Who would have thought that something cooked up by Liz Truss and Jacob Rees-Mogg would be reckless and badly designed?
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Who would have thought that something cooked up by Liz Truss and Jacob Rees-Mogg would be reckless and badly designed?
This is also amazing as the same people are claiming that Brexit hasn't been done yet because it is being frustrated by the liberals and the civil service.
Best line from the article:
The government has admitted it does not even know the definitive number of EU laws on the statute books.
My agreement with Brexit (such as it is) was that given what was happening politically and socially in the UK, before and immediately prior to the years preceding the referendum, in my opinion made it somewhat inevitable that 'to leave' would be the outcome. However, leaving an economic community in which we were a main player was a form of madness, equally remaining in a (growing ever-closer) political union i.e., eventually becoming a United States of Europe, was not in the UK's best interest either, for all sorts of reasons, predominately strategic defense planning, as two world wars have taught us.
Therefore, the economic price of leaving is therefore high, as @Paul the Wolf and @Buster15 continually remind us. I would like us to be able to do a deal with the EU on economic grounds but whilst we have a Tory government that is highly unlikely, although Starmer is it seems making some overtures, in an effort to make Brexit work.
The 'up-side' (if you think there is one) of our current post Brexit position is that we are now going to have to drastically change our economic strategy (for growth) to lessen the reliance on Banking and the City of London money-making and get back to designing, developing and manufacturing high technology/high value products, (whilst there are still people around who know what a 'micron' is) especially those products and processes which underpin a green future. For this we need a first-class system of education, from 'early years' provision, through primary secondary and tertiary (14-19) education, into Higher Education with return to learn opportunities for anyone at any age. The government has to invest in and to organise this, and also industry has to adapt and invest in the hardware, also we all have to pay in enough money and resources so that every person can achieve their own potential in their own sphere of interest.
It's going to be a long hard road, the effects of Covid, the War in Ukraine as well as fallout from Brexit itself will all put a drag on things.
I am not cheering at all, but I am hopefully that we can at last start to learn from the past!
Yes, spot on, no matter how much moaning about the past goes on it solves nothing, the past is the past, we have to deal with it!
You are right, nothing would have really altered the Brexit outcome, given the state of play leading up to the referendum.
I disagree, the result was so close that I think it could have been altered.
The EU/ EEC/EC was never just an economic community, not in the 1950s or the 1970s when the UK joined - or in the 1990s or now. One of the main aims of the European Community was to avoid wars in Europe which had been prevalent for centuries.
The only country who doesn't seemed to have learned from the mistakes of the past is the UK. To boast about fighting the Nazis in WW2 only to vote for what is basically a far-right fascist government is a bit rich.
Economically it was suicidal. As immigration is higher than ever, that hasn't worked either and never will.
A return to the EU is not happening in our lifetimes but the government are trying to pull as far away as possible. Removing EU laws or people's rights will not only distance themselves from the EU but from the rest of the world as well. That needs to be stopped as a first step.
The UK cannot operate in this current world as an isolated nation.
I do not see what the ultimate target is. New trading opportunities are a fantasy, immigration will continue, it needs to. Putting up barriers everywhere, not only to the EU.
Where is the UK going?
The implementation of Brexit is not in the past, it has only just begun and will continue for the next few years to make matters worse.
All countries have the aftermath of Covid and Ukraine to deal with. The UK government only mention them as the cause of their problems.
As the effects from Covid and Ukraine diminish over the coming years they will have to find another excuse.
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I suppose we shall have to agree to disagree!
IMO the result was always going to have been 'to leave', because there were many and varied reasons why people voted for Brexit, but principally whatever specific reason individuals had they all wanted change; however, there was only one reason to vote to remain, that was to keep things as they were.
Sure, not everyone was pi**ed off, but enough were, so that collectively they got Brexit over the line.
A salutary lesson for all future governments, when considering referendums.
I agree. I honestly think that if it had been a close Remain result (and by that I mean even 10% or 15%) there would have been so much political pressure to re-run the referendum, possibly mmore than once, until the country voted Leave. Didn't Farage say a 52/48 loss would necessitate a re-run?
See the SNP's approach to an independence referendum as a good example of this.
Cameron certainly fecked the country, but the seeds of this were sown over 40 years as Labour and the Tories used the EEC/EC/EU as a punching bag, blaming them for all their failings.
There were multiple off course but 2 examples that hooked people in, the red bus proclaiming millions back to the nhs and gove setting the narrative in peoples heads that you don’t need to listen to expert opinion, essentially brainwashing people. This topic, and the result was far to important to play out the way Tories played it. They reduced it to peoples worst fears, instead of looking at proper pros and cons of the decision facing them. Now the country will have to live with the awful fallout for decades before recovery
I was pretty sure the result would be leave too.
The government had been blaming the EU for years for their failures, always deflecting the blame. To accentuate the brainwashing they even managed to persuade red wall seats to vote for the party that were responsible for their problems. Now it's Covid and Ukraine and not Brexit.
Yes, it was the one thing the far left (Tony Benn etc*.) and the far right agreed on, if for different reasons. The EEC (as it was at the time) was not a good thing for advancing their political views, for the far left it was "a rich man's club," subject to perversion by the multi-nationals; for the far right it was taking control/loss of national sovereignty etc.
(* Corbyn was one who 'cut his teeth' on this)
Yes, lots of 'tall tales', to be fair on both sides were put into play in the run up to the referendum itself, but in many previous years of Tory mismanagement and Labours navel gazing and feeble opposition, left many people with nowhere to go to effect change, then up-stepped Cameron with what in simple terms became "shall we try something different" or shall we "stick with what we have". Everybody thought they could understand that!
They are lucky in that they have had covid and the war in ukraine to deflect people rather than hearing the real hard questions as a result of brexit
The hard questions will come in the next few years as things deteriorate more. Wonder who they'll find to blame then.
Exactly.
I honestly do believe that some people thought that they were in some way punishing the EU by voting to leave.
They saw the EU as the big bad guy who dared to pass laws which were to the benefit of the Union and not specifically the UK.
What they did not think of was that by voting to leaving the Union, they were actually punishing themselves and not the EU.
They had managed to paint the image of the EU as some anonymous monster intent on harming the UK whereas in fact the UK was one of the major players in what the EU did.
The UK have left and there's no going back in the foreseeable future. Damage limitation is the only possibility.
So what do people actually expect to happen now? I really don't see how they would believe that their lives will improve one iota.
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Pretty sure we will have to go back in some shape or form even if it is just as a rule taker. Being outside the single market will wreck our economy. Ultimately we will have to make huge internal political changes to modernise ourselves enough to make that work:
1) we need a new electoral system so that our politics cannot again be highjacked by a small group of newspaper owners aided and abetted by a conservative party representing a minority of the country but with a majority in Parliament. Populist lies have led us into this mess - they cannot lead us out. The Europeans simply won't trust us as long as we remain politically backward to this degree.
2) we need to ditch the monarchy. English nationalism is too inflexible and socially heirarchicial to accomadate an international perspective that is post imperial. It's no concidence that the Eton set who brought us Brexit are also fierce monarchists. Without a more socially mobile society we will continue to be divided as a country by class, nationality and race. Those divisions allow us to be manipulated by self serving elites.
3) we can't sign up to free movement of people completely and we need to establish natonal ID cards and other ways of securing our borders agaisnt mass migration. Not because it is currently a problem or because foreigners are evil, but because over a billion people are set to be displaced by climate change in the coming decades. A huge number of those people will head to Europe, far more than we are currently seeing, with even more dramatic implications for political stability there. However we do have a labour shortage which is creating inflation and bottlenecking growth, so that needs addressing coherently.
4) we need to invest in wealth creating industries like silicon manufacture on a massive scale. Taiwan currently does 90% of the world's silicon chips and when it gets retaken by China, that global industry will be up for grabs. America is already preparing for that but Europe is not. We should do this while we are out of the single market because once we are back in we won't be able to. We need to massively increase our R&D budget and attract and keep the best brains however we can. We also need to become world leaders in renewable energy, both as users and manufacturers. Otherwise fossil fuel costs will permanently crippple our economy.
If we don't do all these things, we will simply slide down the scale of wealthy countries, first becoming Italy and eventually over the course of 100 years becoming Albania. You're welcome.
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I agree that all UK governments for years made scapegoats out of the EC, remember the headlines about J Delors, especially the red tops the Mirror and the Sun.
However, I disagree about the red wall, this was all Labours own doing. For years Labour had run local councils and of course had Labour MPs in these constituencies, but the effort by Labour to, as we now call it 'levelling up' was practically nonexistent. They played political games, whilst these areas they were responsible for slowly slid into decay, unemployment rising, town centers becoming dilapidated, various companies many embedded for years were going to the wall, schools being run-down, and with hardly a murmur from the Labour controlled Councils/MP's.
There were exceptions of course some notable MPs, Frank Field for one, fought tooth and nail, but most accepted that at the next election come what may Labour would win the Council and the constituencies, so they got on with their infighting and proving their international socialist credentials. The irony being that even when Labour were in government it always seemed like the red wall areas were on the back row when it came to handing out the goodies!
Of course, for many years the Tories had given up on the red wall areas feeling nothing they could do would cause the necessary 'swing' to occur... then of course Brexit came along, a chance for a change, but Labour couldn't seem to make up its mind and the Tories stepped in, and with some help from Farage, persuaded many lifelong Labour voters to hold their noses and vote Tory; and as my grandfather would have said "may the Lord have mercy on their souls".
How one person ever believed in any of this rubbish is amazing. How over 17 million did is beyond belief.
Rishi Sunak giving speech to CBI
Sunak claims Brexit 'already delivering enormous benefits and opportunities' for UK
Q: How are you going to change relations with the EU on legal immigration and trade?
Sunak says he has already covered immigration.
He says he voted for Brexit. He claims it is “already delivering enormous benefits and opportunities for the country”. He cites control of immigration as one example.
If only someone knew what those enormous benefits and opportunities were.
Sunak claims Brexit 'already delivering enormous benefits and opportunities' for UK
Q: How are you going to change relations with the EU on legal immigration and trade?
Sunak says he has already covered immigration.
He says he voted for Brexit. He claims it is “already delivering enormous benefits and opportunities for the country”. He cites control of immigration as one example.
If only someone knew what those enormous benefits and opportunities were.
'If only someone knew what those enormous benefits and opportunities were.'
There aren't any, and he's lying.
There aren't any, and he's lying.
In that speech to the CBI, Sunak pointed out that "having proper control of our borders is a major benefit of Brexit"
Spot the deliberate mistake....
Clearly telling lies. Barefaced. How about owning up to their responsibilities and trying to fix it or at least make it less worse
For the so-called control of immigration, Brexit was a disaster.
It meant pulling out of the Dublin agreement.
It was supposed to be a fairer system - fairer to who?
Now there's a labour shortage for the jobs that really need doing but immigration has increased. Now you've got the wrong type of immigrant, not before.
There's no safe route for genuine asylum seekers.
The illegal immigrants are actually mainly those who overstay their welcome on tourist visas and melt into the background.
Plus there are not enough staff to treat the applications for immigration and there are not enough people to trace the real illegal immigrants.
Aye. This is the most frustrating and mind blowing thing about this whole mess. It literally took all of 5 minutes research to realise the whole thing was a load of bollocks yet millions still swallowed it up. I’m convinced most didn’t give a shit about the consequences and just went in with that bigoted “little England” mentality to get the immigrants out. Ironic really considering there’s more immigrants rocking up on the shores of Britain now than there ever was pre Brexit.
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Well dinghy donations to the Home Office are through the roof tbf. We must be making loads of money flogging them back to the people traffickers in France. Might even fill a little of the hole left by loaning a load of fake companies cash during the pandemic that they squirreled away overseas!
Wish Strachan’s Cigar was still here to explain that one…
That 100k will be taking hold any day now…
https://news.sky.com/story/uk-sees-highest-net-migration-since-second-world-war-12754404
Take back control of our borders was one of the primary claims of Brexit. Remember that.
And yet net migration of over 504,000 !!!!
So. To all those gullible halfwits who swallowed the lies, well done.
You have successfully trashed the UK economy for absolutely nothing.
Hope you are honest enough to admit that you have been conned by Boris and the rest of them.
Take back control of our borders was one of the primary claims of Brexit. Remember that.
And yet net migration of over 504,000 !!!!
So. To all those gullible halfwits who swallowed the lies, well done.
You have successfully trashed the UK economy for absolutely nothing.
Hope you are honest enough to admit that you have been conned by Boris and the rest of them.
This guy is now enjoying one of the 'enormous benefits and opportunities' of Brexit.
British man to be deported from Denmark under post-Brexit rules
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/25/british-man-deported-denmark-post-brexit-rules
British man to be deported from Denmark under post-Brexit rules
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/25/british-man-deported-denmark-post-brexit-rules
"the world's next silicon valley"
What mega-corp is going to choose the UK over the world's biggest single market? Eejit.
Still talking absolute nonsense.
Six and a half years after the referendum and it's basically still the same complete and utter rubbish.
PS there is no Swiss style deal on the table.
They're already blaming immigrants and asylum seekers, easy.
"the world's next silicon valley"
What mega-corp is going to choose the UK over the world's biggest single market? Eejit.
It's just the new pipedream that these Tories like to dangle for the gullible among us.
To be fair to Hunt 
he was at least listening to the questions and addressing them. After making her important points Eleanor Rigby would have been better served asking what plans he had to correct the OBR findings he did not agree with.
It's how far we've fallen when you're not having to listen about pork markets and immigration numbers from Patil/Cruella to every question.
he was at least listening to the questions and addressing them. After making her important points Eleanor Rigby would have been better served asking what plans he had to correct the OBR findings he did not agree with.It's how far we've fallen when you're not having to listen about pork markets and immigration numbers from Patil/Cruella to every question.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/26/brexit-britain-japan-trade-deal-exports-slump
Brexit blow: exports to Japan slump after ‘landmark’ free trade deal
First such accord after leaving EU was predicted to bring £15bn boost but UK now lags rivals
Brexit blow: exports to Japan slump after ‘landmark’ free trade deal
First such accord after leaving EU was predicted to bring £15bn boost but UK now lags rivals