I can only speak for France and the answer is no, there isn't a closer relationship.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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I can only speak for France and the answer is no, there isn't a closer relationship.
Your other bollocks I'll reply to later....
What you're describing is exactly what the UK, and other late entrants, signed up to join in 1972.
If it was still like that, we wouldn't be having this discussion. But somehow that utopia got hijacked....
But I'll throw this out to you while I go for dinner - do any of the other counties in the world which have Free Trade Agreements with the EU have to sign up to (1) Pay the EU an annual membership fee and (2) Accept unlimited immigration of EU citizens into their country and (3) accept the ECJ as the highest court of jurisdiction of its citzens ?
Think carefully before you answer and you might then understand the mood in the UK outside of this forum....
@fcbforever
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/489894/tsgb-2015.pdf
I don't have any specific data for car parts, but I would guess you are entirely wrong about this.
That wasn't the point of what you were saying or of what I replied to here. This was specifically about free trade, not the EU. I also love you for still saying "in the U.K." when you are not even living there iirc
Using broad data to extrapolate specific data is a terrible idea. Trains only make sense if you ship large numbers. Which you do in this case. Hella, for example, sure as hell exports by train as well. They are basically doing the lighting for every single car built in the U.K. Some of it also arrives by ship from China.
What do you mean by this?
Over the years I've probably dealt with every shipping line, every courrier company, loads of transport companies and loads of airlines.
My vote as the most bloody difficult is Maersk and the worst location Maersk UK.
Playing them all off against each other, companies asking me to use them every day. Get the most competitive prices to be competitive for your customer, just the freight costs can break a deal.
We regularly had shipments by sea and air, products sourced from all over Europe including the UK to customers in Africa which we grouped together in Germany or Belgium or Holland or France whichever was most economically convenient. They were quickly delivered to the grouping point because of free movement. Now if the UK is out of free movement - UK products will not go and will be sourced elsewhere. And many companies do this.
Maybe but you said they arrive in the UK by a wide margin. If that was true there would have to be a 20 fold change compared to the average.
It just seems very strange
You realise I was talking about car supply chains, how little those those make up of overall import and that this likely isn't true for every single car part imported into the U.K.?
Don't understand the obssesion with empty trucks, I'm sure that happens internally as well, it's still the cheapest way of doing business otherwise they wouldn't do it
How about we all stop talking about fecking trucks 
Aahh....Maersk ! Idiots. Nasty idiots as well, back in the day, when I used to fly for them out of Birmingham.
Made a lot of us redundant with 24 hours notice so that they could offload the company to their sycophantic UK managers in a management buyout in 2003.....Which then went down the tubes in less than a year. Schadenfreude.....
What you describe is correct, of course....All our aircraft leave with consols, every flight - we couldn't live without it - that's how this industry survives.
But am I not correct ( probably not ) that anything going from, say, UK to Angola as part of a consolidation can stay airside in Brussels or Leipzig before transferring to the flight down to Lagos, where for a few hundred dollars, in cash of course, it can stay airside until we collect it and hand it over to Customs in Luanda where it gets cleared with everything else ?
Yeah...I know I'm using specifics, but don't the same principles apply to any destination ex-UK which doesn't have an FTA with the EU ?
Consolidated cargo can do that but as the average clearance time is 2 weeks and import tariffs are horrendous in Angola, not a place I would have want to do business with. Did a lot of business with Nigeria.
But if the UK is out of the zone, consolidating cargo from the UK in mainland Europe becomes much more costly and complicated no matter the destination.
But if the UK is out of the zone, consolidating cargo from the UK in mainland Europe becomes much more costly and complicated no matter the destination.
You are comparing apples with oranges, a typical Brexiteer folly. The UK has a FTA that covers services atm, not just goods and sets the rules as well as having access to markets across Europe where the scale of its companies and its power to set those very same rules give it a competitive advantage. I mean how is this so difficult?
Your point about EU citizens coming into this country - are they some sort of fecking degenerates? What is wrong with people like you who make it out as if Europeans are not the closest culturally to the UK and probably integrate best as well as allow the native population to learn a bit about their closest trading partners and business markets?
Btw, the UK decided to open its borders to the new joiners and that's why you saw that mass immigration wave of these commonly despised Polish people who came here to work. Other countries opted not to do this. It was the UK government's fault and mismanagement that causes all these issues and this is also the case for benefit fraud and letting people overstay without a job.
I am sick to death of this Daily Mail 'reasoning' but I'm sure I will hear more about 'mood' soon enough. It's the Westminster government that people should rise against, not the EU...
I'm going to have to be careful here - I already got a yellow card for replying to some of your bollocks months ago.
Still got a UK passport; own property in the UK; son and daughter living / working in the UK; pay most of my taxes in the UK; and might have to go back to the UK if BREXIT goes tits up.
Satisfied ? So what's your connection with the BREXIT thread and your overwhelming need to contribute to it ?
And the answer to my question to you about other countries with an FTA without all the obligations to the EU is......?
Yeah sure....Thousands of people in Dover are having a simultaneous collective illusion of all those hundreds of empty Spanish lorries which pass through Dover and Folkstone every day on their way back to Europe. And all those very specially designed, equipped Dutch lorries which return empty after dropping off flowers in the UK and can't actually load anything for a return journey because of their design.
You Germans are presumably Masters of Exporting to be able to fill all the trucks that leave Germany after dropping off their imports. Well....In fact you are, aren't you...So much so, that you are completely ignoring the EU's own rules for Balance of Trade surpluses, but nobody seems to give a feck about that in Brussels....
Humm....Nothing quite so unlikeable as arrogant Germans....Particularly when they've no idea what they're talking about.
So....
I was actually involved in reviewing the Transportation of inbound components into Oxford seven or eight years years ago with a former colleague who was hopeful of winning the contract. Why do you think I chose it as an example ? You know more about it than me ?
( German owned ) DHL were eventually chosen as the Lead Logisitics Supplier, surprise, surprise, and the inbound Logistics to Oxford were managed from what DHL called the Control Tower in Munich - not even in the UK. To the best of my knowledge, not much has changed since.
http://www.dpdhl.com/en/media_relations/press_releases/2005/bmw_relies_on_dhl_network.html
'Let's just accept that it is true (which it isn't) that those 170 lorries leave GB empty ' No they don't leave the UK empty - they're carrying empty gitterboxes. Sometimes a full load, sometimes just one or two.
How exactly does BMW profit from that compared to a system where that isn't the case? They'd rather pay the trucking companies to return the empties than to pay their suppliers for new ones for each delivery. If they weren't returning the empty ones, they could then, as you say, try to find loads for returning to their point of origin or some other location.
Because it wouldn't. The consumer paying extra for supply chains like that, ultimately, either makes their cars less competetive (e.g. more expensive) or reduces their margin. Which no sane company will ever accept if there's a better solution. Seriously, please explain for me how BMW would profit there above it's costumers. BMW ( and Audi and Mecedes ) customers pay top price for their vehicles. They're status symbols. D'you know how often the Daily Hatemail in the UK loves to refer to the fact that some miscreant in the UK has an Audi or BMW ? BMW feed this image of status symbol - their prices are deliberately higher than, say Ford or Vauxhall, to maintain this supposed feeling of superiority of BMW and Audi owners. It's not just in Germany that ' You are what you drive ' So there's plenty of head room in the selling price for any 'more-than-necessary' costs, whether marketing, sponsorships or even expensive supply chains.
But this isn't true anyway. First of all, a wide margin of parts for thoe cars doesn't arrive by lorry in GB, but by Train (and sometimes even by plane) The contract specified that any parts delivered into the UK by train, had to be collected and shipped to a subsidiary holding depot ( also operated by DHL ) a couple of miles from the Cowley plant from where seperate shuttles delivered to the main plant along with other components which were delivered by truck into the UK and were not needed immediately in the plant. This still exists, but is no longer operated by DHL but yet another, different German Logistics company. How much arrive by train, I've no idea - but the number of 'shuttle ' vehicles at this subsidiary depot was about 7 vehicles. As these carried both components delivered by rail and by truck, then compared to 170 truck arrivals per day, it's fairly safe to assume that the percentage arriving by train was / is not very much.
Talking of rail transport, I'll go off on a bit of a tangent here as well. Those in the UK are probably aware of the fiasco which is the electrification of the GWR railway from London to South Wales. Planned and authorised in 2010, it was supposed to cost about £900 million. Latest estimates show that it will likely cost more than £ 3.5 billion, is about three years late, and only about 85% of the planned electrified mileage will be completed as a cost reducing measure. Network Rail, the culprits, have stated that one of the main reasons for the cost incresae is that their original plan was for electrification to traditional UK standards for rail electrification, but had to be redesigned in line with the EU's Rail Interoperability Programme, which was introduced to permit easier non-stop frieght and passenger rail traffic across mainland European borders. NR also state that there is unlikely to be any increase in direct rail traffic between the UK and Mainland Europe because of the limited availablity of capacity through the Channel Tunnel. Irrespective, the UK apparently had to comply with this directive, which has cost about £1.3 billion ( NR's estimate ) for, essentially, nothing, and, ironically, will prevent any large increase of components shipped to BMW Oxford as the electrification of the line from Didcot to the UK's main Freight Terminal in Daventry ( where these components are delivered to ) will not now be electrified.
Neither of those parts of the supply chain are owned by BMW, but by other companies. None of these companies will just accept empty shipping. You're right for once - they're paid for the round trip, even if they're only carrying a couple of empty gitterboxes on the return jorney.
As for the lorries inside GB, these are owned by forwarding agents not only being used by BMW; but by multiple companies. You can be 100% sure they, for their own good, will have other costumers and contracts which mean they use ther lorries as effective as possible Not just inside the UK. Almost all the 170 trucks each day were / are sub-contracted to DHL from a whole host of small transport companies all round Europe - for the round trip. Even today, DHL operates very few point-to-point trucks of their own - they own or are responsible for operating 000s of trucks for their depot based logistics companies, but not for point-to-point deliveries, which are nearly all sub-contracted in.
Those gitterboxes you talked about are not only standartized for BMW; but for literally everything. We used them in the medium sized builders merchant I worked at as a student, my father has got them at his cement plants, my father in law at his import-export business with China. The notion they are just going empty back to Europe on lorries is stupid. Yeah....Sure....
Also, empty truck returning to spain...lul. Have you really ever worked in logistics? This is not how this works
Like I said - 30+ years, including some involvment with the Mini Plant in Oxford. Yourself ?
That wasn't the point of what you were saying or of what I replied to here. This was specifically about free trade, not the EU. I also love you for still saying "in the U.K." when you are not even living there iirc
Still got a UK passport; own property in the UK; son and daughter living / working in the UK; pay most of my taxes in the UK; and might have to go back to the UK if BREXIT goes tits up.
Satisfied ? So what's your connection with the BREXIT thread and your overwhelming need to contribute to it ?
And the answer to my question to you about other countries with an FTA without all the obligations to the EU is......?
Yeah sure....Thousands of people in Dover are having a simultaneous collective illusion of all those hundreds of empty Spanish lorries which pass through Dover and Folkstone every day on their way back to Europe. And all those very specially designed, equipped Dutch lorries which return empty after dropping off flowers in the UK and can't actually load anything for a return journey because of their design.
You Germans are presumably Masters of Exporting to be able to fill all the trucks that leave Germany after dropping off their imports. Well....In fact you are, aren't you...So much so, that you are completely ignoring the EU's own rules for Balance of Trade surpluses, but nobody seems to give a feck about that in Brussels....
Humm....Nothing quite so unlikeable as arrogant Germans....Particularly when they've no idea what they're talking about.
So....
I was actually involved in reviewing the Transportation of inbound components into Oxford seven or eight years years ago with a former colleague who was hopeful of winning the contract. Why do you think I chose it as an example ? You know more about it than me ?
( German owned ) DHL were eventually chosen as the Lead Logisitics Supplier, surprise, surprise, and the inbound Logistics to Oxford were managed from what DHL called the Control Tower in Munich - not even in the UK. To the best of my knowledge, not much has changed since.
http://www.dpdhl.com/en/media_relations/press_releases/2005/bmw_relies_on_dhl_network.html
'Let's just accept that it is true (which it isn't) that those 170 lorries leave GB empty ' No they don't leave the UK empty - they're carrying empty gitterboxes. Sometimes a full load, sometimes just one or two.
How exactly does BMW profit from that compared to a system where that isn't the case? They'd rather pay the trucking companies to return the empties than to pay their suppliers for new ones for each delivery. If they weren't returning the empty ones, they could then, as you say, try to find loads for returning to their point of origin or some other location.
Because it wouldn't. The consumer paying extra for supply chains like that, ultimately, either makes their cars less competetive (e.g. more expensive) or reduces their margin. Which no sane company will ever accept if there's a better solution. Seriously, please explain for me how BMW would profit there above it's costumers. BMW ( and Audi and Mecedes ) customers pay top price for their vehicles. They're status symbols. D'you know how often the Daily Hatemail in the UK loves to refer to the fact that some miscreant in the UK has an Audi or BMW ? BMW feed this image of status symbol - their prices are deliberately higher than, say Ford or Vauxhall, to maintain this supposed feeling of superiority of BMW and Audi owners. It's not just in Germany that ' You are what you drive ' So there's plenty of head room in the selling price for any 'more-than-necessary' costs, whether marketing, sponsorships or even expensive supply chains.
But this isn't true anyway. First of all, a wide margin of parts for thoe cars doesn't arrive by lorry in GB, but by Train (and sometimes even by plane) The contract specified that any parts delivered into the UK by train, had to be collected and shipped to a subsidiary holding depot ( also operated by DHL ) a couple of miles from the Cowley plant from where seperate shuttles delivered to the main plant along with other components which were delivered by truck into the UK and were not needed immediately in the plant. This still exists, but is no longer operated by DHL but yet another, different German Logistics company. How much arrive by train, I've no idea - but the number of 'shuttle ' vehicles at this subsidiary depot was about 7 vehicles. As these carried both components delivered by rail and by truck, then compared to 170 truck arrivals per day, it's fairly safe to assume that the percentage arriving by train was / is not very much.
Talking of rail transport, I'll go off on a bit of a tangent here as well. Those in the UK are probably aware of the fiasco which is the electrification of the GWR railway from London to South Wales. Planned and authorised in 2010, it was supposed to cost about £900 million. Latest estimates show that it will likely cost more than £ 3.5 billion, is about three years late, and only about 85% of the planned electrified mileage will be completed as a cost reducing measure. Network Rail, the culprits, have stated that one of the main reasons for the cost incresae is that their original plan was for electrification to traditional UK standards for rail electrification, but had to be redesigned in line with the EU's Rail Interoperability Programme, which was introduced to permit easier non-stop frieght and passenger rail traffic across mainland European borders. NR also state that there is unlikely to be any increase in direct rail traffic between the UK and Mainland Europe because of the limited availablity of capacity through the Channel Tunnel. Irrespective, the UK apparently had to comply with this directive, which has cost about £1.3 billion ( NR's estimate ) for, essentially, nothing, and, ironically, will prevent any large increase of components shipped to BMW Oxford as the electrification of the line from Didcot to the UK's main Freight Terminal in Daventry ( where these components are delivered to ) will not now be electrified.
Neither of those parts of the supply chain are owned by BMW, but by other companies. None of these companies will just accept empty shipping. You're right for once - they're paid for the round trip, even if they're only carrying a couple of empty gitterboxes on the return jorney.
As for the lorries inside GB, these are owned by forwarding agents not only being used by BMW; but by multiple companies. You can be 100% sure they, for their own good, will have other costumers and contracts which mean they use ther lorries as effective as possible Not just inside the UK. Almost all the 170 trucks each day were / are sub-contracted to DHL from a whole host of small transport companies all round Europe - for the round trip. Even today, DHL operates very few point-to-point trucks of their own - they own or are responsible for operating 000s of trucks for their depot based logistics companies, but not for point-to-point deliveries, which are nearly all sub-contracted in.
Those gitterboxes you talked about are not only standartized for BMW; but for literally everything. We used them in the medium sized builders merchant I worked at as a student, my father has got them at his cement plants, my father in law at his import-export business with China. The notion they are just going empty back to Europe on lorries is stupid. Yeah....Sure....
Also, empty truck returning to spain...lul. Have you really ever worked in logistics? This is not how this works
Like I said - 30+ years, including some involvment with the Mini Plant in Oxford. Yourself ?
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Not surprising when you look at the polling behind it all.
The very elderly and uneducated working class voters are taking a nationistic swing. My view is that it's in part due to the way that the media covers immigration and the EU, and the political cowardice of those in charge, and part because of austerity and poor economic outcomes outside of London.
Some really interesting reads, thank you for those.
Whoever was responsible for paying the round trip for a one way destination ought to have been sacked on the spot. It doesn't work like this unless you have a really inefficient logistics department.
What is going on in this fecking thread
Have I got this right, the government will publish a plan of action this Monday, 26 June? I thought I've heard it being mentioned on the radio but can't find more info on it.
4 pages of arguing about lorries
That's why it's called moving day, Philip.
May arrives in Brussels for talks today. What's going to happen ?
She's going to feck everything up by the sounds of the most recent breaking news.
PM Theresa May has told EU leaders any EU citizen living in UK for five years will be given "settled EU status".
The new immigration status would grant them rights to stay in the UK and get health, education and other benefits after Brexit.
Tell me I'm reading this wrong. What the feck?
The new immigration status would grant them rights to stay in the UK and get health, education and other benefits after Brexit.
Tell me I'm reading this wrong. What the feck?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...r-partnership-bbc-radio-4-today-a7802381.html
We're going to see more and more of this I reckon. People realising what they've actually voted for.
We're going to see more and more of this I reckon. People realising what they've actually voted for.
Sticking point could be that the ECJ does not act as guarantor of those rights.
Seems like the BBCs stub article I've quoted here is wrong. What they're agreeing to is to allow EU citizens to stay and claim the permanent residence status after 5 years. I.e. what already happens. Not what the BBC implied which is those here for less than 5 years will be booted out.
"no, not the immigrants I like, the other ones"
May unveils offer on EU citizens
EU citizens who have lived in the UK for five years could get equal rights to UK nationals for good, under proposals unveiled by PM Theresa May.
A new "settled EU" immigration status would grant them rights to stay in the UK and access health, education and other benefits after Brexit.
But Theresa May said proposals would be adopted only if the same rights were granted to UK citizens in EU states.
The plans were put forward at a European Council summit in Brussels.
Those arriving after the cut-off date but before the date of Brexit in March 2019 would have a "grace period" - expected to be two years - to regularise their immigration status, with a view to later seeking settled status.
BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg said Theresa May had told EU leaders that the UK did not want any current resident to have to leave, nor to split families up.
She said the deal would provide certainty to three million people who have "built families, lives and careers and contributed so much to our society".
She says that their rights will upheld by our highly respected courts. Weren't they the enemies of the people ?
"As businessmen, we need clarity about our future direction."
Yes, let's have some clarity a year after the vote. This makes sense.
I was in despair listening to this idiot today on the radio. You would have thought somebody with half a brain would have known the sovereignty issue was a load of nonsense...
How dare people call Brexiters stupid, they're just a bit slow on the uptake
Took a quick look at the DM to see their take on it and saw Ladies Day at Ascot. Hyphenated hockey sticks, what's become of the world ?
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Lol, top comment on the Daily Mail's EU citizens article:
'We don't want them here, immigration is the reason we voted out!!!!'
with 2.3k likes and 1.3 dislikes. And then people say EU citizens sometimes (and more and more often nowadays) feel unwelcome in this country...
'We don't want them here, immigration is the reason we voted out!!!!'
with 2.3k likes and 1.3 dislikes. And then people say EU citizens sometimes (and more and more often nowadays) feel unwelcome in this country...
Fecking dishonest joke of a woman, the EU offer has already been made and is far more generous than the conditional bollocks she's offering.
PROJECT FEAR!