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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

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africanspur said:
I don't think so. I've seen this particular line of thinking in real life, on the Spurs forum I used to post on before (which, populated mostly by middle aged, white Southerners had a rather different political slant than this one) and in politics. It isn't just a reaction to what's on here, though the debate has hardened opinion on here to the extent that most posters seem unable or unwilling to acknowledge much fault on 'their side'.

You can of course re the bolded but that isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the likes of vidic, some of the other people I know, Farage (how could I forget him!?), who genuinely seem to want not just the UK to leave but want to see the EU totally and utterly fail. Not to see European countries fail but to see the organisation of the EU fail. It seems to be a genuine hatred.

I can't imagine wanting something like that to fail unless they'd done something really horrific to my country or to me. So.....what is it?
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Fair post. I have a great deal of respect for the EIU, and what’s been achieved since it’s inception. I voted to leave - but quite frankly I don’t want to be associated with other people who voted to leave - that’s not a characteristic that defines me. I can, and do appreciate the value of the EU.

in the same way, I don’t believe in a greater power/ gods or similar - but I really do resent if anyone puts me in an atheist box.I don’t want to be associated with a group of people based off of a (often vaguely) similar belief.
 
Cheimoon said:
You asked the question thrice now, and @africanspur already indicated that this is being discussed in the AZ/EU thread - where people are calling on Von der Leyen to resign over this. (In case you care, I agreed over there.) You'd have noticed that if you actually cared. Hence why I say you're trolling.
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If this is true, I didn't know. Hadn't visited that thread. Doesn't it show how significant the error is, and how I understood it?
This would be proof I'm not trolling, and how serious I understand the error to be. Yes?
 
vidic blood & sand said:
If this is true, I didn't know. Hadn't visited that thread. Doesn't it show how significant the error is, and how I understood it?
This would be proof I'm not trolling, and how serious I understand the error to be. Yes?
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Not really, since you posted the same question three times, and a fourth time in response to me, while @africanspur had already told you to check the other thread after your first post on this.

Somehow, I'm getting the impression here that maybe you should call it quits for the day. Which you're now confirming in your response to @Regulus Arcturus Black.
 
If you want to thread ban me, I'm fine with this. This thread is a remainers hangout.
I'm going to say it a fifth time, The EU climbed down.
I'm still waiting for a significant response to this?

We're talking about a major embarrassing world political u-turn. What caused such a stupid decision to act, and reverse that action?

Desperation?
 
vidic blood & sand said:
If you want to thread ban me, I'm fine with this. This thread is a remainers hangout.
I'm going to say it a fifth time, The EU climbed down.
I'm still waiting for a significant response to this?

We're talking about a major embarrassing world political u-turn. What caused such a stupid decision to act, and reverse that action?

Desperation?
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This is the Brexit thread. Feel free to discuss this further in the AZ/EU thread, where this discussion is taking place, and you'll find the responses you're looking for - as you've also been told five times by now.
 
Ok last chance, and if I'm still regarded as a troll, I'll leave this thread for good.
The EU made a major embarrassing political decision which was reversed within a few hours. What is the significance of this?

Desperation?
 
vidic blood & sand said:
Not yet.
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Honestly mate, I've no idea what you're trying to achieve here. Everyone has acknowledged the EU fecked up today, for reasons we don't yet understand. Not sure what you're trying to achieve with this line of posting but it does derail discussions. Maybe chill till more info comes out?
 
worldgonemad said:
Honestly mate, I've no idea what you're trying to achieve here. Everyone has acknowledged the EU fecked up today, for reasons we don't yet understand. Not sure what you're trying to achieve with this line of posting but it does derail discussions. Maybe chill till more info comes out?
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vidic blood & sand said:
Ok last chance, and if I'm still regarded as a troll, I'll leave this thread for good.
The EU made a major embarrassing political decision which was reversed within a few hours. What is the significance of this?

Desperation?
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Now, this could be something worth discussing for many reasons...

I wonder if the pressure regarding vaccine rollout numbers in the largest EU states is causing unrest, putting pressure on the leaders to be seen to act ( in this case, maybe prematurely and heavy handedly) it will be interesting to see who was involved in the discussion prior to article 16 being invoked, and equally interesting to see who was involved in putting pressure on to revoke it so quickly
 
worldgonemad said:
Honestly mate, I've no idea what you're trying to achieve here. Everyone has acknowledged the EU fecked up today, for reasons we don't yet understand. Not sure what you're trying to achieve with this line of posting but it does derail discussions. Maybe chill till more info comes out?
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I think this bolded bit is key here. They've been on an upwards escalation trajectory all week, leading to today's debacle. Leadership questions need to be asked, and I'm looking forward to finding out tomorrow how this could've happened.
 
Cheimoon said:
I think this bolded bit is key here. They've been on an upwards escalation trajectory all week, leading to today's debacle. Leadership questions need to be asked, and I'm looking forward to finding out tomorrow how this could've happened.
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Yeah you are right, and I think lots of countries are in a tricky period and impatient to be doing (and seen to be doing the right thing) it's been a long year and wave after wave and lockdown after lockdown have not yet beaten this thing.
The whole of Europe has taken a kicking, and in my opinion, none in Europe have come out well. The figures in the UK, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal and France are staying stubbornly high and there are signs that countries are acting in own best interests at the cost of others.
Macron is an interesting one though, and he seems fidgety and the extra restrictions he's put out tonight regarding travel and curfews are almost a batten down the hatches response which is unlikely to go down well with the French
 
vidic blood & sand said:
Ok last chance, and if I'm still regarded as a troll, I'll leave this thread for good.
The EU made a major embarrassing political decision which was reversed within a few hours. What is the significance of this?

Desperation?
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They’re learning from the UK government about U turns I guess? :D
 
I see how the Brexiteers have now come out in force on social media to using this incident as an example stating it’s good we left claiming some kind of win casually ignoring all the Governments mistakes and how Brexit is still a clusterfeck.
 
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TheGame said:
I see how the Brexiteers have now come out in force on social media to using this incident as an example stating it’s good we left claiming some kind of win casually ignoring all the Governments mistakes and how Brexit is still a clusterfeck.
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As we saw in this very thread.
 
TheGame said:
I see how the Brexiteers have now come out in force on social media to using this incident as an example stating it’s good we left claiming some kind of win casually ignoring all the Governments mistakes and how Brexit is still a clusterfeck.
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They've had feck all in the last 4 and a half years. Now their enemy has actually shown some incompetence and it's like Christmas to them.
 
Brexiters are so desperate for straws to clutch on, since they are realising Brexit is a clusterfeck with no redemption, they are ignoring all the disasters it is causing and pointing at one mistake made by the EU and admitted by the EU. Nevemind the fact that UK has made multiple mistakes and never admitted it.
 
horsechoker said:
They've had feck all in the last 4 and a half years. Now their enemy has actually shown some incompetence and it's like Christmas to them.
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It truly fecking is. So desperate for any win, the idiots are all out in force twisting arguments to suit their narrative. Here is just a couple of examples:





So we are going to forget we were late with Covid response, late with PPE (EU invited us to join their scheme but we refused), over 100,000 dead. Makes me fecking sick.:mad:

Also you can imagine if Johnson had done this, you can imagine Brexiteers applauding him and criticising the EU for not sharing the vaccine. The sheer hypocrisy and a number of idiots are bought by it.
 
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vidic blood & sand said:
Ok last chance, and if I'm still regarded as a troll, I'll leave this thread for good.
The EU made a major embarrassing political decision which was reversed within a few hours. What is the significance of this?

Desperation?
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You’d bloody hope the EU are desperate to save the lives of as many as possible.

“Look at those embarrassing idiots, showing desperation to save lives” isn’t quite the amazing victory you seem to think it is.

The UK government has on multiple occasions made a major embarrassing political decision which was reversed due to Marcus fecking Rashford ffs. What is the significance of this?
 
africanspur said:
To be honest, I don't find it that funny to see the EU descend into the same nonsensical political football playing the Tories have been engaging in for the past few years and it isn't good news for the UK if that is the kind of political discourse both sides will engage in in any kind of regular way from now on.

Let's hope it was a one off bad decision made in the heat of the moment by people under incredible pressure and that they row it back before we have the chance to respond in kind.
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Totally agree but sadly the stupid action of the EU has let the genie out of the bottle with regards to the Article 16. Given the difficulties NI is facing over essential supplies I am sure the DUP will attempt to pressurise the government to using Article 16 itself on the basis of ‘sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander’.
 
TheGame said:
It truly fecking is. So desperate for any win, the idiots are all out in force twisting arguments to suit their narrative. Here is just a couple of examples:





So we are going to forget we were late with Covid response, late with PPE (EU invited us to join their scheme but we refused), over 100,000 dead. Makes me fecking sick.:mad:

Also you can imagine if Johnson had done this, you can imagine Brexiteers applauding him and criticising the EU for not sharing the vaccine. The sheer hypocrisy and a number of idiots are bought by it.
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And what has any of that to do with, in this instance, the EU having well and truly fecked up both with their late vaccine procurement and their decision to invoke article 16 in Ireland. Trump and Johnson combined could’nt have done a better job had they been in charge of the EU. Even worse is that the imbecilic leader Macron pontificates that the AZ vaccine is only 8% effective.

Attempting to absolve the EU by pointing out how the Tories have made a dogs dinner of the U.K. response to the virus is silly as in this instance the stupidity lies squarely on the shoulders of the EU
 
Leavers ******* over their Union Jacks while yet again another 1,245 people died yesterday. Winning.
 
Virgil said:
And what has any of that to do with, in this instance, the EU having well and truly fecked up both with their late vaccine procurement and their decision to invoke article 16 in Ireland. Trump and Johnson combined could’nt have done a better job had they been in charge of the EU. Even worse is that the imbecilic leader Macron pontificates that the AZ vaccine is only 8% effective.

Attempting to absolve the EU by pointing out how the Tories have made a dogs dinner of the U.K. response to the virus is silly as in this instance the stupidity lies squarely on the shoulders of the EU
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Who the hell is trying to absolve the EU of anything? They have fecked up here. What we are pointing out is the sheer hypocrisy of everyone keeping their trap shut while the Government broke international law, cocked up the pandemic response amongst a whole load of other errors yet no one had a word to say about it. Also the sheer cheek of Brexiteers to make this like some win for Brexit where it is not. That’s the shite we are pointing out.
 
Virgil said:
Totally agree but sadly the stupid action of the EU has let the genie out of the bottle with regards to the Article 16. Given the difficulties NI is facing over essential supplies I am sure the DUP will attempt to pressurise the government to using Article 16 itself on the basis of ‘sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander’.
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They have to an extent for sure.

I realised I wasn't super clear on what I actually meant. Through the negotiations, our politicians (and media) have used inflammatory language towards the EU, used all kinds of brinkmanship and even threatened to break international law.

Now, while I haven't taken the EU position at face value through the negotiations always like some in here, I feel they have been more professional throughout. The EU itself, not individual member state politicians.

What we've seen in the last few weeks is that, despite what some Brexiteers always said, we clearly depend far more on the mainland than vica versa, especially for supplies, at least for now.

Entering into a tit for tat dispute with a larger bloc, whether that be the USA, EU or China, is not a good thing at all. Particularly for the smaller party in that dispute.
 
TheGame said:
It truly fecking is. So desperate for any win, the idiots are all out in force twisting arguments to suit their narrative. Here is just a couple of examples:
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Nationalists feigning moral outrage that states are are acting self serving.. I bet they'd be the first to object if AZ were to balance their delivery numbers between the UK and EU.
 
africanspur said:
They have to an extent for sure.

I realised I wasn't super clear on what I actually meant. Through the negotiations, our politicians (and media) have used inflammatory language towards the EU, used all kinds of brinkmanship and even threatened to break international law.

Now, while I haven't taken the EU position at face value through the negotiations always like some in here, I feel they have been more professional throughout. The EU itself, not individual member state politicians.

What we've seen in the last few weeks is that, despite what some Brexiteers always said, we clearly depend far more on the mainland than vica versa, especially for supplies, at least for now.

Entering into a tit for tat dispute with a larger bloc, whether that be the USA, EU or China, is not a good thing at all. Particularly for the smaller party in that dispute.
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Yes stupidly we have but the EU with its action has inadvertently presented the U.K. with an open goal. The other downside is that it has provided the Brexiteers with an almost ‘I told you so’ moment particularly when the No Hard Border was an EU red line. Just see the bounce the Tories get from this debacle.

IMHO the action of the EU in the last 24 hours mirrors the action of UKIP and establishment Brexiteers. You have a problem that’s of your own making then deflect it by blaming it on another entity so it’s not your fault. The ills of the U.K. were all due to the bad old EU. The stupidity in delaying vaccine procurement because of the decision to only buy it cheaply is not the EUs fault its all down to that bad old U.K. and it’s puppet AZ. Different hymn but same hymnsheet. As I said before all politicians are tarred with the same brush but every time we fall for it.
 
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Virgil said:
Yes stupidly we have but the EU with its action has inadvertently presented the U.K. with an open goal. The other downside is that it has provided the Brexiteers with an almost ‘I told you so’ moment particularly when the No Hard Border was an EU red line. Just see the bounce the Tories get from this debacle.
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What open goal is that?
 
worldgonemad said:
Yeah you are right, and I think lots of countries are in a tricky period and impatient to be doing (and seen to be doing the right thing) it's been a long year and wave after wave and lockdown after lockdown have not yet beaten this thing.
The whole of Europe has taken a kicking, and in my opinion, none in Europe have come out well. The figures in the UK, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal and France are staying stubbornly high and there are signs that countries are acting in own best interests at the cost of others.
Macron is an interesting one though, and he seems fidgety and the extra restrictions he's put out tonight regarding travel and curfews are almost a batten down the hatches response which is unlikely to go down well with the French
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The restrictions are perfectly fine for the vast majority because the point is to avoid a third lockdown.
 
Kentonio said:
If you want to sucker someone into thinking your latest dumb/outrageous post is actually serious, you add a follow up in the same post but in white text. If you read something that makes you want to 'RARRR WTF?!?!' just drag select over the whole post first just to check if someone is yanking your chain.
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People actually do that?
Anyway, thanks for explaining as this is the first time someone has made clear (no pun intended) what's involved.
And no need for you to check here. I haven't mastered changing text colour yet. Have a good weekend.
 
I've posted a couple of times in this thread and raised a few hackles but I haven't mentioned Brexit and I'm not motivated to post by Brexit.

My issue is with sanctimonious hypocrisy within the EU. It's hard to reconcile how Ursula can emphatically say publicly that no side deals will be done, only for Germany to announce theirs two hours later and separately Ireland to be told that they can't make such a deal for their country.

Witold Waszczykowski, the former foreign minister of Poland, who is an MEP accused Germany of ignoring the rules that applied to the rest of the EU.

It does smack of one rule for some (one?) and a different rule for others (the rest?). It's not the first time such double standards have been displayed and my guess is it won't be the last.

My view on this firmed up when last night I read this article on the Reuters website.

Taiwan has sought Germany’s help in securing COVID-19 vaccines, Economy Minister Wang Mei-hua said on Thursday, after Berlin asked for the island’s assistance in easing a shortage of automobile semiconductor chips.

Wang told reporters she made the request at a meeting with Germany’s de facto ambassador in Taipei, who handed her a letter seeking help to resolve the shortage, which is hampering the European nation’s fledgling economic recovery from the pandemic.

At their meeting on Wednesday, Wang said, she told the head of the German mission in Taipei that she hoped Germany could “assist Taiwan in obtaining vaccines within the feasible range”.

Germany’s Economy Ministry declined comment.

In the letter, German Economy Minister Peter Altmaier asked Wang to help persuade manufacturers in Taiwan, home to the world’s largest contract chipmaker and one of Germany’s main suppliers, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co Ltd (TSMC), to ease the chip shortage.

Wang met senior chip executives this week who pledged to help tackle the problem.

Late last month, Taiwan said it had agreed to buy almost 20 million doses of COVID-19 vaccine, including 10 million from AstraZeneca Plc, with the first to start arriving from March.

Another 4.76 million are expected to come from global vaccine programme COVAX, but the government has given no details of which company may supply the rest.

Pfizer Inc has jointly developed with Germany’s BioNTech SE one of the main vaccines which is now being rolled out worldwide.

Countries are battling vaccine shortages worldwide. Germany’s health minister said on Thursday he expected the current shortage to persist into April.

Taiwan has kept the pandemic well under control thanks to early and effective prevention, with 896 cases, including seven deaths. Most the infections have been imported from abroad and only 79 people are now in hospital.

If I was in Italy which has suffered over 85000 deaths, I wouldn't be impressed if an EU ally, loosely put, decided that its car industry was more important than helping another EU member with a death count 12,000 times greater than Taiwan's (according to the Reuters article).

I accept my frustration is based on press coverage and that's not always accurate but let's assume it is. These conflicting examples of national attitude, definition of co-responsibility, mutual respect, collective responsibility etc etc don't add up to a pretty picture and regardless of Brexit, they do tell a story about how the EU conducts and presents itself as a bloc and as individual member states.

And that's without the NI border farago.
 
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