Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Bizarre comment, comes across as racist. She doesn't have a UK passport, there is absolutely no reason why it's going to be made even more 'Shutter' as you say. She is my wife not my 'misses' you fecking prick.

Eh?

Missus is wife right? Otherwise my Manc upbringing taught me very wrong.

No idea why you got so angry with that poster for a valid question.

 

[Full bodied red]

Thought we were putting this thread on ice until something happens ?

So sorry JP, didn't see the additional posts till just now and so haven't bothered putting together the reply I mentioned.

So to be going on with - how Juncker was 'elected', from the usually fanatically pro-EU Guardian, the REMAINERS bible.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/01/cameron-juncker-politicise-european-commission-eu

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/27/eu-democratic-bandwagon-juncker-president-wanted


All this to placate the racist Mail readers.

Seems the old age, racist. HateMail readers deserted UKIP by the thousands of thousands and returned to their Labour roots on Thursday....You're welcome to them.

 

[Mozza]

All this to placate the racist Mail readers.

Seems the old age, racist. HateMail readers deserted UKIP by the thousands of thousands and returned to their Labour roots on Thursday....You're welcome to them.

The UKIP vote split 50:50, Corbyn got new people to vote, I theorise not just the young but people who stayed home last time.

 

[Full bodied red]

This bit should be on the other thread....

Corbyn got students to vote with an impossible-to-fund promise to cancel tuition fees....I bet you, personally, would even vote UKIP if they promised to pay off your mortgage for you....

He was actually quite good during the pre-election, much better than May and Farron, and his vote winner was to promise a lot of things which would 'give' money to lots of different people, including the HateMail readers who May said she would take money off from pensions, winter fuel allowance, Care fees, etc....

In retrospect, Corbyn was like someone stood there with an open cookie jar, inviting people to ' come and help yourself - someone else will pay for them '

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Thought we were putting this thread on ice until something happens ?

Other than triggering A50, what happened on Thursday is the most significant thing to have happened since the referendum.

 

[2ndTouch]

Corbyn got students to vote with an impossible-to-fund promise to cancel tuition fees....I bet you, personally, would even vote UKIP if they promised to pay off your mortgage for you....

We don't have tuition fees in Germany. Affordable education for all parts of the society is not as impossible as you might think as long as there is a political will for for it...

 

[Nytram Shakes]

This bit should be on the other thread....

Corbyn got students to vote with an impossible-to-fund promise to cancel tuition fees....I bet you, personally, would even vote UKIP if they promised to pay off your mortgage for you....

He was actually quite good during the pre-election, much better than May and Farron, and his vote winner was to promise a lot of things which would 'give' money to lots of different people, including the HateMail readers who May said she would take money off from pensions, winter fuel allowance, Care fees, etc....

In retrospect, Corbyn was like someone stood there with an open cookie jar, inviting people to ' come and help yourself - someone else will pay for them '

i personally think the amount of things Corbyn promised actually hurt his campaign, i honestly think if he had promised a little less and kept his positive message he would have been seen as more legitimate and get more votes and this is coming from a corbyn voter!

 

[JPRouve]

Thought we were putting this thread on ice until something happens ?

So sorry JP, didn't see the additional posts till just now and so haven't bothered putting together the reply I mentioned.

So to be going on with - how Juncker was 'elected', from the usually fanatically pro-EU Guardian, the REMAINERS bible.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/01/cameron-juncker-politicise-european-commission-eu

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/27/eu-democratic-bandwagon-juncker-president-wanted


All this to placate the racist Mail readers.

Seems the old age, racist. HateMail readers deserted UKIP by the thousands of thousands and returned to their Labour roots on Thursday....You're welcome to them.

You see those two articles are why I have repeated numerous time that if people aren't happy they should complain about their national leaders both articles tell you that they are a bunch of eejits who conveniently blame the EU for their own ineptitude. Unfortunately we the people are even more stupid than our leaders.

The EU doesn't have a problem of Democracy, it has a problem of selfishness and idiocy. We are both in a position to know about that since we know exactly the last two leaders who represented France at Brussel, two absolute weapons.

 

[Full bodied red]

We don't have tuition fees in Germany. Affordable education for all parts of the society is not as impossible as you might think as long as there is a political will for for it...

I think there is a popular will for it in the UK as well. But it's difficult to see how the country can now afford to return to free university education.

We have to blame Blair for laying the seeds of tuition fees when he allowed Polytechnics to call themselves 'Universities' in return for cutting the money Central Government provided to these Polytechnics....He also encouraged as many young people as possible to go to University and as many older unemployed people as possible to go to University to retrain - partially as a way to exclude them from unemployment statistics - but as thousands and thousands of younger and older people took up his advice, but who would not have been sufficiently well qualified to have got a place at a 'traditional' university as opposed to the 'new' universities, the cost just spiralled out of control, and tuition fees had to be introduced.

And then, of course, the Conservatives for increasing the tuition fees to what they now are....

And then the LibDems who in their 2010 manifesto promised ' No Tuition Fees' but were bought off by Cameron in exchange for a referendum on introducing Proprtional Representation in the UK.

So now, the UK has the USA model for education, and UK universities are straightforward commercial busineses who have become totally reliant on the number of students ( and their tuition fees, of course ) which they can attract and which explains why you see ads around the side of the pitch during matches for UK universities mixed in with the adds for Heineken and Mastercard.

There are no tuition fees in Scotland, and I believe it's free in Scotland for other EU citizens but not to English, N Irish and Welsh residents, which is another bone of contention, of course, and it's always amazed me why nobody has challeneged this in the UK courts as discriminatory ( the old word for racist ) against the rest of the UK outside of Scotland. But as I said, I believe this is the case so stand to be corrected on that.

 

[711]

i personally think the amount of things Corbyn promised actually hurt his campaign, i honestly think if he had promised a little less and kept his positive message he would have been seen as more legitimate and get more votes and this is coming from a corbyn voter!

I think you're right.

 

[Wibble]

When we vote we give our MP the power to vote on our behalf in Parliament. The PM votes on our behalf in Europe. Their is no democratic deficit

I CAN"T HEAR YOU. LAND OF HOPE AND GLORY LA LA LA LA

 

[Wibble]

Unlike you I have confidence in the UK regardless of whether we are in the EU or not, the EU didm't make Britain Great.

Don't you remember the last time we went alone? That worked out so well.

Great wasn't really the best descriptor.

 

[devilish]

We don't have tuition fees in Germany. Affordable education for all parts of the society is not as impossible as you might think as long as there is a political will for for it...

Same in sweden and in malta.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

We don't have tuition fees in Germany. Affordable education for all parts of the society is not as impossible as you might think as long as there is a political will for for it...

And as long as you have a 16 billion euros a month in trade surplus to pay for it. Twice the agreed EU acceptable trade surplus and as long as you do nothing to address it.

 

[devilish]

And as long as you have a 16 billion euros a month in trade surplus to pay for it. Twice the agreed EU acceptable trade surplus and as long as you do nothing to address it.

350m a week can take u a long way or was that for the nhs?

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

350m a week can take u a long way or was that for the nhs?

As usual, I don't understand you because you don't make much sense and you don't address any point you don't don't like.

 

[devilish]

As usual, I don't understand you because you don't make much sense and you don't address any point you don't don't like.

You keep believing the lies of this elitist pro rich party who dubbed you (and many others) that the uk cant afford free tertiary education. Many countries offer it, including malta and sweden. I think you can add italy to the list

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

You keep believing the lies of this elitist party who dubbed you (and many others) that the uk cant afford free tertiary education. Many countries offer it, including malta and sweden

Is that why voted labour Devilish because I believe the elitists?

Or is the point I make that the EU has a 3% trade surplus target within the EU which is being broken by Germany and no one says anything about it valid.

 

[devilish]

Is that why voted labour Devilish because I believe the elitists?

Or is the point I make that the EU has a 3% trade surplus target within the EU which is being broken by Germany and no one says anything about it valid.

The eu has nothing to do with the uk providing free tertiary education if they wanted

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Dunno if this has been posted before? Excellent opinion police on how the Tories have fecked over Britain with their equal parts selfish and stupid "strategy" behind Brexit.

 

[JPRouve]

Dunno if this has been posted before? Excellent opinion police on how the Tories have fecked over Britain with their equal parts selfish and stupid "strategy" behind Brexit.

I'm a bit lost when it comes to UK politics but this sentence seems true from the outside.

This is a party that has plunged its country into an existential crisis because it was too weak to stand up to a minority of nationalist zealots and tabloid press barons.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Dunno if this has been posted before? Excellent opinion police on how the Tories have fecked over Britain with their equal parts selfish and stupid "strategy" behind Brexit.

That just about sums it up.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Dunno if this has been posted before? Excellent opinion police on how the Tories have fecked over Britain with their equal parts selfish and stupid "strategy" behind Brexit.

Great article, hope the likes of @Chorley1974 get the chance to read it.

 

[Adisa]

Dunno if this has been posted before? Excellent opinion police on how the Tories have fecked over Britain with their equal parts selfish and stupid "strategy" behind Brexit.

Great article. The magic trick was how these guys were able to convince working class people that, they were taking back control. One would be impressed if it wasn't so painful.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Great article. The magic trick was how these guys were able to convince working class people that, they were taking back control. One would be impressed if it wasn't so painful.

The exact same trick Trump played on the working class in America.

 

[jackofalltrades]

How many MPs are or were against Brexit, around 480 ? Has such an important piece of legislation ever gone through with so little parliamentary support ?

 

[Silva]

How many MPs are or were against Brexit, around 480 ? Has such an important piece of legislation ever gone through with so little parliamentary support ?

Overwhelming majority, that was one of the reasons May called an election when the polls said she's get a landslide, so she could get it through. Hence why everyone said a hard Brexit is dead the second the exit poll came out.

 

[finneh]

The eu has nothing to do with the uk providing free tertiary education if they wanted

I never understand people with progressive views on taxation or society in general being pro free University education.

Not only is it one of the most progressive loans in the sense that the fee's are only paid back once a certain income threshold is reached and not only does the data show that the education received on average earns the person far more than the associated costs; it's detrimental to the poor who tend to go to University at a much lower rate than the upper and middle classes.

It's literally a tax on the poor to pay for the middle and upper classes to earn even more. I can't think of a more right wing tax bung than free University education.

 

[Mozza]

I never understand people with progressive views on taxation or society in general being pro free University education.

Not only is it one of the most progressive loans in the sense that the fee's are only paid back once a certain income threshold is reached and not only does the data show that the education received on average earns the person far more than the associated costs; it's detrimental to the poor who tend to go to University at a much lower rate than the upper and middle classes.

It's literally a tax on the poor to pay for the middle and upper classes to earn even more. I can't think of a more right wing tax bung than free University education.

Why should free education cut off at 18?

 

[Kentonio]

I never understand people with progressive views on taxation or society in general being pro free University education.

Not only is it one of the most progressive loans in the sense that the fee's are only paid back once a certain income threshold is reached and not only does the data show that the education received on average earns the person far more than the associated costs; it's detrimental to the poor who tend to go to University at a much lower rate than the upper and middle classes.

It's literally a tax on the poor to pay for the middle and upper classes to earn even more. I can't think of a more right wing tax bung than free University education.

The poor go at a much lower rate than the rich because their standard of education and economic opportunity is lower. For someone who has grown up in a poor family, the idea of taking on 30-40k of debt is absolutely fecking terrifying. All it means is the rich don't care because their parents help them through uni anyway, and the poor get saddled with a lifetime of debt that sets them even further behind once they start earning. The Great British way: get every cnut into debt they'll never get out of, and expect them to be grateful for it.

 

[711]

The poor go at a much lower rate than the rich because their standard of education and economic opportunity is lower. For someone who has grown up in a poor family, the idea of taking on 30-40k of debt is absolutely fecking terrifying. All it means is the rich don't care because their parents help them through uni anyway, and the poor get saddled with a lifetime of debt that sets them even further behind once they start earning. The Great British way: get every cnut into debt they'll never get out of, and expect them to be grateful for it.

The you personally should take care to point out to such teenagers that they will not have to pay back a penny until they have some means to do so. If you don't then you personally are putting them off their ambitions, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[Kentonio]

The you personally should take care to point out to such teenagers that they will not have to pay back a penny until they have some means to do so. If you don't then you personally are putting them off their ambitions, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

I'm not giving anyone advice, people make their own decisions. I'm sick of hearing though how lucky the little scamps should feel to have the golden opportunity to take on 40k of debt instead of being burdened with a nasty free education. After all, maybe a few rich kids might get it free too, and we can't have a system that doesn't divide us now, can we.

 

[711]

I'm not giving anyone advice, people make their own decisions. I'm sick of hearing though how lucky the little scamps should feel to have the golden opportunity to take on 40k of debt instead of being burdened with a nasty free education. After all, maybe a few rich kids might get it free too, and we can't have a system that doesn't divide us now, can we.

You're doing your very best to put them off though, and that's shameful.

 

[Full bodied red]

Now if everyone actually repaid the loans which were provided to them by the UK government....

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2013/may/12/eu-graduate-unpaid-fees-50m

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...-abroad-getting-away-not-paying-their-student

Then the currently stupidly high fees might actually reduce.

 

[711]

There are many things wrong with student loans, such as the fact that interest rates are above inflation, which is dishonest in my opinion. I would be happy to see them subsidised, or at least no more than inflation.

 

[Kentonio]

You're doing your very best to put them off though, and that's shameful.

Shameful? Get to feck. I come from a very poor working class area, and I'm fecking tired of people talking up debt as if it's some great thing that the poor should be grateful for. When I went to uni the first time not only was it free but we got grants as well, so I'm fecked if I'm going to support handing today's kids a much shitter deal and lying about how we're doing them a favour.

 

[Wibble]

The you personally should take care to point out to such teenagers that they will not have to pay back a penny until they have some means to do so. If you don't then you personally are putting them off their ambitions, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

He isn't putting people off but governent policy is.

The history or repayments worldwide is that it creeps to the point that it cripples the young/poor. Here in Australia they have just changed (or are changing) the repayment threshhold, that has already been subject to constant creep due to never keeping up with inflation/cost of living, so that fees go up by an average of 7% at the same time that repayment % go up and thresholds go down well below average wages. In effect a huge proportion of ex-students just getting going with a career have been slugged with a 2.5% income tax rise. An utter disgrace.

I'm not poor (or anywhere near wealthy) and I grew up in a lower middle class family. The missus is from a working class family who did well for themselves until the troubles fecked things up. So we are more comfortable with taking on and paying off education debt that many and even we are not keen for our son to go to Uni at the moment. On the one hand it may make people only go when they really know what they want to do (many will be wrong anyway) but on the other we are dumbing down the workforce because any degree is a huge societal good even if you don't directly work in the area of your degree.

Neither the missus nor I work in what our undergrad degrees are in but the skills we gained have been a huge lifelong benefit to us and to society as we have paid large (to me) amounts of tax for 30 years or so with more to come. I doubt either of us would have paid anywhere near as much tax if we hadn't gone to Uni. The irony is that what both of us do wasn't even a thing when we went to Uni so we couldn't have taken a degree in it. And this is going to be more common as change keeps accelerating. For the benefit of society we should be encouraging more general degrees especially those with an emphasis on problem solving, critical thinking and innovation.

 

[devilish]

I never understand people with progressive views on taxation or society in general being pro free University education.

Not only is it one of the most progressive loans in the sense that the fee's are only paid back once a certain income threshold is reached and not only does the data show that the education received on average earns the person far more than the associated costs; it's detrimental to the poor who tend to go to University at a much lower rate than the upper and middle classes.

It's literally a tax on the poor to pay for the middle and upper classes to earn even more. I can't think of a more right wing tax bung than free University education.

I think its fundamentally wrong that a country with a good economy to saddle a young adult with debt over his studies especially when it closes an eye or two to rich businesses paying taxes etc. The guy could live on benefits but instead had chosen to build a life and work hard to become a taxpayer. Why force him to go into debt for it?

Also once a person is a young adult he's responsible for himself. He shouldn't and can't be expected to rely on daddy and mummy to provide him with the £££ to aid him for the future. I know of rich parents who had refused to pay for their son's bills because he went to University instead of opting for their family business. If the government didn't paid for his education then he would have never received tertiary education.

 

[711]

He isn't putting people off but governent policy is.

The history or repayments worldwide is that it creeps to the point that it cripples the young/poor. Here in Australia they have just changed (or are changing) the repayment threshhold, that has already been subject to constant creep due to never keeping up with inflation/cost of living, so that fees go up by an average of 7% at the same time that repayment % go up and thresholds go down well below average wages. In effect a huge proportion of ex-students just getting going with a career have been slugged with a 2.5% income tax rise. An utter disgrace.

I'm not poor (or anywhere near wealthy) and I grew up in a lower middle class family. The missus is from a working class family who did well for themselves until the troubles fecked things up. So we are more comfortable with taking on and paying off education debt that many and even we are not keen for our son to go to Uni at the moment. On the one hand it may make people only go when they really know what they want to do (many will be wrong anyway) but on the other we are dumbing down the workforce because any degree is a huge societal good even if you don't directly work in the area of your degree.

Neither the missus nor I work in what our undergrad degrees are in but the skills we gained have been a huge lifelong benefit to us and to society as we have paid large (to me) amounts of tax for 30 years or so with more to come. I doubt either of us would have paid anywhere near as much tax if we hadn't gone to Uni. The irony is that what both of us do wasn't even a thing when we went to Uni so we couldn't have taken a degree in it. And this is going to be more common as change keeps accelerating. For the benefit of society we should be encouraging more general degrees especially those with an emphasis on problem solving, critical thinking and innovation.

You've repeated the point I made earlier, that the main problem is the government charging too much interest on loans, where I think the fair rate should be the lowest possible rate the government itself pays for borrowing, maybe even less with subsidy.

As for the bolded, this would make sense if fewer people were going to university, but the truth is the opposite, in the UK we are now at 50%.

What I take issue with is people who are telling others they shouldn't go to university because they are poor, which is just plain wrong.

 

[Kentonio]

I think its fundamentally wrong that a country with a good economy to saddle a young adult with debt over his studies especially when it closes an eye or two to rich businesses paying taxes etc. The guy could live on benefits but instead had chosen to build a life and work hard to become a taxpayer. Why force him to go into debt for it?

Also once a person is a young adult he's responsible for himself. He shouldn't and can't be expected to rely on daddy and mummy to provide him with the £££ to aid him for the future. I know of rich parents who had refused to pay for their son's bills because he went to University instead of opting for their family business. If the government didn't paid for his education then he would have never received tertiary education.

Good post.