years.

What they didn't ask for, and up to now haven't asked for, is a contribution from me towards the other 250,000 pensions thay currently pay to German employees and will pay in the future.

Same as - when I left my last gold club to join another one, there was no demand to contribute to the old club's employees pensions for the next 30 years.

Seems the EU has a different philosophy about their own financial responsibilities than the rest of the world - but that's no surprise.

What an amazingly false equivalency. Or, well, it isn't that bad (but not good either) but you don't seem to understand it yourself. The bold part is irrelevant, but I will explain that later. Because in your equivalency, the UK is you. And the Amex Card, the holidays and everything else is pensions, projects and everything else the UK has agreed to. The UK agreed to contribute to pensions, as their membership also contributed quite a lot to said expenses with their MEP's etc. The UK agreed to pay for projects in advance, projects which are ongoing. They aren't being asked to pay for something that might come up in the future. They are asked to pay their bills, they ones which are existing right now, plain and simple. It's quite amazing how you are unwilling to see that. What you, in your equivalency, would want the UK to be doing is taking your company car with you as well and just laughing your ass off at any suggestion to pay off your Amex expenses.

Everyone on the EU agreed to pay into the Pension fund. You can't just leave and pretend the obligations you had up until the point you are leaving are null and void. That's how EVERYONE thinks about financial obligations, not just the EU. You know why DHL asked you to pay for future employees pensions? Because you already had. Well, indirectly anyway by working for the company and contributing to it's growth. There's functional differences between companies pension funds and state ones, which is a tad problematic in this equivalency. I'm actually rather shocked you are not aware of stuff like this.

I also doubt anyone outside Germany would know "Deutsche Post" as they are using DHL exclusively internationally...

 

[I Believe]

Soon enough it will learn its place in the world and is far less prestigious than Brexiteers think

I've got news for you, most brexiteers do know Britain's place in the world and its nothing to do with 'Prestigious thinking', that's what we fool foreigners with. Yes, we do 'pomp and circumstance' very well, but that's all it is now a legacy of the past, but one that still brings millions of people and billions of dollars/euros and pounds into Britain and this will continue.

Britain has always been a trading nation, maybe its the island mentality and at times admittedly we have been skating on the edges. Some of our most famous traders e.g. Francis Drake was also (and as far as the Spanish were concerned) a Privateer/Buccaneer, possible even a Pirate. Our history is littered with massive successes and quite a few spectacular failures. We have to now return to that indomitable spirit, of course we cannot send gun boats into foreign ports anymore, demanding trade, but we have innate capabilities that have been dormant for years and we need those to the fore now.

Its true, certainly in the short term, if the EU 'cuts up rough', that Brexit might turn out to be another glorious failure, but equally it could (even Mark Carney agreed, at last) turn into a massive success. If I was a youngster now with my life in front of me I would be full of excitement, at the opportunities Brexit will bring, I would, for example, be looking to master Mandarin Chinese, or Korean, or other Asian languages, seeking to find what I'm good at and make a start on a career, even if that means starting off flipping burgers at McDonalds (they are a global player are they not), look, listen and learn, much better rather than racking up debt at some third rate University taking 'mickey mouse' degrees, that wouldn't even get you through the door of Disney World!

We need the freedom of being outside the monolithic EU, the EU has done nothing for young people under 25, just look at the levels of unemployment in many southern countries in particular, we should and will chase the pound/dollar/euro (even)! At home build more houses, as Theresa has said, that people can afford, sort out profligate employers, sort out the carpet-baggers, get the infrastructure development moving up a gear, improve on what we've got, design and build new what we haven't. Invest heavily in people (not the mickey mouse stuff) good quality training for where there are shortages, especially if all the EU citizens who are doing such jobs, as we are regularly told, will head for the hills. Abroad, we need to seek out those who want to trade, make sure we can satisfy their needs, if we can't, then don't waste their time or ours, pretending that we can. Get our best and brightest sales people 'front and centre', invest in their skills and attributes, give them better rewards than just shifting money around (although we will still do that as well)

Of course Jeremy is promising a lot of this as well, but he sees the 'dead-hand' of the state, spending money, but not earning it, although we hear from some on these posts that he won't make the mistakes of his Socialist forefathers in the kind of nationalisation he brings in...no doubt he will want to make his own! But I don't really want to knock Jeremy, he believes in his rubbish and he is up front about that, the fact he is an Arsenal supporter tells you everything you need to know!

The point is fundamentally brexiteers believe Britain is capable, yes, maybe we won't sit at the top table anymore, but then we won't have to send our young men and women to die in wars someone else got us into because we are a 'prestigious country', we won't have to pay large sums to keep others going, whose economies are almost basket-cases now but they won't do anything about it, because we will help, because we are not now a 'prestigious country'.

The sooner we are out the better.

 

[fcbforever]

I've got news for you, most brexiteers do know Britain's place in the world and its nothing to do with 'Prestigious thinking', that's what we fool foreigners with. Yes, we do 'pomp and circumstance' very well, but that's all it is now a legacy of the past, but one that still brings millions of people and billions of dollars/euros and pounds into Britain and this will continue.

Britain has always been a trading nation, maybe its the island mentality and at times admittedly we have been skating on the edges. Some of our most famous traders e.g. Francis Drake was also (and as far as the Spanish were concerned) a Privateer/Buccaneer, possible even a Pirate. Our history is littered with massive successes and quite a few spectacular failures. We have to now return to that indomitable spirit, of course we cannot send gun boats into foreign ports anymore, demanding trade, but we have innate capabilities that have been dormant for years and we need those to the fore now.

Its true, certainly in the short term, if the EU 'cuts up rough', that Brexit might turn out to be another glorious failure, but equally it could (even Mark Carney agreed, at last) turn into a massive success. If I was a youngster now with my life in front of me I would be full of excitement, at the opportunities Brexit will bring, I would, for example, be looking to master Mandarin Chinese, or Korean, or other Asian languages, seeking to find what I'm good at and make a start on a career, even if that means starting off flipping burgers at McDonalds (they are a global player are they not), look, listen and learn, much better rather than racking up debt at some third rate University taking 'mickey mouse' degrees, that wouldn't even get you through the door of Disney World!

We need the freedom of being outside the monolithic EU, the EU has done nothing for young people under 25, just look at the levels of unemployment in many southern countries in particular, we should and will chase the pound/dollar/euro (even)! At home build more houses, as Theresa has said, that people can afford, sort out profligate employers, sort out the carpet-baggers, get the infrastructure development moving up a gear, improve on what we've got, design and build new what we haven't. Invest heavily in people (not the mickey mouse stuff) good quality training for where there are shortages, especially if all the EU citizens who are doing such jobs, as we are regularly told, will head for the hills. Abroad, we need to seek out those who want to trade, make sure we can satisfy their needs, if we can't, then don't waste their time or ours, pretending that we can. Get our best and brightest sales people 'front and centre', invest in their skills and attributes, give them better rewards than just shifting money around (although we will still do that as well)

Of course Jeremy is promising a lot of this as well, but he sees the 'dead-hand' of the state, spending money, but not earning it, although we hear from some on these posts that he won't make the mistakes of his Socialist forefathers in the kind of nationalisation he brings in...no doubt he will want to make his own! But I don't really want to knock Jeremy, he believes in his rubbish and he is up front about that, the fact he is an Arsenal supporter tells you everything you need to know!

The point is fundamentally brexiteers believe Britain is capable, yes, maybe we won't sit at the top table anymore, but then we won't have to send our young men and women to die in wars someone else got us into because we are a 'prestigious country', we won't have to pay large sums to keep others going, whose economies are almost basket-cases now but they won't do anything about it, because we will help, because we are not now a 'prestigious country'.

The sooner we are out the better.

Yeah, my gouvernment possibly taking the opportunity from me to study, live and work everywhere in Europe would leave me briming with excitement. Man, your age really shows...

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I've got news for you, most brexiteers do know Britain's place in the world and its nothing to do with 'Prestigious thinking', that's what we fool foreigners with. Yes, we do 'pomp and circumstance' very well, but that's all it is now a legacy of the past, but one that still brings millions of people and billions of dollars/euros and pounds into Britain and this will continue.

Britain has always been a trading nation, maybe its the island mentality and at times admittedly we have been skating on the edges. Some of our most famous traders e.g. Francis Drake was also (and as far as the Spanish were concerned) a Privateer/Buccaneer, possible even a Pirate. Our history is littered with massive successes and quite a few spectacular failures. We have to now return to that indomitable spirit, of course we cannot send gun boats into foreign ports anymore, demanding trade, but we have innate capabilities that have been dormant for years and we need those to the fore now.

Its true, certainly in the short term, if the EU 'cuts up rough', that Brexit might turn out to be another glorious failure, but equally it could (even Mark Carney agreed, at last) turn into a massive success. If I was a youngster now with my life in front of me I would be full of excitement, at the opportunities Brexit will bring, I would, for example, be looking to master Mandarin Chinese, or Korean, or other Asian languages, seeking to find what I'm good at and make a start on a career, even if that means starting off flipping burgers at McDonalds (they are a global player are they not), look, listen and learn, much better rather than racking up debt at some third rate University taking 'mickey mouse' degrees, that wouldn't even get you through the door of Disney World!

We need the freedom of being outside the monolithic EU, the EU has done nothing for young people under 25, just look at the levels of unemployment in many southern countries in particular, we should and will chase the pound/dollar/euro (even)! At home build more houses, as Theresa has said, that people can afford, sort out profligate employers, sort out the carpet-baggers, get the infrastructure development moving up a gear, improve on what we've got, design and build new what we haven't. Invest heavily in people (not the mickey mouse stuff) good quality training for where there are shortages, especially if all the EU citizens who are doing such jobs, as we are regularly told, will head for the hills. Abroad, we need to seek out those who want to trade, make sure we can satisfy their needs, if we can't, then don't waste their time or ours, pretending that we can. Get our best and brightest sales people 'front and centre', invest in their skills and attributes, give them better rewards than just shifting money around (although we will still do that as well)

Of course Jeremy is promising a lot of this as well, but he sees the 'dead-hand' of the state, spending money, but not earning it, although we hear from some on these posts that he won't make the mistakes of his Socialist forefathers in the kind of nationalisation he brings in...no doubt he will want to make his own! But I don't really want to knock Jeremy, he believes in his rubbish and he is up front about that, the fact he is an Arsenal supporter tells you everything you need to know!

The point is fundamentally brexiteers believe Britain is capable, yes, maybe we won't sit at the top table anymore, but then we won't have to send our young men and women to die in wars someone else got us into because we are a 'prestigious country', we won't have to pay large sums to keep others going, whose economies are almost basket-cases now but they won't do anything about it, because we will help, because we are not now a 'prestigious country'.

The sooner we are out the better.

So what is stopping you doing any of this now, makes no sense - all you're doing is depriving British people of having a choice - well done