Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Ultimate Grib]

Insults, insults....Always the bloody same with EU apologists....


So here you go for headlines

I believe in democracy – the EU is undemocratic.
I believe in Free Trade – the EU is protectionist
I believe in transparency and accountability – the EU isn’t
I believe countries should govern themselves for the benefit of their own citizens – the EU doesn’t
I believe in Lean Government – the EU is a bureaucratic nightmare
I don’t like subsidising losers – the EU loves it
I object to paying tax to rescue basket case banks and economies – the EU loves spending my tax rescuing basket case banks and economies
I believe it’s stupid to push Putin too far – the EU already has
I don’t think you can treat 28 different countries, economies and cultures as one homogenous nation – the EU thinks it can and insists that it will
I like to deal directly with my elected politicians when I have a problem with what they’re doing – the EU couldn’t give a shit about individuals’ problems
I believe unemployment is a crime – the EU encourages unemployment
I don’t like open borders – the EU insists on open borders within mainland Europe.
I like clubs that set then respect their own rules – the EU only does this when its suits them.
I don’t like vindictive ex-lover bunny boilers – the EU is proving it is a bunny boiler par excellence
I believe in helping the 3rd World economies – the EU only does it when it’s to the EU’s own benefit

Who let you out of the woodwork? #alternativefacts

 

[PedroMendez]

I dunno about group think. I know a lot of financial journos, having been in the game for over 16 years, and most are left. I'm actually historically right (no love for the current Tory party), but we're all pro-EU, barring one guy I know. Maybe it is group think, but we're all from different socio-economic, racial, religious backgrounds etc...

The assessment about group think in social science is not really in question. In social science there is a very fine line between confirming your own preconceptions by looking at the data and actually forming a view based on data. It is very difficult to work with very noisy data. There are good reasons to be pro-eu, but not all of these reasons are economical. The cultural idea of forming a post-nationalistic society, that is able to overcome the petty feuds of the past is commonly shared between people who are often part of an intellectual environment with cosmopolitan/international outlook. Thats great and I am all for that, but many people bring these values back in their field and just look for further confirmation of these ideas.

 

[711]

The assessment about group think in social science is not really in question. In social science there is a very fine line between confirming your own preconceptions by looking at the data and actually forming a view based on data. It is very difficult to work with very noisy data. There are good reasons to be pro-eu, but not all of these reasons are economical. The cultural idea of forming a post-nationalistic society, that is able to overcome the petty feuds of the past is commonly shared between people who are often part of an intellectual environment with cosmopolitan/international outlook. Thats great and I am all for that, but many people bring these values back in their field and just look for further confirmation of these ideas.

Petty feuds? WW1, WW2, and the rest, were a bit more than that.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Insults, insults....Always the bloody same with EU apologists....

I like to deal directly with my elected politicians when I have a problem with what they’re doing – the EU couldn’t give a shit about individuals’ problems

Spoken like someone who's had no interaction with their MP by the sounds of it.

 

[Damien]

Nick Clegg asking people in Wales why they voted Brexit: http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/people-welsh-valleys-town-reveal-12813508

 

[Jippy]

Sorry but

Yep, my missus as a national of a former colonial country loved that one.

I don't see how continuing to pay for agreed projects until they end is an exit fee either. I suppose it's the running theme of Brexit, everyone wants answers to everything now, right away, whereas in reality we'll only learn little by little, and slowly. Still that gives lots of room for confident predictions and boasting bets about the future, so it seems to be keeping everyone happy, along with the insults of course.

I'm dreading two more years of conjecture and bullshit.

 

[Chorley1974]

Fake news, etc, blah blah blah

It's clear from this thread that nobody has a fecking clue as to what the EU means and represents. A few highlights...

If you are remain you are a racist. Yet the EU doesn't have uncontrolled immigration with non EU countries for example in Africa...??? Work that out. Only racist to restrict immigration of europeans?

People won't work in other countries in the EU if you're from the UK, and vice versa. Sorry to break it to you this was happening a long time before the formation of the EU.

Access to the single market means no trade between UK/EU......really ffs.

Lower cost labour is only available from the EU.

loads more lol, scaremongering cnuts...

 

[Jippy]

The assessment about group think in social science is not really in question. In social science there is a very fine line between confirming your own preconceptions by looking at the data and actually forming a view based on data. It is very difficult to work with very noisy data. There are good reasons to be pro-eu, but not all of these reasons are economical. The cultural idea of forming a post-nationalistic society, that is able to overcome the petty feuds of the past is commonly shared between people who are often part of an intellectual environment with cosmopolitan/international outlook. Thats great and I am all for that, but many people bring these values back in their field and just look for further confirmation of these ideas.

The flipside is I receive diametrically opposed info every day. Some economic consultancies, like Capital Economics or Albert Edwards at SocGen are perma-bears, while Gavekal etc always find reason to be bullish. Conflating all of that into an article can be interesting.

 

[Cheesy]

Fake news, etc, blah blah blah

It's clear from this thread that nobody has a fecking clue as to what the EU means and represents. A few highlights...

If you are remain you are a racist. Yet the EU doesn't have uncontrolled immigration with non EU countries for example in Africa...??? Work that out. Only racist to restrict immigration of europeans?

People won't work in other countries in the EU if you're from the UK, and vice versa. Sorry to break it to you this was happening a long time before the formation of the EU.

Access to the single market means no trade between UK/EU......really ffs.

Lower cost labour is only available from the EU.

loads more lol, scaremongering cnuts...

The EU has free movement between countries within the EU, and has certain criteria countries must be in order to join, and be deemed capable of joining in with that freedom of movement. If the EU wishes to expand into Africa and the countries there do meet the required criteria, then they can by all means join - of course, most of them would fall short in a number of categories.

Very few people are saying it's not going to be possible to live/work in other countries, but Brexit will make it more difficult than it is at the moment presuming freedom of movement is scrapped. Again, don't see how that's a difficult one to get.

 

[JPRouve]

The EU has free movement between countries within the EU, and has certain criteria countries must be in order to join, and be deemed capable of joining in with that freedom of movement. If the EU wishes to expand into Africa and the countries there do meet the required criteria, then they can by all means join - of course, most of them would fall short in a number of categories.

Very few people are saying it's not going to be possible to live/work in other countries, but Brexit will make it more difficult than it is at the moment presuming freedom of movement is scrapped. Again, don't see how that's a difficult one to get.

And EU members come from the Europe Council.

 

[Ubik]

Just watching reacting from around Europe on Newsnight - they really don't give a shit about us They're gonna give us a tough time to say the least.

[No I did not post this ten minutes ago in the wrong thread ]

 

[Rams]

In a way I'm pleased art. 50 has finally triggered because we're now going to see the true impact of Brexit and the impact on Britain. I hope I'm wrong, but thinking objectively I really think Britain is going to be a lot worse for it. For example, I know for a fact that insurers are already moving their European HQ's out of London and setting up new companies in mainland Europe.

 

[Wibble]

Insults, insults....Always the bloody same with EU apologists....


So here you go for headlines

I believe in democracy – the EU is undemocratic.
I believe in Free Trade – the EU is protectionist
I believe in transparency and accountability – the EU isn’t
I believe countries should govern themselves for the benefit of their own citizens – the EU doesn’t
I believe in Lean Government – the EU is a bureaucratic nightmare
I don’t like subsidising losers – the EU loves it
I object to paying tax to rescue basket case banks and economies – the EU loves spending my tax rescuing basket case banks and economies
I believe it’s stupid to push Putin too far – the EU already has
I don’t think you can treat 28 different countries, economies and cultures as one homogenous nation – the EU thinks it can and insists that it will
I like to deal directly with my elected politicians when I have a problem with what they’re doing – the EU couldn’t give a shit about individuals’ problems
I believe unemployment is a crime – the EU encourages unemployment
I don’t like open borders – the EU insists on open borders within mainland Europe.
I like clubs that set then respect their own rules – the EU only does this when its suits them.
I don’t like vindictive ex-lover bunny boilers – the EU is proving it is a bunny boiler par excellence
I believe in helping the 3rd World economies – the EU only does it when it’s to the EU’s own benefit

Kinell

Unemployment a crime?

 

[Mozza]

Tbf, having a single interest rate and no ability for members to print their own currency is a massive economic problem. -North and South Europe are very different economies.

Having your wages inflated away buy having your currency tank isn't pleasent

 

[jackofalltrades]

Poor Boris, he said he believes in having your cake and eating it. Well, he's going go have tons of humble pie.

 

[Jippy]

Having your wages inflated away buy having your currency tank isn't pleasent

That's what's happening in the UK- inflation now at a four year high and I had to buy a bunch of dollars the other week. Expensive.

 

[Giant Midget]

I don’t like subsidising losers – the EU loves it

I believe in helping the 3rd World economies – the EU only does it when it’s to the EU’s own benefit

No white text? Subsidies ARE help.

 

[Mozza]

That's what's happening in the UK- inflation now at a four year high and I had to buy a bunch of dollars the other week. Expensive.

Right. So I don't see why when talking about Greece people make it sound like a painless option, do this and the economies fixed, when the payment comes from the poor and people on fixed incomes

 

[Stanley Road]

Kinell

Unemployment a crime?

It depends how you interpret it, allowing unemployment to reach high percentages is criminal. Especially without any policy or economic strategy in place to combat it.

Is that the eu fault, you can argue yes or no but you can definately link it.to the clubs economic policies. Is.the single currency to blame? Definately

If you try to see it from that point of view then FBR statement makes perfect sense.

 

[Wibble]

It depends how you interpret it, allowing unemployment to reach high percentages is criminal. Especially without any policy or economic strategy in place to combat it.

Is that the eu fault, you can argue yes or no but you can definately link it.to the clubs economic policies. Is.the single currency to blame? Definately

If you try to see it from that point of view then FBR statement makes perfect sense.

Maybe/hopefully that is what he meant. Still bullshit of course as unemployment will get worse by us leaving. Plus much/most of the rest of his list is a bit bizarre.

 

[RedSky]

Sorry but

He's obviously not a regular Eurovision viewer!

 

[Jippy]

Right. So I don't see why when talking about Greece people make it sound like a painless option, do this and the economies fixed, when the payment comes from the poor and people on fixed incomes

Not sure many people genuinely believe that the process Greece has been through, and is still going through, has been painless. I went to Athens last year and the very intense cabbie was ranting about austerity. The unemployment rate is frightening, people have lost part of their pensions- the situation is pretty desperate for many and ongoing.

 

[Mozza]

Not sure many people genuinely believe that the process Greece has been through, and is still going through, has been painless. I went to Athens last year and the very intense cabbie was ranting about austerity. The unemployment rate is frightening, people have lost part of their pensions- the situation is pretty desperate for many and ongoing.

I never argued either was painless. Just those who advocate a free floating currency never mention that it too brings pain. Ireland recovered fairly well within the euro

 

[Smores]

I don't see how continuing to pay for agreed projects until they end is an exit fee either. I suppose it's the running theme of Brexit, everyone wants answers to everything now, right away, whereas in reality we'll only learn little by little, and slowly. Still that gives lots of room for confident predictions and boasting bets about the future, so it seems to be keeping everyone happy, along with the insults of course.

It doesn't help that the media don't explain the context and stick to a catchy phrase of exit fee.

To be fair leavers are the type of people who would commit to a group purchase only to change their mind after and leave everyone else with the bill. Simple folk mainly. Bet they skip queues on the motorway as well the cnuts.

 

[711]

 

[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

She's always been wishy-washy on the whole thing. Was rumoured to support Brexit, campaigned for Remain but didn't really campaign for Remain, and became this ardent Brexiter determined to give a voice to people she wouldn't have given a feck about had their vote share been slightly less. For all her talk of holding honest Christian values, she comes across as an unconvincing flip-flopper on a level that would make even Cameron blush.

I don't think she is getting a good deal. She isn't a leader, she sounds too uncertain.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I don't think she is getting a good deal. She isn't a leader, she sounds too uncertain.

She isn't uncertain. How can a leader of a democratic country go against a democratic mandate and retain any credibility? Her position before is irrelevant. She is setting her stall out strongly which are basic negotiating tactics and the 'remoaners' are sh*tting the bed because they think that will be the final picture.

 

[Dobba]

She isn't uncertain. How can a leader of a democratic country go against a democratic mandate and retain any credibility? Her position before is irrelevant. She is setting her stall out strongly which are basic negotiating tactics and the 'remoaners' are sh*tting the bed because they think that will be the final picture.

Maybe we can ask Scotland?

 

[Zarlak]

Just watching reacting from around Europe on Newsnight - they really don't give a shit about us They're gonna give us a tough time to say the least.

[No I did not post this ten minutes ago in the wrong thread ]

Of course they don't. The pro Brexiters rabbiting on about how much they need us and how important we are and how MASSIVE the UK is and how the EU will beg us for a great deal were told they were talking bollocks at the time. It was pointed out how little our trade matters to the EU as a whole vs how much their trade means to us and it was glossed over every time.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Just an add-on to my reply Bury Red's post - it's usually Paul who accusues BREXIT supporters of being xenophobic / racist / ignorant.

These are some of the reasons and together with delusion, head in the sand and living in fantasy land but by reading the last 2 or 3 pages, I rest my case

 

[Dobba]

It wasn't a threat...it was a veiled threat.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

It wasn't a threat...it was a veiled threat.

It shouldn't have even been mentioned because all it does is a) piss off the very people that we're about to start negotiating with and b) tell them that we haven't really got a pot to piss in before entering these negotiations.

It has no bearing on us getting a deal whatsoever as even a complete imbecile can see that it would only be damaging to both sides.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Having your wages inflated away buy having your currency tank isn't pleasent

We could always jetison the weak economic countries and the Euro would shoot through the roof and the weaker economic countries who would leave the Euro would find their currencies devalue consistently and inflation spiralling out of control.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

Maybe we can ask Scotland?

Yes, but how many times should we ask them, is it best out of three, five, endlessly?

 

[Full bodied red]

So here you go for headlines

I believe in democracy – the EU is undemocratic.

Despite literally every decision being voted on by every single one of its members?

The EU has four 'Presidents' plus the President of the ECB.
The EU has 28 Commissioners who make policy and introduce legislation.

Remind me again how many EU citizens actually voted for these 32 Presidents and Commissioners, who are usually professional politicos who've already been kicked out by the electorates in their own countries. It's an Old Boys Club of Europhiles who HAVE NOT been elected but make the rules which govern its members. Yes, the EU Parliament's MEPs are elected and have to approve new legislation, but unlike, say, the UK, MEPs cannot propose new legislation - that is reserved exclusively for the Commissioners.

So we end up with legislation and laws which are dreamed up and implemented by 32 unelected Presidents and Commissioners. Jesus bloody Christ, Baroness Ashton who the UK sent to the EU Commission as the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs proudly boasted that she'd never won an election in her life as she was appointed directly to the House of Lords by Blair without ever being an MP.

But I'll tell you the killer.....As you appear to be, shall we say, left of centre ( I am by the way ) you will have no doubt worshiped at the feet of Tony Benn at some point in your life as I did I'll remind you of his opinion of the EU. Benn, who was very anti-EU, said we should ask the Commission the following - my answers in red, of course, on their behalf.

Ask the powerful five questions:


WHAT POWER HAVE YOU GOT? All of it
WHERE DID YOU GET IT FROM? The people who appointed us
IN WHOSE INTERESTS DO YOU EXERCISE IT? The European Union
TO WHOM ARE YOU ACCOUNTABLE? Nobody, really
HOW CAN WE GET RID OF YOU ? You can't


Only Democracy gives us that right. That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.

Based on this philosophy from a giant amongst UK politicians, you're still going to argue that the EU is democratic ? Democratic in the sense that all its members have elected Government which makes policy and legislation while the EU doesn't ?


I believe in Free Trade – the EU is protectionist

The EU promotes completely free trade within the EU meaning we can trade freely with our biggest trading partners. Trade outside the EU comes with tariffs and restrictions.

The situation now is going to be tariffs and restrictions with our biggest trading partners as well as tariffs and restrictions with non-EU countries. So very much not free-trade.

You've just answered for me. If you're not a member, no free trade. And if you are a member, you can't do your own free trade deals with non-members. You're really trying to argue that that isn't protectionist ?

And does the EU have Free Trade with all the world's largest economies ? Of course it hasn't....

USA - No FTA
China - No FTA
Japan - No FTA
Germany - An internal FTA
UK - Soon won't have an FTA
France - An internal FTA
India - No FTA
Italy - An internal FTA
Brazil - No FTA
Canada - Just got one, after seven years of negotiations.

So the UK and France, for example, haven't got FTAs with these either even though they would like one. And the UK can't even start discussing Trade Deals with non-EU members until it's actually left the EU. Very democratic on the EU's part....

And you're still trying to tell me the EU isn't protectionist ?

I'm sure the UK would accept Tariff Free Trade with remaining EU members after it leaves. Do you think the EU will accept the UK's offer on behalf of its members who would like to continue exporting Tarrif Free to the UK. Of course not...Dream on....

And you're still trying to tell me the EU isn't protectionist ?



I believe in transparency and accountability – the EU isn’t

That's just more fluff.

How many years was it that the EU's own Auditors and its independent Auditors refused to sign off the EU's accounts. About 18, wasn't it ?

Since 2007, the European Cort of Auditors ( but EU employees, don't forget ) has signed off the EU's accounts and pointed out that, for instance in 2014, 4.4% of money given by the EU to its members ' were not used in accordance with the EU rules '. It did stress that this 'is not a measure of fraud, inefficiency or waste', but money that 'should not have been paid out because it was not used in accordance with the applicable rules and regulations'

Has the EU actually let any of us know who the culprits were ? Of course not....

Has the EU asked any of the countries to return this money ? Od course not....

Have any EU Politicians lost their job as a result of ' carelessness ' or ' lack of oversight ' as a UK Politician would in these circumstances ?

And didn't the EU's own Chief Accountant publically state that the EU's finance systems were open to fraud, and in repsonse the EU fired her rather than improve its systems ?

Not just 'fluff' as you call it - hard facts that EU apologists choose to ignore.



I believe countries should govern themselves for the benefit of their own citizens – the EU doesn’t

More Farage induced waffle. The decisions our government have made is on our government, they chose to flog off our Fishing quotas to European mega-trawlers and the immigration policies have been decided by them, if they wanted it to be stricter there was nothing stopping them.

Unless you are talking about workers rights and human rights

Standard bolleaux for EU apologists to label everything they don't like as 'waffle'

I'm not talking about Fishing Rights and Immigration. At the last count, the UK Government ( and probably the next one ) will have to review and decide whether to keep or cancel about 2,700 pieces of EU legislation which have had to be incorporated into UK law, and most were imposed on the UK because it was a member of the EU at the time the EU introduced the legislation, whether the UK wanted to or not. The way the EU has wormed its way into ALL its members' legislation has been insidious, to the extent that the UK Government cannot now just leave without a major rewrite of massive chunks of UK legislation through THE GREAT REPEAL BILL.

Workers' ( with an apostrophe, please ) Rights I totally agree with, and hope all EU legislation will remain within UK law - but just don't get me started on 'uman Rights and the ECJ and ECHR. May was right yesterday - probably as many people who voted BREXIT because of immigration voted BREXIT to get rid of the ECJ and the ECHR.

France ( even more so because we're stuck in the Eurozone ) and the UK have their own elected Governments to run France and the UK respectively. How can that be done effectively and for the benefit of their citizens if half the time their hands are tied behind their backs by EU legislation, the ECB, the ECJ and the ECHR and if they're members of the Eurozone like we are here be called fully self-governing if the annual budget has to be submitted to the ECB for the the ECB's approval ?



I believe in Lean Government – the EU is a bureaucratic nightmare

The UK government is in now way bloated and bureaucratic. It's crazy how many Brexiteers sudenly have such huge faith in the British government to look after the people's interests.

I pay taxes to a whole host of parasites - my local town council, the Department of Le Var, the Region of Provence, Alpes and Cote d'Azur, and the French Government. They all collect money from me and then decide themselves how to spend it. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose, but at least if I feel as though I'm losing too often, I can vote to replace the politicians who are pissing me off, either by wasting money on vanity projects or not spending what I think needs to be spent and on what.

Can I do that with the Top Layer of parasites - the EU ? Of course not. They take my money and spend it as they want without being accountable to the Tax Payers from whom they take it.

And as if every Government around the world isn't overly bureaucratic and bloated, you really believe that the EU is the single exception ? If you've ever had to deal with the EU, as I have had to, you'd know that the EU is an immense empire of automotons in hundreds of departments producing millions of unfathomable rules and regulations which, just like a Sth AMerican banana republic, all pass the responsibility for implementation on to another department.

But you know what ? I have more faith in the French Government to look after my interests as a French resident than I would compared to an unelected UK Commissioner in the EU. Particularly tw*ts like Kinnock and Mandelson with their political allegience.



***I don’t like subsidising losers – the EU loves it

No....Not 3rd World countries. The EU continues to dish out billions to fund no hope projects such as building uneeded airports in Spain....Provides huge subsidies to inefficient French and Italian farmers who should really have gone bust years ago....Sets intervention prices for farm products and buys surplus production of farm produce which shouldn't have been grown in the first place....etc.

And all with mine ( and your ) taxes.



I object to paying tax to rescue basket case banks and economies – the EU loves spending my tax rescuing basket case banks and economies

What sort of world do you think we'd be living in if these countries were left to fail? Banks going bust would equate to, a massive rescission, huge scale unemployment, infrastructures left to rot, immigration spiking and a loss of trading partners. Despite what people seem to think, no prospering country has a closed economy. If you let your trade partners collapse, you're going to suffer yourself.

I can agree with what you say. But if a French bank is going to go under, why should an Irishman's taxes be used to rescue it ? Greece will never be allowed to default on its debts. instead the ECB will use EU taxpayers' money to keep bankrolling them. And why ? Because the ECB is Greece's biggest creditor - if Greece defaults, the euro would be on the very edge of collapse as well. So the EU will continue to lend to Europe's biggest basket case economy like some huge Ponzi scheme because it can't afford to stop.

But if you think it's absolutely OK to use taxpayers' money to rescue failing banks, prepare to dig deep in your own pockets to rescue the Italaian banking industry if that happens before 2019. And, surprise, surprise, to bail out Deutsche Bank, whose current exposure in futures contracts is € TRILLIONS and the German Government has already ruled out its own rescue if the shit hits the fan with these spivs and gamblers.



I believe it’s stupid to push Putin too far – the EU already has

What exactly have the EU done to push Putin? They're trying to contain his imperialism and latent disregard for democracy and human right.

The EU tried their own imperialism by wooing Ukraine to an EU membership. Then, while the EU were still trying to persuade the Dutch into reversing their own referendum result where the Dutch voters refused to approve accepting Ukraine as an EU member, Putin moved in.

Of course, the knuckleheads in Brussels either (a) forgot or (b) didn't realise or (c) ignored the fact that a large, ethnic and Russian speaking and culturally Russian population in Ukraine actually preferred closer ties with Moscow than Brussels. So it wa an easy sell for Putin - these Russian people don't want to join the EU, and we don't want the EU exerting political control over yet another country on our border.

But the EU was and remains impotent in the face of this Russian retaliation - sanctions will never work because Airbus need to sell planes and spares to Russia; Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Renault and Volvo all need to sell cars and trucks to Russia; half of the EU members need to buy oil and gas from Russia. So stopping a few millionaire Russians from getting EU travel visas is hardly standing up to Putin who is probably pissing himself laughing that the EU gave him such a wonderful opportunity to stick one over on them. If you really think he'll now back off, pull out of Ukraine, dream on.....




I don’t think you can treat 28 different countries, economies and cultures as one homogenous nation – the EU thinks it can and insists that it will

Despite promoting and celebrating the individual cultures of each nation and having different economic expectations of each country? The EU does absolutely nothing to suggest it's one homogenous nation. The clue is in the word "Union".

No...The clue is in the words ' closer integration '....' further integration '....'deeper integration '

I can't believe you've actually missed every single time these words have been used by Merkel, Hollande and Juncker since June 2015 to call the best way for the EU to react to BREXIT, although Merkel is recently talking about closer integration of just a few EU members to create a two speed EU as even she now realises that you can't treat the remaining 27 different countries and economies as one homogenous nation. Can the same economic policies fit both Malta and Germany ? Can the same social policies on H&S and Employees' Rights fit both Cypus and France ? Are the same banking regulations appropriate for both Italy and the UK given the state of the Italian banking sector ? I don't think they can, but the EU does and insists that they are applied.



I like to deal directly with my elected politicians when I have a problem with what they’re doing – the EU couldn’t give a shit about individuals’ problems

The EU gives another platform to fight your case on if your local and national systems are working against you.

I've no idea what you mean with your reply, but if you really do believe that someone in Brussels will accept, read and reply to a letter you send them, then you've obviously never sent them a letter.

I said they couldn't give a shit about individuals' problems because apart from legislation of Employees' Rights, which is to be welcomed, almost all EU legislation is about harmonising legislation amongst its members on things such as climate change and emissions; road signs; free trade and tariffs; infrastructure projects; banking regulations; design of cigarette packets, etc. Did you ever see similar heavy handed EU legislation to improve individuals' day-to-day problems ? About class sizes in schools ? About waste collection from your home ? About minimum pensions ? About patient / doctor / hospital beds ratios ?

No....Thought not....And maybe try writing to your MEP and asking why not, and then let us know if you get a reply.



I believe unemployment is a crime – the EU encourages unemployment

You're a fecking moron.

Insults...Insults...And without even a question why I said it.

If you don't think 20+million unemployed people under 25 throughout the Southern Med countries isn't criminal, then you proably work for the EU already.

And why are so many young unemployed people in these countries ? Because the EU, through the ECB, imposes strict spending limits on its Eurozone members which encourages ( OK - causes, results in, leads to, ) those governments having to meet EU fiscal targets which stops them spending their way out of recession, high unemployment, social deprivation, risks of right wing exteremism, etc, as the UK and the USA have done for generations.

The unemployed are not criminals - but EU Politicians and their economic policies are.

And you choose to support the EU in this ? Or are you just a ' Couldn't give a shit - I've got a job ' type of person ?



I don’t like open borders – the EU insists on open borders within mainland Europe.

He says without a whiff of irony from the comfort of his home in his adopted France.

You appear to confuse your beloved EU's Freedom of Movement 'pillar' with your beloved EU's Schengen Open Borders idea.

As far as Schengen goes, I would feel a whole lot more comfortable if I knew that petty criminals, terrorists, organised crime gangsters, drug dealers, escaped convicts, etc, couldn't just pitch up in France at will....Unchecked, unknown to the police, unidentified and unidentifiable, and anonymously.

As far as Freedon of Movement goes, I've nothing against that in principle. But do do object that the EU links Freedom of Movement to SIngla Market tariff free access. Where is the economic need / justification that the two are inextricably linked ?

As far as I can see, Freedon of Movement is just another EU ideology imposed on its members for no other reason than to have different nationalities and cultures scattered around the EU as a small but important contributor to the EU becoming just one homogenous nation.



I like clubs that set respect their own rules – the EU only does this when its suits them.

More Faragian waffle.

You mean France regularly exceeding its EU Fiscal Targets with its Budget Deficit while the EU just sits and watches is just Faragian waffle ?

You mean Germany regularly exceeding its EU Fiscal Targets with its Balance of Payments surplus while the EU just sits and watches is just Faragian waffle ?

The EU only applies its rules when it suits them....Or when the 'guilty' member is one of the smaller countries. And I'll give you a very simple example -

I have a friend who was a pilot working for Malev, the State owned Hungarian airline. In 2012, the airline folded and he was made redundant because the unelected EU Commission said it was against EU law for the elected Hungarian Government to use Hungarian taxpayers money to invest a further €300 million in a Hungarian company to keep it afloat, because that would be a State Subsidy and which is illegal under EU legislation.

He then went to work for Ryanair. Ryanair doesn't receive any State Subsidies, of course. What it has received, however, over the past 15 years or so are € millions from Regional Governments in Spain, Italy, Belgium, etc, in the way of reduced fees for using the Regional Airports in those countries which are owned and / or subsidised by the Regional Governments. And where do you think these Regional Governments get a large percentage of their money from ? The EU of course, who dish out € billions to these Governments from their Regional Development Fund.

End result ? A couple of thousand unemployed Hungarians, while Spaniards wre able to fly from Gerona to Brussels for €10, subsidised by UK taxpayers.

Like I said - only when it suits them.



I don’t like vindictive ex-lover bunny boilers – the EU is proving it is a bunny boiler par excellence

Because it's not letting us have our cake and eat it?

I'm still waiting for the EU to point to the membership rules which say that countries leaving the EU have to pay to leave. As you appear to know so much about the EU, perhaps you can help me and provide me with a link to that piece of EU legislation.

If anything was evidence that the EU is shit scared that others might decide to leave, this is surely it.

Presumably you wouldn't mind it if you decided to move from your present home to aother place in a different council area, you'd have to pay the previous council for the priviledge. I mean, the council had already planned on getting your council tax to build that new school in a couple of years time, and now you won't be paying them. And the council will have to pay pensions to all those people who were working in the Town Hall when you live there. but you won't be living there when these people retire.

So that'd be OK with you, then ?

No...The UK has paid almost €500 BILLION to the EU since it joined - it's the EU who want to have their cake and be able to eat it.



***I believe in helping the 3rd World economies – the EU only does it when it’s to the EU’s own benefit

Sure the ERU hands out gifts and loans to 3rd World Countries. But what they really need is Traiff Free acess to the EU to sell their products into the EU

And the list of those that do have Tariff Free access ?

Go check yourself - it's pretty small. And it consists of mainly ex-colonies so that the EU has access to those countries' Natural Resources and can ship into those countries all the tools and equipment they need to extract those resources.


OK....Now something similar from yourself instead of the usual EU Apologists insults and sarcasm about straight bananas.

 

[Dobba]

Yes, but how many times should we ask them, is it best out of three, five, endlessly?

So democracy. But not too much of it too soon.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Maybe we can ask Scotland?

Ask the SNP given that they go against their own parliament when it suits them.

Brexit is a different order of magnitude altogether. The most important issue facing the UK since WW2.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

On the Brexit fee debate.

If I remember it correctly we were told that EU membership costs Britain 8 billion pounds a year net.

We decide to leave and then we are told that we owe 50 billion pounds more.

Doesn't that mean that it was actually costing us more than the stated figure to be a member because that is 6 or seven times the stated annual cost and didn't some people get very upset about lies on some bus or other with regards to how much the EU costs the UK.

 

[Zarlak]

On the Brexit fee debate.

If I remember it correctly we were told that EU membership costs Britain 8 billion pounds a year net.

We decide to leave and then we are told that we owe 50 billion pounds more.

Doesn't that mean that it was actually costing us more than the stated figure to be a member because that is 6 or seven times the stated annual cost and didn't some people get very upset about lies on some bus or other with regards to how much the EU costs the UK.

No, people got upset mainly because the figure reported wasn't true and because the leave campaign promised that money would go to the NHS only for them to deny ever having said it the day after and saying that it wasn't going to the NHS at all. Also money owed isn't the same as a clearly defined yearly cost.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Whatever the fee is that the Uk have to pay, which is not known yet, and clearly nobody knows what the bill is for, it would be worth it to write it off just to ensure all the UKIP MEP's don't get their pensions and have them charged with Fake Jobs