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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

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So. Just to recap. The key government people responsible for delivering Brexit:
Dominic Cummings.
Boris Johnson.
Both compulsive liars. And both unfit for purpose.
Plus of course Nigel Farage.
Honestly. Now we can understand what has happened.
 
Switzerland ist doing a Schwexit as well - from a EU perspective it's good that we know where we stand now. Let's see what happens in the next 2-3 years when the treaty for engineering products ends (40% of that Switzerland are exporting to the EU).
 
UweBein said:
Switzerland ist doing a Schwexit as well - from a EU perspective it's good that we know where we stand now. Let's see what happens in the next 2-3 years when the treaty for engineering products ends (40% of that Switzerland are exporting to the EU).
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Switzerland had a referendum in 2014 to limit EU migration right? Which the government ignored, repeated last year and ended up with a resounding rejection of limiting it.

If only.....
 
But effectively they got deals which very much mirror the deals that BoJo would have wanted. It's good that these deals expire now. It's also fair from UK's perspective as well.
 
UweBein said:
But effectively they got deals which very much mirror the deals that BoJo would have wanted. It's good that these deals expire now. It's also fair from UK's perspective as well.
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Sorry, do you mean that they took that referendum to the EU and asked for changes to be made to their arrangements? What kinds of changes were made?
 
I don't really follow the points made. Switzerland abandoned negotiations for a new deal because they failed to find common grounds with the EU.
 
Buster15 said:
So. Just to recap. The key government people responsible for delivering Brexit:
Dominic Cummings.
Boris Johnson.
Both compulsive liars. And both unfit for purpose.
Plus of course Nigel Farage.
Honestly. Now we can understand what has happened.
Click to expand...
Don’t forget the susceptible people that voted for it
 
JPRouve said:
I don't really follow the points made. Switzerland abandoned negotiations for a new deal because they failed to find common grounds with the EU.
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My point was that Switz had a referendum in 2014 with a very narrow majority wanting to limit EU migration which, as far as I'm aware, the government ignored.

They then repeated a similar one last year which comprehensively went the other way.

I'm just bemoaning the fact that we couldn't do the same in the UK.

The stuff about the subsequent negotiations I'm totally ignorant about and wanted to learn more.
 
africanspur said:
My point was that Switz had a referendum in 2014 with a very narrow majority wanting to limit EU migration which, as far as I'm aware, the government ignored.

They then repeated a similar one last year which comprehensively went the other way.

I'm just bemoaning the fact that we couldn't do the same in the UK.

The stuff about the subsequent negotiations I'm totally ignorant about and wanted to learn more.
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It wasn't about you specifically but about the Switzerland-EU context. It's not a Schwexit because they are not in and it's actually the issue from the EU standpoint. Switzerland don't want to be in and don't want to formalize their relationship with the EU. The answer from the EU has been that they wouldn't negotiate new deals without it, which led to Switzerland reluctantly entering negotiations that were somewhat framed in 2018 and abandoned this week. So now the situation is that the EU, won't negotiate any new "market acces" deal with Switzerland as they warned before 2014.

In other words from the UK standpoint, what we are seeing here is something that the UK new before the referendum, they were part of the EU and knew what the EU position was regarding future "pick and choose" agreements, that's why I said that I don't follow the points made, this case is a pre-brexit situation not a post brexit one because the entire story and issues started before brexit and even before Cameron 2015 campaign and manifesto.
 
africanspur said:
Sorry, do you mean that they took that referendum to the EU and asked for changes to be made to their arrangements? What kinds of changes were made?
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The EU was aiming for a new general framework agreement. It would have meant that all changes in EU law will automatically apply to Switzerland as well. Switzerland ended that hope.
Since the EU does not want to negotiate every single change in the future they will not prolong the existing contracts in the future (e.g.from now on, medical devices from Switzerland need to be certified again in EU, which was not the case until now.) Step by step, Switzerland might lose access to the single market.
 
JPRouve said:
It wasn't about you specifically but about the Switzerland-EU context. It's not a Schwexit because they are not in and it's actually the issue from the EU standpoint. Switzerland don't want to be in and don't want to formalize their relationship with the EU. The answer from the EU has been that they wouldn't negotiate new deals without it, which led to Switzerland reluctantly entering negotiations that were somewhat framed in 2018 and abandoned this week. So now the situation is that the EU, won't negotiate any new "market acces" deal with Switzerland as they warned before 2014.

In other words from the UK standpoint, what we are seeing here is something that the UK new before the referendum, they were part of the EU and knew what the EU position was regarding future "pick and choose" agreements, that's why I said that I don't follow the points made, this case is a pre-brexit situation not a post brexit one because the entire story and issues started before brexit and even before Cameron 2015 campaign and manifesto.
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UweBein said:
The EU was aiming for a new general framework agreement. It would have meant that all changes in EU law will automatically apply to Switzerland as well. Switzerland ended that hope.
Since the EU does not want to negotiate every single change in the future they will not prolong the existing contracts in the future (e.g.from now on, medical devices from Switzerland need to be certified again in EU, which was not the case until now.) Step by step, Switzerland might lose access to the single market.
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Maybe you'll guys know this: are there any immediate implications of the breaking off of these negotiations? My understanding is that they were trying to replace a whole series of smaller deals with a umbrella agreement (as you say), but I suppose that means that individual deals are still in place until they expire? Will they be trying to extend individuals deals now, or is the EU expected to hold firm on this and insist that any extension be done through an umbrella agreement?
 
Cheimoon said:
Maybe you'll guys know this: are there any immediate implications of the breaking off of these negotiations? My understanding is that they were trying to replace a whole series of smaller deals with a umbrella agreement (as you say), but I suppose that means that individual deals are still in place until they expire? Will they be trying to extend individuals deals now, or is the EU expected to hold firm on this and insist that any extension be done through an umbrella agreement?
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The current deals remain, the ones that have termination dates will in theory not be renewed and the others could become outdated and if unfit for purpose one or both sides may decide to terminate them. From a theoretical standpoint the EU has decided a dozen of years ago that they wouldn't negotiate "à la carte" deals with anyone when it comes to EU's pillars, it's to some extent what killed the deals with the US, what almost killed CETA, the reason why Switzerland entered these negotiations in 2014 and what has been told to the UK from day one.
 
horsechoker said:
Brexit border agents being dicks again

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...emn-uk-border-officials-humiliating-treatment

The part about the Danish woman makes me think that these agents think Britain is some utopia that everyone is desperate to get into. If you have a good job in Denmark you're highly likely to be paid more and have more benefits than someone with the equivalent job in the UK.
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Having travelled to the USA a few times I must say that all seems rather tame compared to the interrogation by gun toting loons that seems to happen whenever going over the pond
 
JPRouve said:
The current deals remain, the ones that have termination dates will in theory not be renewed and the others could become outdated and if unfit for purpose one or both sides may decide to terminate them. From a theoretical standpoint the EU has decided a dozen of years ago that they wouldn't negotiate "à la carte" deals with anyone when it comes to EU's pillars, it's to some extent what killed the deals with the US, what almost killed CETA, the reason why Switzerland entered these negotiations in 2014 and what has been told to the UK from day one.
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OK, thanks!
 
To be fair UK border officials were right pricks before brexit too. I tried entering the UK using my US passport arriving from Germany and they tried turning me away because it didn't have any stamps for entering Germany. I pointed to my birthplace in said passport being Germany and told him they didn't have the proper stamps at hospital for leaving an American womb on German soil (I used German ID card to travel around Europe and only used the US passport to travel to the US and Canada previously, hence no stamps, but the ID had expired). The idea that Brits would turn back an American seemed so far fetched I hadn't even thought about it or about getting any information concerning visas.

He proceeded to take another look at my passport and said he didn't even know if it's fake or not, which seriously pissed me off (obviously knowing my own passport isn't fecking fake). So I told him they surely have FBI or Homeland Security or NSA or something at Stanstead and if he does believe the passport to be fake he should get them right now and let them handle me. At which point he just waved me through, no stamp, no entry, no nothing :lol:
 
horsechoker said:
Brexit border agents being dicks again

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...emn-uk-border-officials-humiliating-treatment

The part about the Danish woman makes me think that these agents think Britain is some utopia that everyone is desperate to get into. If you have a good job in Denmark you're highly likely to be paid more and have more benefits than someone with the equivalent job in the UK.
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Entirely agree with you. I have a good friend who owns a couple of resorts in the Maldives who was given a hard time. Before Covid of course.
The first thing they asked him was if he was looking for work in the UK. He said no as he works in the tourism industry in The Maldives. They didn't want to believe that he owns a couple of resorts. I told him too that if he wears jeans and polo shirt and sneakers they may not believe him. :D
They gave him a hard time. He told them that he is not crazy to live in the UK when he can lie on a sunny beach in the tropics everyday. In Europe he never faced these kinds of people at the border control.
 
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Historical day today, first British registered lorry I've seen this year heading south towards Toulouse/Spain, five months to the day since the Brexit dream was realised. Company name was Boyle, sounds a bit Irish.
Now more common than the lesser spotted dodo.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Historical day today, first British registered lorry I've seen this year heading south towards Toulouse/Spain, five months to the day since the Brexit dream was realised. Company name was Boyle, sounds a bit Irish.
Now more common than the lesser spotted dodo.
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Spare a thought for the driver who was in customs purgatory for 5 months.
 
My only concern is whether you brought marmite to your camping spot on the side of the highway?
 
Paul the Wolf said:
If you read the details it's ( a lot) worse than what the UK had as a member of the EU but wave a flag.
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As with many things that's subjective
I'd agree with you... but some other people will say its better than having no deal and no deal is better than the previous deal because sovereignty and brexit means brexit... as I say I don't agree but there is a signifigant proportion who will take that view
 
sun_tzu said:
As with many things that's subjective
I'd agree with you... but some other people will say its better than having no deal and no deal is better than the previous deal because sovereignty and brexit means brexit... as I say I don't agree but there is a signifigant proportion who will take that view
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The annoying part is that the UK government are still taking the electorate for a ride and until someone stops them it will get worse.
 
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Imagine being that clueless. :rolleyes:
 
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