Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?


  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
The thing is I don't think he is. There are even those in Government who know and accept the reality that Brexit is a disaster.

But we live in weird political times, and instead of showing leadership the majority of politicians now will come up with all sorts of half-brained solutions to make the deal 'work', all the time waiting for some mythical point in the future where the populace will the elected representatives to rejoin.

But he's been like this since the beginning. Remember the six point plan of unicorns.
If he thinks this will invite voters to vote for Labour, the Brexiters will still vote for Tories, the remainers will have given up hope and probably vote LibDems or Greens and the Scots will back the SNP for independence.
He's just talking absolute nonsense.

No the Uk's not going to rejoin the EU any time soon but this really is pathetic.
 
But he's been like this since the beginning. Remember the six point plan of unicorns.
If he thinks this will invite voters to vote for Labour, the Brexiters will still vote for Tories, the remainers will have given up hope and probably vote LibDems or Greens and the Scots will back the SNP for independence.
He's just talking absolute nonsense.

No the Uk's not going to rejoin the EU any time soon but this really is pathetic.

I agree!

No one can look at this and think everything is fine:



The next GE will probably be based on everything except Brexit, when that is the one thing we need to discuss.
 
I agree!

No one can look at this and think everything is fine:



The next GE will probably be based on everything except Brexit, when that is the one thing we need to discuss.


Jesus £100b per year?

I suppose Boris won't be putting that on a bus anytime soon.
 
So here we go: cherry-picking party in blue vs drifting-toward-Iceland in red? What will happen next??
 
How economically leftist is Scotland, and the SNP? I mean, Labour, like many parties that were properly economically left in the 70s, have been swept up by the neoliberalism of the 80s and are only a shell of themselves in this sense. If you actually care about socioeconomic equity, they're really not a good option anymore.
Straw poll but like my friends, if it was me then I'd increase taxes on inheritance and use the money to reopen many of our closed libraries and community centers, support the NHS more and help those in society that can't support themselves. And I say that as someone who is going to inherit quite a lot (hopefully not for a billion years). But realistically it's not enough, and the SNP have always been cosy to big business, especially oil, gas and renewables anyway so they know who has the real power in the world. They're also elitist when it comes to education (university good, college bad).

I don't think they're as left as people think. Sure, free medical prescriptions is usually the big headline that you get but like I said they're rather elitist when it comes to another public service; higher education. Public services have been cut quite drastically and even though the usual excuse is that it's a problem caused by Westminster there doesn't seem to be much support from Holyrood.

The real support actually comes from the members of parliament themselves. Our MP and MSP (Scottish parliament) are actively involved in local initiatives and start ups that rely on public donations. It's nice to see but it feels like a sticking plaster.

This is just my opinion but, regardless of their socioeconomic status, where the SNP seem to win against the other parties is on trust. When Sturgeon says that a richer Scotland would mean better funded public services then I would actually believe her, rather than scoff like I do when Johnson says his lies. I'd question how we're suddenly going to be better off, but I'd be confident that the money would actually be used to improve things rather than go in her back pocket.
 
Straw poll but like my friends, if it was me then I'd increase taxes on inheritance and use the money to reopen many of our closed libraries and community centers, support the NHS more and help those in society that can't support themselves. And I say that as someone who is going to inherit quite a lot (hopefully not for a billion years). But realistically it's not enough, and the SNP have always been cosy to big business, especially oil, gas and renewables anyway so they know who has the real power in the world. They're also elitist when it comes to education (university good, college bad).

I don't think they're as left as people think. Sure, free medical prescriptions is usually the big headline that you get but like I said they're rather elitist when it comes to another public service; higher education. Public services have been cut quite drastically and even though the usual excuse is that it's a problem caused by Westminster there doesn't seem to be much support from Holyrood.

The real support actually comes from the members of parliament themselves. Our MP and MSP (Scottish parliament) are actively involved in local initiatives and start ups that rely on public donations. It's nice to see but it feels like a sticking plaster.

This is just my opinion but, regardless of their socioeconomic status, where the SNP seem to win against the other parties is on trust. When Sturgeon says that a richer Scotland would mean better funded public services then I would actually believe her, rather than scoff like I do when Johnson says his lies. I'd question how we're suddenly going to be better off, but I'd be confident that the money would actually be used to improve things rather than go in her back pocket.
Interesting - thanks! It sounds like the SNP isn't actually very different from Labour, but just havent burned their credit over the years.

Those engaged local MPs is a great thing btw. I hate First Past The Post with a passion, but my replacement wouldn't be the Dutch kind of proportional system, where every vote goes into national party buckets and those parties decide on their top candidates - who more often tend to be from central places. I'd prefer mixed-member proportional representation, where you continue to have truly local representation.
 
To be honest I didn't pay much attention to Andrew Marr when he worked for the BBC, but I have been enjoying his LBC contributions (and he clearly enjoys having the freedom to say what he thinks):



This was an excellent piece, and sums up the dilemma of the people inhabiting the fantasy Brexit world of unicorns.

Also the Sun describing potential and long overdue electoral reform and a move to PR as a dagger through the heart of the Tory party, shows how much they are panicking. I've always though unless you're a paid up Tory party member or devoted Tory supporter who'd vote for them at any election regardless of their policies or actions, you'd have to be pretty daft to want to keep FPTP. That includes ridiculous Labour MPs like John Spellar who have repeated the lie that PR was rejected in the 2011 referendum when it wasn't even on the ballot paper.
 
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The Port of Dover has declared a “critical incident”, blaming “woefully inadequate” French border control staffing for queues of up to four hours as the busiest summer getaway in at least eight years kicks off.

The Kent port apologised to travellers facing long waits to cross the Channel on what was also expected to be an extremely busy day for air, road and rail travel as most schools across England and Wales break up for the holidays.




The French have taken control of their borders - how dare they!
 
Every year it's the same story and every year they fail to explain what is the actual bottleneck.
 
Every year it's the same story and every year they fail to explain what is the actual bottleneck.

Well the issue today, and will be on-going, is the time it takes to process passengers due to the additional checks required as a result of the UK leaving the European Union. This takes further time, combine with more people going away on holiday than in the last two years and you have your bottleneck.
 
Well the issue today, and will be on-going, is the time it takes to process passengers due to the additional checks required as a result of the UK leaving the European Union. This takes further time, combine with more people going away on holiday than in the last two years and you have your bottleneck.

To be honest you didn't really help me here. The same issue existed in 2016 without the current new controls, it existed during the same week. The issue isn't about Brexit, though brexit doesn't help, it seems that there is an issue between Calais, Dover, France and the UK.

My unfiltered suspicion is that we are in presence of a group of feckwits who are failing to communicate with each others, if I'm not mistaken most customs controls are supposed to be done in Calais but that means that Dover are supposed to control flux and not send a ridiculous amount of people in a short period of time, they seemingly don't care because they are not the ones doing the checking/registering.
Now the reason I ask about the actual reason behind the bottleneck is because I would like to understand how it can be fixed on the french side, is it a case of more staff for that particular week or is it an limitation due to infrastructure, the latter is a lot more difficult to fix.
 
To be honest you didn't really help me here. The same issue existed in 2016 without the current new controls, it existed during the same week. The issue isn't about Brexit, though brexit doesn't help, it seems that there is an issue between Calais, Dover, France and the UK.

My unfiltered suspicion is that we are in presence of a group of feckwits who are failing to communicate with each others, if I'm not mistaken most customs controls are supposed to be done in Calais but that means that Dover are supposed to control flux and not send a ridiculous amount of people in a short period of time, they seemingly don't care because they are not the ones doing the checking/registering.
Now the reason I ask about the actual reason behind the bottleneck is because I would like to understand how it can be fixed on the french side, is it a case of more staff for that particular week or is it an limitation due to infrastructure, the latter is a lot more difficult to fix.

Before I moved to France 15years ago, I used to do that crossing several times a year and have done it now and again since but never had any lengthy delays. The French passport control was in Dover the last time I went in 2018, don't know if it's been moved back to Calais since.

Now every passport has to be stamped which was not the case since the 70s notwithstanding any additional checks and customs. At the end of this year the visa waiver scheme comes into operation, no doubt it's going to increase delays because people won't have done the necessary properly.
 
Before I moved to France 15years ago, I used to do that crossing several times a year and have done it now and again since but never had any lengthy delays. The French passport control was in Dover the last time I went in 2018, don't know if it's been moved back to Calais since.

Now every passport has to be stamped which was not the case since the 70s notwithstanding any additional checks and customs. At the end of this year the visa waiver scheme comes into operation, no doubt it's going to increase delays because people won't have done the necessary properly.

It predates 2018, that's why I'm doubting everyone involved.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-36873632
 
It predates 2018, that's why I'm doubting everyone involved.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-36873632

Yes but it was a very rare occurrence; In 2018 there were no queues anywhere, straight on straight off which was just about always the case. The roads into Dover are pretty awful after you get off the motorway/autoroute but they always have been.
The ports themselves have plenty of capacity and room.
 
A reminder that this 105 page document lists all the Brexit benefits which we are going to enjoy: https://assets.publishing.service.g...ment_data/file/1054643/benefits-of-brexit.pdf

Including:

The UK Border

Making the UK border the most effective border in the world.


We want to make the UK border the most effective in the world. We are working in partnership with industry and the devolved administrations to deliver the commitments of the UK 2025 Border Strategy. This will radically transform how the UK border facilitates trade, protects the resilience of supply chains and keeps the UK safe. We are investing over £1 billion over the next three years in transforming border technology and operations to accomplish this and we are supporting industry to invest, alongside the Government, by making innovation at the border easier.
 
Before I moved to France 15years ago, I used to do that crossing several times a year and have done it now and again since but never had any lengthy delays. The French passport control was in Dover the last time I went in 2018, don't know if it's been moved back to Calais since.

Now every passport has to be stamped which was not the case since the 70s notwithstanding any additional checks and customs. At the end of this year the visa waiver scheme comes into operation, no doubt it's going to increase delays because people won't have done the necessary properly.

What is the visa waiver scheme to which you refer? Does that mean British citizens will have to complete forms ahead of travelling like for the US?
 
What is the visa waiver scheme to which you refer? Does that mean British citizens will have to complete forms ahead of travelling like for the US?

Yes, they have to fill in a form,pay €7 to enter the Schengen area

The European Travel Information and Authorisation System (ETIAS) is a visa waiver program that is expected to come into effect by May 2023. The aim of ETIAS Europe is to provide a more secure journey to EU member countries as well as to strengthen the borders of the Schengen Area by pre-checking the data of travellers before they enter the zone.

This says May 2023 but it was supposed to come into force earlier
 
Yes, they have to fill in a form,pay €7 to enter the Schengen area

The European Travel Information and Authorisation System (ETIAS) is a visa waiver program that is expected to come into effect by May 2023. The aim of ETIAS Europe is to provide a more secure journey to EU member countries as well as to strengthen the borders of the Schengen Area by pre-checking the data of travellers before they enter the zone.

This says May 2023 but it was supposed to come into force earlier

Wonderful.I didn’t see “pre-fill a form and pay €7 to be allowed into France” on the side of that bus.
 
Wonderful.I didn’t see “pre-fill a form and pay €7 to be allowed into France” on the side of that bus.

It's more costly for EU citizens travelling to the UK who used to just need their ID cards. Now they need to buy passports to travel to the UK. At least the UK will have fewer foreign tourists which should please the Brexiters.
 
Doug Bannister, the chief executive of the Port of Dover, said on Saturday that extra checks needed since Brexit were causing longer transaction times at border control, after French politician Pierre-Henri Dumont blamed Brexit for the chaos seen on Friday.

Bannister told the Today programme:

We are operating in a post-Brexit environment which does mean that passports need to be checked, they need to be stamped and indeed the capable people that do man the booths, police aux frontieres, they’re doing their job that they need to do now.
He added that the port had “created more border capacity so that the overall throughput can be maintained”, and that their modelling had shown that there will be some “very peak busy days during the summer season” but “for the most part we should be able to cope with the traffic”.
Natalie Elphicke, the Conservative MP for Dover and Deal, has written a blistering comment for the Express in which she says the French owe the UK “a massive apology” for the disruption on the roads of her constituency, claiming French border control officers “failed to turn up for work”.


Labour’s Nick Thomas-Symonds has accused the government of being “absent” as another day of gridlocked roads around Dover begins.

The shadow secretary of state for international trade told Times Radio:

What we really do need to see is a government that is taking a grip of this situation.
The government has not been planning in advance. We were urging the government, for example, some months ago to negotiate a veterinary agreement to reduce the number of checks.
The government has not done that, has not put the planning in place and yet again, we have a crisis where the government is absent.

More moronic comments from British politicians on both sides.
It's because of Brexit you morons. You were warned. And it's going to get much much worse.
Starmer's solution to a vet agreement is going to solve almost nothing and doesn't stamp passports.
 
I'd love to think it was only people who'd voted for Brexit stuck in the queues but obviously it isn't.
This is what a hard border looks like. Its Brexit in action. Better get used to it.
 
I thought Dover already had lorry parks in place for these type of occasions?

I thought they had built one and were going to use Manston airfield near Ramsgate as another but they probably haven't got the staff to run them anyway.

How they see this as something good/growth is ridiculous.
 
I thought they had built one and were going to use Manston airfield near Ramsgate as another but they probably haven't got the staff to run them anyway.

How they see this as something good/growth is ridiculous.

Manston's getting turned back into a freight airport with a fast rail link so that's a non-starter.