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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

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The biggest lie of all the Brexit lies that have been told, was that Leavers want Remainers to "make a success of Brexit".

Leavers don't give a feck about making "a success of Brexit".
 
rcoobc said:
The biggest lie of all the Brexit lies that have been told, was that Leavers want Remainers to "make a success of Brexit".

Leavers don't give a feck about making "a success of Brexit".
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No, they were being exactly and completely honest there. They want remainers to make a success out of Brexit, because they themselves have absolutely no fecking idea how to do it. This way, when it all goes to shit they can just blame everyone else.
 
Kentonio said:
No, they were being exactly and completely honest there. They want remainers to make a success out of Brexit, because they themselves have absolutely no fecking idea how to do it. This way, when it all goes to shit they can just blame everyone else.
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Indeed, but I really don't think they care.

The most common thing I've found with leavers is that, a) their reasons for voting leave are actually quite understandable (worrying about housing pressures, urban sprawl, jobs and wages), and b) leavers tend to express their opinions very poorly.

I had one leaver tell me straight to my face that there were "too many Indian doctors in this country". I was rather shocked and a bit pissed by that statement so started really digging into why he was saying it... and what he really meant was "we don't train enough British Doctors". Now if he'd said "we don't train enough British Doctors" I doubt many would disagree, but because he'd said "there are too many Indian doctors", myself and everyone else around was pretty pissed off at him.

Of course I might just be trying to justify his right-wing nationalist views.

But yeah, try talking to a Leaver about how we are going to make a success of Brexit. They don't care (or at least, that's what I've found).
 
Paul the Wolf said:
As the years go by and no-one wants to emigrate to a xenophobic and racist country you'll see adverts from the UK begging workers to come, the advert saying, "we don't want you here, but we need you here"
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"Come pick our Cherries for minimum wage"

"You can't stay afterwards"
 
rcoobc said:
Indeed, but I really don't think they care.

The most common thing I've found with leavers is that, a) their reasons for voting leave are actually quite understandable (worrying about housing pressures, urban sprawl, jobs and wages), and b) leavers tend to express their opinions very poorly.

I had one leaver tell me straight to my face that there were "too many Indian doctors in this country". I was rather shocked and a bit pissed by that statement so started really digging into why he was saying it... and what he really meant was "we don't train enough British Doctors". Now if he'd said "we don't train enough British Doctors" I doubt many would disagree, but because he'd said "there are too many Indian doctors", myself and everyone else around was pretty pissed off at him.

Of course I might just be trying to justify his right-wing nationalist views.

But yeah, try talking to a Leaver about how we are going to make a success of Brexit. They don't care (or at least, that's what I've found).
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The question is ,as a leaver, did he realise that Indian doctors do not come from the EU, probably not. I think you are being too generous in your assessment.
 
rcoobc said:
Indeed, but I really don't think they care.

The most common thing I've found with leavers is that, a) their reasons for voting leave are actually quite understandable (worrying about housing pressures, urban sprawl, jobs and wages), and b) leavers tend to express their opinions very poorly.

I had one leaver tell me straight to my face that there were "too many Indian doctors in this country". I was rather shocked and a bit pissed by that statement so started really digging into why he was saying it... and what he really meant was "we don't train enough British Doctors". Now if he'd said "we don't train enough British Doctors" I doubt many would disagree, but because he'd said "there are too many Indian doctors", myself and everyone else around was pretty pissed off at him.

Of course I might just be trying to justify his right-wing nationalist views.

But yeah, try talking to a Leaver about how we are going to make a success of Brexit. They don't care (or at least, that's what I've found).
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In other words, they are, understandably in many cases, unhappy about many aspects of modern life in the UK but for some reason (30 years of press propoganda?) have decided the EU is all to blame rather than successive governments at Westminster. I just worry how they will react when they realise they have voted to make themselves poorer and, if the UK does strike trade deals with the likes of the US and China, most likely even more at the mercy of unconstrained market forces. Nobody likes to admit they were a dupe so I fear they would be looking for scapegoats.
 
Feels wrong to be on the same side as Osbourne but i enjoy his attack articles against May. Most telling was him revealing the tory cabinet under Cameron had all voted to unilaterally guarantee EU citizens rights to stay..everyone that is except May.

She is a genuine psychopath i dont think she cares about anything but her defined goal, not electability or human compassion.
 
Smores said:
Feels wrong to be on the same side as Osbourne but i enjoy his attack articles against May. Most telling was him revealing the tory cabinet under Cameron had all voted to unilaterally guarantee EU citizens rights to stay..everyone that is except May.

She is a genuine psychopath i dont think she cares about anything but her defined goal, not electability or human compassion.
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Those of us who've had to deal with her home office when trying to get a visa for a non eu partner have warned people of this. She has no heart
 
Smores said:
Feels wrong to be on the same side as Osbourne but i enjoy his attack articles against May. Most telling was him revealing the tory cabinet under Cameron had all voted to unilaterally guarantee EU citizens rights to stay..everyone that is except May.

She is a genuine psychopath i dont think she cares about anything but her defined goal, not electability or human compassion.
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This comes as no surprise. Having suffered her 'rules', I felt prosecuted and interrogated rather going through a normal process.
 
rcoobc said:
Indeed, but I really don't think they care.

The most common thing I've found with leavers is that, a) their reasons for voting leave are actually quite understandable (worrying about housing pressures, urban sprawl, jobs and wages), and b) leavers tend to express their opinions very poorly.

I had one leaver tell me straight to my face that there were "too many Indian doctors in this country". I was rather shocked and a bit pissed by that statement so started really digging into why he was saying it... and what he really meant was "we don't train enough British Doctors". Now if he'd said "we don't train enough British Doctors" I doubt many would disagree, but because he'd said "there are too many Indian doctors", myself and everyone else around was pretty pissed off at him.

Of course I might just be trying to justify his right-wing nationalist views.

But yeah, try talking to a Leaver about how we are going to make a success of Brexit. They don't care (or at least, that's what I've found).
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Its within the UK domain to increase training posts for doctors. Its also within the British doctors interest that, if they are paid badly or they cant get into senior roles, they move elsewhere so that they can get the experience they need. That's what doctors in many countries do.
 
devilish said:
Its within the UK domain to increase training posts for doctors. Its also within the British doctors interest that, if they are paid badly or they cant get into senior roles, they move elsewhere so that they can get the experience they need. That's what doctors in many countries do.
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The latter part is ironically something the EU provides. It's common for German doctors to move abroad after university for a few years for example
 
Ive changed my mind, the biggest lie of brexit is Global Britain.

Unless we can remove this tory government, we will be the most inward looking Britain imaginable
 
One year of waiting for a convincing, tangible reason why we are better off out.

One year of dawning realisation that there really is no plan beyond bluster and BS.
 
MoskvaRed said:
One year of waiting for a convincing, tangible reason why we are better off out.

One year of dawning realisation that there really is no plan beyond bluster and BS.
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It's an absolute joke.

I genuinely think I've come up with a better Brexit plan than the government has on multiple occasions.
 
rcoobc said:
It's an absolute joke.

I genuinely think I've come up with a better Brexit plan than the government has on multiple occasions.
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Probably a better one even after several pints and scribbled on the back of a beer mat. In fact, I think that's how our delightful "Brexiteers" came up with theirs.
 
Rams said:
Maybe I've missed something... but how have you suffered her rules?
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I'm an EU citizen and have dealt with the HO on more than one occasion during the last few years.
 
MoskvaRed said:
Probably a better one even after several pints and scribbled on the back of a beer mat. In fact, I think that's how our delightful "Brexiteers" came up with theirs.
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Still a better Brexit plan than the Tories
 
Rightnr said:
Lol, top comment on the Daily Mail's EU citizens article:

'We don't want them here, immigration is the reason we voted out!!!!'

with 2.3k likes and 1.3 dislikes. And then people say EU citizens sometimes (and more and more often nowadays) feel unwelcome in this country...
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Would hope the world doesn't judge us on people who read and comment on the daily mail! We arn't all like that!
 
I live in a area that was dependant on immigrant fruit pickers. Thing is they got paid less than minimum wage. Normally about 50% less.
 
Nytram Shakes said:
Would hope the world doesn't judge us on people who read and comment on the daily mail! We arn't all like that!
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Certainly I have been in this country to know this is not as common as that might suggest but it also points to a huge portion who hide (or not) their distaste for foreigners. I am happy to hold my own but at some point you just think - is it worth having to go against the current and prove I deserve or have earned my place here time and again?

Gambit said:
I live in a area that was dependant on immigrant fruit pickers. Thing is they got paid less than minimum wage. Normally about 50% less.
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Yeah, that's illegal. I just wonder how in these cases how come you know but the authorities and the government are not acting on it? And can those picking businesses (were their workers British and they got at least the minimum wage) survive with increased costs or would they just go out of business with cheap imports.

These questions are not easy to answer and will be even more difficult with labour automation and incoming cull of driving jobs.
 
Rightnr said:
And then people say EU citizens sometimes (and more and more often nowadays) feel unwelcome in this country...
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They probably feel as welcome as anyone who dared to vote the leave the EU and who has since been condemned indiscriminately as a racist, uneducated simpleton.
 
You can be educated and intelligent yet utterly idiotic on one or more subjects. The few of my friends who voted to leave aren't racists in the sense of planting burning crosses on lawns or even disliking people of colour etc. It is often far more subtle and they may not even be aware of their bias. It often is expressed in the land of hope and glory mindset that thinks a monarchy is a good idea and even something to be proud of, that we are still a world power and being part of the EU somehow devalues our victory in WW2 and a general mistrust of foreigners having any role connected to the UK. Basically a very Daily Mail mindset.

Despite our politicians proving time and time again they can be incredibly incompetent, corrupt and downright immoral.
 
Wibble said:
You can be educated and intelligent yet utterly idiotic on one or more subjects. The few of my friends who voted to leave aren't racists in the sense of planting burning crosses on lawns or even disliking people of colour etc. It is often far more subtle and they may not even be aware of their bias. It often is expressed in the land of hope and glory mindset that thinks a monarchy is a good idea and even something to be proud of, that we are still a world power and being part of the EU somehow devalues our victory in WW2 and a general mistrust of foreigners having any role connected to the UK. Basically a very Daily Mail mindset.

Despite our politicians proving time and time again they can be incredibly incompetent, corrupt and downright immoral.
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It's interesting how acutely sensitive to their bias you are. I agree about our politicians, they generally are incompetent and immoral, I guess that's why so many would prefer to be governed by their EU counterparts (those elected or not) as they have proven how decent, honest and altruistic they are. And if that ever changed we could always vote them..erm :nervous:
 
I'm sensitive to all biases.

And the whole "ruled by unelected Europeans" is simply a straw man argument. We have civil servants in the UK as well.
 
The bottom line is we need EU migrants, latest figures show the post Brexit 100k target is half what we need and the cost is negligible in the scheme of things. So what is left is zenophobia, mild or otherwise as you have to be seriously deluded if you think Brexit could be an economic plus.

fat-cut.jpg
 
Wibble said:
I'm sensitive to all biases.

And the whole "ruled by unelected Europeans" is simply a straw man argument. We have civil servants in the UK as well.
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We do indeed, although I would suggest there's a difference between the two groups.

Regardless, my intent was never to continue the debate on the value of membership to the EU or the debate surrounding the EU itself and how it functions.
I was compelled to post to address the treatment handed out to "leavers" since the vote.

For months a significant percent of those who are pro EU have been happy to arrogantly dehumanize the many millions who voted to leave by making blanket assumptions of them all and by treating them and their opinions and both their right and ability to form them with no respect or empathy.

I must admit I rather latched onto your comment to vent this point, for which I appologize.

Wibble said:
The bottom line is we need EU migrants, latest figures show the post Brexit 100k target is half what we need and the cost is negligible in the scheme of things. So what is left is zenophobia, mild or otherwise as you have to be seriously deluded if you think Brexit could be an economic plus.

fat-cut.jpg
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Could it be that for some Brexit wasn't entirely about money?
 
parkthebuslads said:
We do indeed, although I would suggest there's a difference between the two groups.

Regardless, my intent was never to continue the debate on the value of membership to the EU or the debate surrounding the EU itself and how it functions.
I was compelled to post to address the treatment handed out to "leavers" since the vote.

For months a significant percent of those who are pro EU have been happy to arrogantly dehumanize the many millions who voted to leave by making blanket assumptions of them all and by treating them and their opinions and both their right and ability to form them with no respect or empathy.

I must admit I rather latched onto your comment to vent this point, for which I appologize.

Could it be that for some Brexit wasn't entirely about money?
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No need to apologise.

Money was a major argument. EU migration that it turns out is both profitable and needed was another. Being ruled by faceless EU bureaucrats was another that is a total straw man. There isn't much left after that.

The leave faction did take advantage of the less educated and lower socioeconomic groups by appealing to their quite justified dissatisfaction with how they are treated by politicians of all sides. Although like Trump and the Tories getting in it is part of the greatest con job ever pulled - getting the people with the most to lose t vote against their own interests.

Add on the Daily Mail demographic and there is a great deal of the 52%.

And as I said you don't need to be an uneducated idiot bigot to make wrong choices.
 
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