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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

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Steven Seagull said:
few people in this thread and other related threads, who for 5 years couldn’t let a gnats fart go by if it painted the EU in a bad light without responding. Suddenly all out for dinner on Friday night it seems
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I'm here , looking at French news, nothing about the NI issue so will wait until have the full story.
EU have approved the AZ vaccine, France have shut non-food stores over 20000m2 and have shut their borders from tomorrow night to non-EU travellers without exception.

Although I do see the usual suspects are out in force tonight, making a rare appearance, quelle surprise!
Whatever the whole story is , it seems a bit rich coming from those advocating breaking International law for the past 4 years.
 
In the end of the day the EU screwed up with the vaccine process. If they could at least admit this and approach the UK with an extended olive branch, I'm sure we could work together for an amicable outcome.
The UK could use this situation to iron out some of the trade export/import issues we've been experiencing lately. However, if the EU wants to play hardball, they'll lose all the people in the UK who amazingly still have high regard for the corrupt Brussels institution.
Not only that, but other EU countries will not be impressed by what they're seeing.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
In the end of the day the EU screwed up with the vaccine process. If they could at least admit this and approach the UK with an extended olive branch, I'm sure we could work together for an amicable outcome.
The UK could use this situation to iron out some of the trade export/import issues we've been experiencing lately. However, if the EU wants to play hardball, they'll lose all the people in the UK who amazingly still have high regard for the corrupt Brussels institution.
Not only that, but other EU countries will not be impressed by what they're seeing.
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Eh?
 
vidic blood & sand said:
In the end of the day the EU screwed up with the vaccine process. If they could at least admit this and approach the UK with an extended olive branch, I'm sure we could work together for an amicable outcome.
The UK could use this situation to iron out some of the trade export/import issues we've been experiencing lately. However, if the EU wants to play hardball, they'll lose all the people in the UK who amazingly still have high regard for the corrupt Brussels institution.
Not only that, but other EU countries will not be impressed by what they're seeing.
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No idea why you think the EU would talk to the UK on this. Their beef is with AZ. The UK is not involved in the discussion, more like an innocent bystander because of the location of AZ's production facilities. I have also yet to see a single comment from UK politicians on the matter. (Apart from the NI borders thing, but that has already been revoked and isn't at the core of the issue.)
 
Guys can you see how desperate the EU is, and what they're prepared to do in a panic situation?
Is this really an EU you can trust?

Seriously?
 
Cheimoon said:
No idea why you think the EU would talk to the UK on this. Their beef is with AZ. The UK is not involved in the discussion, more like an innocent bystander because of the location of AZ's production facilities. I have also yet to see a single comment from UK politicians on the matter. (Apart from the NI borders thing, but that has already been revoked and isn't at the core of the issue.)
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What the hell are you talking about? This gets crazier by the moment!
 
It'll be interesting to see the analysis why such drastic measures were taken only to be reversed mere hours later. I've seen a Reuters article that suggested a paper was published mistakenly, which perhaps seems plausible, given that even the Irish seemed to be surprised by this. Either way von der Leyen has to answer some questions.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
What the hell are you talking about? This gets crazier by the moment!
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That's what I was thinking when I was reading your post. You said this: 'In the end of the day the EU screwed up with the vaccine process. If they could at least admit this and approach the UK with an extended olive branch, I'm sure we could work together for an amicable outcome.' So then, what would the UK have to offer to the EU here?
 
Plymouth Red said:
Correct. Unless, of course, someone sent me instructions on how to use it, but typed in white. Is it a sort of Top Reds ninja trick that only a few posters like Reggie can use?
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If you want to sucker someone into thinking your latest dumb/outrageous post is actually serious, you add a follow up in the same post but in white text. If you read something that makes you want to 'RARRR WTF?!?!' just drag select over the whole post first just to check if someone is yanking your chain.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
Guys can you see how desperate the EU is, and what they're prepared to do in a panic situation?
Is this really an EU you can trust?

Seriously?
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Serious question for a second. Why do you hate the EU as an organisation so much?

I think @Maticmaker made a good point that where 'Remain' lost in the referendum was not the hardcore ideological Brexiteers but probably the people who were left behind who felt little to lose from the vote. Which I think it probably right.

But for JRM, Baker and seemingly you, it wasn't just about leaving the EU and making 'our own way'. It was about a seemingly visceral hatred of it as an organisation and a desire to see it crash and burn, even with us out of it. Some people would be willing to shoulder a large economic cost or the breakup of the union, at all costs, because of the hatred vs the EU.

Why?
 
africanspur said:
Serious question for a second. Why do you hate the EU as an organisation so much?
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Because it's a political union.

I think @Maticmaker made a good point that where 'Remain' lost in the referendum was not the hardcore ideological Brexiteers but probably the people who were left behind who felt little to lose from the vote. Which I think it probably right.

But for JRM, Baker and seemingly you, it wasn't just about leaving the EU and making 'our own way'. It was about a seemingly visceral hatred of it as an organisation and a desire to see it crash and burn, even with us out of it. Some people would be willing to shoulder a large economic cost or the breakup of the union, at all costs, because of the hatred vs the EU.

Why?
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Because it's a political union.
 
africanspur said:
Serious question for a second. Why do you hate the EU as an organisation so much?

I think @Maticmaker made a good point that where 'Remain' lost in the referendum was not the hardcore ideological Brexiteers but probably the people who were left behind who felt little to lose from the vote. Which I think it probably right.

But for JRM, Baker and seemingly you, it wasn't just about leaving the EU and making 'our own way'. It was about a seemingly visceral hatred of it as an organisation and a desire to see it crash and burn, even with us out of it. Some people would be willing to shoulder a large economic cost or the breakup of the union, at all costs, because of the hatred vs the EU.

Why?
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Good question that.

I’ve lived in 5 EU countries and moving has been seamless, the lack of borders is the closest we’ve managed to real freedom in 10,000 years of civilisation from these silly lines drawn on maps 100’s of years ago. That why I love it, despite the imperfections.

So why the vicious hate? I’m interested to know.
 
africanspur said:
Serious question for a second. Why do you hate the EU as an organisation so much?

I think @Maticmaker made a good point that where 'Remain' lost in the referendum was not the hardcore ideological Brexiteers but probably the people who were left behind who felt little to lose from the vote. Which I think it probably right.

But for JRM, Baker and seemingly you, it wasn't just about leaving the EU and making 'our own way'. It was about a seemingly visceral hatred of it as an organisation and a desire to see it crash and burn, even with us out of it. Some people would be willing to shoulder a large economic cost or the breakup of the union, at all costs, because of the hatred vs the EU.

Why?
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it’s probably more of a reaction to this environment.

this forum is very pro EU - and nothing wrong with that, but it therefore prompts a greater reaction from the other side. You can of course be ‘leave’ and still respect the EU, but believe the current action is not the right path to take...
 
vidic blood & sand said:
Um, does anyone actually acknowledge a historic EU climbdown here?
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Um....yes? Are you reading this and the other thread?

I've mentioned quite a few times on this board (including today) about how differently people would react to the same thing done by the EU/UK sides but for this particular occasion, the reaction has been almost universally critical of the EU, even by those who are amongst its biggest defenders on here.

They made a fecking stupid decision and somehow made the Tories look like the grown ups in the room, which is quite an achievement. They have thankfully noted their mistake (likely under severe pressure from the national capitals, especially Dublin) before it could escalate any further.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
it’s probably more of a reaction to this environment.

this forum is very pro EU - and nothing wrong with that, but it therefore prompts a greater reaction from the other side. You can of course be ‘leave’ and still respect the EU, but believe the current action is not the right path to take...
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Nar, it’s because huge swathes of media, many in the current government and Nige have made it an “Us v Them” fight, and people like vidic here see a fight as hating the other and wanting it destroyed.
It has nothing to do with redcafe.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
it’s probably more of a reaction to this environment.

this forum is very pro EU - and nothing wrong with that, but it therefore prompts a greater reaction from the other side. You can of course be ‘leave’ and still respect the EU, but believe the current action is not the right path to take...
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I don't think so. I've seen this particular line of thinking in real life, on the Spurs forum I used to post on before (which, populated mostly by middle aged, white Southerners had a rather different political slant than this one) and in politics. It isn't just a reaction to what's on here, though the debate has hardened opinion on here to the extent that most posters seem unable or unwilling to acknowledge much fault on 'their side'.

You can of course re the bolded but that isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the likes of vidic, some of the other people I know, Farage (how could I forget him!?), who genuinely seem to want not just the UK to leave but want to see the EU totally and utterly fail. Not to see European countries fail but to see the organisation of the EU fail. It seems to be a genuine hatred.

I can't imagine wanting something like that to fail unless they'd done something really horrific to my country or to me. So.....what is it?
 
vidic blood & sand said:
The UK did not sign up to a political union, and didn't vote for it in 1975. It was imposed on us.
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You haven't read the Treaty of Rome dated 1957 ,which was posted earlier , I voted for it in 1975 , brilliant.
If the UK wanted to leave, fine, but don't say I didn't warn you of the consequences.

The other difference is the UK could leave the EU when they wanted after triggering A50, if Scotland want to leave they can't unless Westminster say so. Prisoners.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
Oh dear you just killed every democratic argument on Redcafe.
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I'll ask again by the way how it affected your day to day life in your opinion. You say you want debate and mock people for this being a remain echo chamber yet you seem more interested in asking rhetorical questions and engaging in silly insults rather than actually engaging in any discussion.
 
Cheimoon said:
You're just trolling at this point: you're not responding to actual criticism, just saying controversial stuff where you think you can score your points.
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Amazing. Do you actually understand the significance of the climbdown?
Instead of accusing me of trolling, what does the climbdown mean?
 
vidic blood & sand said:
Amazing. Do you actually understand the significance of the climbdown?
Instead of accusing me of trolling, what does the climbdown mean?
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You asked the question thrice now, and @africanspur already indicated that this is being discussed in the AZ/EU thread - where people are calling on Von der Leyen to resign over this. (In case you care, I agreed over there.) You'd have noticed that if you actually cared. Hence why I say you're trolling.
 
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