Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?


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Controlled immigration isn't the issue, I don't believe anyone in the UK has a problem with anyone who wants to come here to escape persecution of any kind in any country.
The issue a I see it, is the uncontrolled illegal immigration coming from France via small boats across the channel, however big or small it is, it is putting a burden on all of those of us who pay taxes, and live in towns where these people are being accommodated.
The UK is the most attractive place in Europe for these people, nowhere else do they get similar benefits and tolerance.

I don't believe Rwanda is the solution, there has to be a simpler and cheaper one, similar to the one Australia adopted.

This is not true. In Spain they get housed for free, they get free mobile phone contract, their kids go to school free, they get an allowance and they get placed on integration and work placement programs. All that and they get better weather. This is not a UK “Problem” nor is the UK burdened any more than any other European country who all have similar challenges.
 
So what like 0.5% of the UK’s GDP? I have to listen to so many people/politicians/media go on and on and on about something comparatively that small?

Apparently wastage in the public sector is costing the UK £10 billlion per year. I wonder why that isn’t talked about in the media any where near as much as migration and boats.
Because it doesn't win votes. The same way obesity costs the NHS twice as much as smoking but also gets less attention
 
Government figures year to date June 2023 for legal immigration was 627,000, half what you say
Illegal detected immigration via "small boats" was 53000
As for it not being a blight on the economy, it depends on how you look at it, the Government says it costs £5.6m a day to keep "asylum seekers" in hotels and other accommodation.
It costs roughly 1.5times more to keep an asylum seeker than it does to pay a nurse.
The governments own figures say the situation will get worse, and will most likely hit 60000 this year, and could cost the country £13bn per year.

Most legal immigrants end up contributing to the economy in some way.
Illegal immigrant who disappear into the back streets contribute into the economy in no way at all, they tend to fall into crime or the black market economy, sending money back home to fund more crossings.
You’re describing the stuff our government is doing as a political decision and what they’re failing at.

Ultimately it’s not the reason this country has gone to pot and gets a disproportionate amount of attention in the press to influence good people like you.

Don’t let it make you angry, that’s what they want. The government are the enemy, not the poor people risking their lives to get to a safe country that they know they’ll be happy in (some come here, most go elsewhere, we should do our bit).

Do some reading into the subject, there will be a lot of well written articles explaining what’s really happening (Paul’s post above is a fab start).
 
Net immigration if you take off those who have returned is lower of course - but 200k have returned to Europe alone.
Small boats people are not illegal immigrants if they claim refugee/asylum status upon arrival. The trafficking of these people is illegal. Illegal immigration are those who stay without permission eg visa overstayers and are not refugees or haven't claimed asylum. For example there are lot of British people in France, Spain etc who have overstayed their allotted time and are therefore illegal immigrants.

If the asylum seekers/refugees' applications were processed, processing is the problem caused by the inefficiency of the government, 70% approx would become workers or tax paying citizens and contribute to the economy. If they do not have legitimate claims they can be returned to their country, assuming it is safe.

Do you not think that countries like Germany, France, Italy, Spain etc have far more applicants than the UK. There's a centre in our local town of 3000 people , zero problems. People are well treated in modern accommodation.

It's used by the government like in Brexit to cover their own failures. Focus people minds on a small number of people to deflect attention.
The far right in France, Germany other western European countries use immigrants as weapons too.
Any true asylum seeker has a safe route into this country via the airports and ports, where they can contact border control, they do not have to pay a human trafficker £000's to cross one of the busiest and most dangerous waterways in the world in order to get here, they are told to dispose of all their papers as they cross, to hide their identity and country of origin.
Afghan refugee's are given a safe route, they follow that route.
Almost all Channel migrants arrive without passports after being told to shred ID (telegraph.co.uk)
Most of those arriving are also young men, the ratio of older men, women and children to younger men is very low.
For every story, every report, there is a counter story, I will believe what my friends who work for the RNLI and rescue these people tell me what is happening.
 
And all those years ago there was no brexit

There was no EC/EU in the UK either in the 60s when I was growing up. The point is that if the UK voted against immigration in Brexit, they could only have been voting against immigration from EU citizens. Whom are they going to vote against next now that the overwhelming number of immigrants are from outside the EU? They have total control (and always did have) but now both the Tories and Labour both spout the rubbish "We've lost control of our borders" because of the tiny number of people in boats. And furthermore neither have any idea of the number of real illegal immigrants who arrive, say on a tourist visa, don't go back and vanish into the ether.
 
Any true asylum seeker has a safe route into this country via the airports and ports, where they can contact border control, they do not have to pay a human trafficker £000's to cross one of the busiest and most dangerous waterways in the world in order to get here, they are told to dispose of all their papers as they cross, to hide their identity and country of origin.
Afghan refugee's are given a safe route, they follow that route.
Almost all Channel migrants arrive without passports after being told to shred ID (telegraph.co.uk)
Most of those arriving are also young men, the ratio of older men, women and children to younger men is very low.
For every story, every report, there is a counter story, I will believe what my friends who work for the RNLI and rescue these people tell me what is happening.

It's not up to border control to process their application. There should be proper places like embassies and processing centres etc but the Uk have been offered this; They don't want it because if the boat people problem was actually solved they'd have to find someone else to blame. Telegraph, hmm. It's not illegal to leave a country. They were offered places in Calais to process people - no they didn't want that. There are less than a handful of safe routes to the UK available to these people. These boat crossings only really started after Brexit. You have to be in the country to claim asylum which they have the right to do.
 
Any true asylum seeker has a safe route into this country via the airports and ports

I'm only going by what I've googled here but this is what the Amnesty International website says on the matter

The Home Secretary has created two visa routes for people to receive asylum in the UK from the war in Ukraine – one is based on having family in the UK, the other on having someone in the UK willing to provide a home.

There is also a visa route for Afghans who have previously worked for the UK Government (including the British Army) and can show serious risks to them in Afghanistan because of this.

And the partners and children of people granted asylum in the UK may apply for a visa to be reunited in the UK – though the Nationality and Borders Act 2022 was passed to close or significantly obstruct this route to most people who would otherwise be eligible for it.

Otherwise, there are no visa schemes for anyone fleeing persecution to apply to receive asylum in the UK – no matter what family or other connection the person may have here.
 
And it's such a great idea that no-one else has thought of it

Hmm. Yes.

I'm just going to hire a coach and go and collect all the British people I know who shouldn't be here, overstayers . Can round up about 20 or 30 in a 10 miles radius. Now shall I take them to the airport and put them on a plane back to blighty or send them to North Korea as I have decided that it is a safe place. I'd love to see the indignation on their faces.
 
It's not up to border control to process their application. There should be proper places like embassies and processing centres etc but the Uk have been offered this; They don't want it because if the boat people problem was actually solved they'd have to find someone else to blame. Telegraph, hmm. It's not illegal to leave a country. They were offered places in Calais to process people - no they didn't want that. There are less than a handful of safe routes to the UK available to these people. These boat crossings only really started after Brexit. You have to be in the country to claim asylum which they have the right to do.
I don't think you know how Border Control works.
If you arrive in the UK without the necessary documents you were taken to a holding centre, those centres have been overrun by the numbers arriving, so they are being sent to other holding places like hotels, disused army camps or even accommodation barges.
Article 31 of the UN convention on refugees states
"Although it’s certainly true that crossing the Channel without authorisation isn’t a legal way to enter the UK, Article 31 of the UN Refugee Convention states that refugees cannot be penalised for entering the country illegally to claim asylum if they are “coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened” provided they “present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence”.

A lot depends here on how to interpret which country people are “coming directly from”. It could be argued, for instance, that as the people crossing the channel are coming directly from France—which is not the country they initially fled—they don’t have the right to claim asylum in the UK.
 
I don't think you know how Border Control works.
If you arrive in the UK without the necessary documents you were taken to a holding centre, those centres have been overrun by the numbers arriving, so they are being sent to other holding places like hotels, disused army camps or even accommodation barges.
Article 31 of the UN convention on refugees states
"Although it’s certainly true that crossing the Channel without authorisation isn’t a legal way to enter the UK, Article 31 of the UN Refugee Convention states that refugees cannot be penalised for entering the country illegally to claim asylum if they are “coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened” provided they “present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence”.

A lot depends here on how to interpret which country people are “coming directly from”. It could be argued, for instance, that as the people crossing the channel are coming directly from France—which is not the country they initially fled—they don’t have the right to claim asylum in the UK.
There is no obligation for asylum seekers to apply for asylum in the first country they enter, otherwise it’d be hugely unfair on neighbouring countries and lucky for those that are on islands.
 
I don't think you know how Border Control works.
If you arrive in the UK without the necessary documents you were taken to a holding centre, those centres have been overrun by the numbers arriving, so they are being sent to other holding places like hotels, disused army camps or even accommodation barges.
Article 31 of the UN convention on refugees states
"Although it’s certainly true that crossing the Channel without authorisation isn’t a legal way to enter the UK, Article 31 of the UN Refugee Convention states that refugees cannot be penalised for entering the country illegally to claim asylum if they are “coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened” provided they “present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence”.

A lot depends here on how to interpret which country people are “coming directly from”. It could be argued, for instance, that as the people crossing the channel are coming directly from France—which is not the country they initially fled—they don’t have the right to claim asylum in the UK.

They have to be on British soil to claim Asylum ie in an Embassy or actually not stopped at a border point. You don't understand. France is not the first country they enter. They can choose whichever country they want to claim asylum.

Under your logic all the countries would send everyone back to where they first entered Europe. Additionally if someone were to be sent to Rwanda they could claim that they were already in a safe country before, ie the UK.

And the places are overrun because the government is not processing the people. Probably the people processing them were EU citizens and they've all gone back to the EU, the irony.
 
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Any true asylum seeker has a safe route into this country via the airports and ports, where they can contact border control, they do not have to pay a human trafficker £000's to cross one of the busiest and most dangerous waterways in the world in order to get here, they are told to dispose of all their papers as they cross, to hide their identity and country of origin.

The inherent characteristics of an asylum seeker say otherwise. They usually seek for asylum because they are somehow persecuted by the state or the state's laws in their countries of origin. Therefore they tend to not have the means to arrive to a different country by airports and ports as they'd need passports or VISA with clearance from their countries of origin to do that.

In order to circunvent this, most countries allow embassies to act as both a safe haven for asylum seekers and a way to adequately command and control the process. The UK does not, therefore leaving them with no feasible legal way to seek for asylum.

Now if you're talking about illegal immigration, that's a different beast.
 
Badenoch may just be dumber than Truss...

‘It’s all a bit marginal’: claims of Brexit trade perks don’t add up, say firms

A business department report trumpeting the four-year benefits of leaving the EU does not match the reality faced by companies

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...irms-business-department-leaving-eu-companies

Anyone who thought Brexit was a good idea at the time of the referendum was stupid, uninformed and gullible.
Anyone who still thinks Brexit is a good idea is a moronic dildo, to put it politely.
 


Another of those idiots who it never occurred to that any change of rules would apply to them even if it isn't convenient.

Then again anyone who takes their political advice from listening to a metal band's singer has to be a bit thick.
 
Another of those idiots who it never occurred to that any change of rules would apply to them even if it isn't convenient.

Then again anyone who takes their political advice from listening to a metal band's singer has to be a bit thick.

There is an exception though,

 
Another of those idiots who it never occurred to that any change of rules would apply to them even if it isn't convenient.

Then again anyone who takes their political advice from listening to a metal band's singer has to be a bit thick.
First of all I really like his views on why he doesn't want to pay tax in UK.

Secondly I hate his music and don't understand why I can see any British band I want in NL yet he has issues.
 
Any true asylum seeker has a safe route into this country via the airports and ports, where they can contact border control, they do not have to pay a human trafficker £000's to cross one of the busiest and most dangerous waterways in the world in order to get here, they are told to dispose of all their papers as they cross, to hide their identity and country of origin.
Afghan refugee's are given a safe route, they follow that route.
Almost all Channel migrants arrive without passports after being told to shred ID (telegraph.co.uk)
Most of those arriving are also young men, the ratio of older men, women and children to younger men is very low.
For every story, every report, there is a counter story, I will believe what my friends who work for the RNLI and rescue these people tell me what is happening.

You have to be pretty desperate to risk your life on a boat crossing no matter who you consider a "genuine" refugee, and don't you think they would arrive by safer ways if they could?

Stupid and cruel and likely illegal "solutions" like Rwanda treat a symptom and not the cause. And give the Tories the bragging wrights to saving middle England from (mostly dark skinned) dangerous foreigners.