Michael Gove also said alot of nice words about Boris during the entire campaign only to backstab him soon afterwards. Does anyone actually believe Michael Gove anymore?
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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Michael Gove also said alot of nice words about Boris during the entire campaign only to backstab him soon afterwards. Does anyone actually believe Michael Gove anymore?
I wouldn't mind the delay if it was clear it was being done to formulate some exact details regarding Brexit or technicalities here and there as the new PM and cabinet settles in.
The problem though is that the delay is due to the fact that the government just do not know what Brexit is going to be, and perhaps more importantly don't know what they want Brexit to be. Their rough vision seems to be that they'd like to remain in the single market without free movement...but we've pretty much been told that this isn't happening and that we'll have to suck it up.
As a result of that, the eventual consequences will likely not be partaken in the best interests of Britain, but will be taken through a series of maneuvers and plots within the Tory party to keep them settled and happy as a whole. Like the referendum, this will be settled through the ideological divisions of a party.
The problem though is that the delay is due to the fact that the government just do not know what Brexit is going to be, and perhaps more importantly don't know what they want Brexit to be. Their rough vision seems to be that they'd like to remain in the single market without free movement...but we've pretty much been told that this isn't happening and that we'll have to suck it up.
As a result of that, the eventual consequences will likely not be partaken in the best interests of Britain, but will be taken through a series of maneuvers and plots within the Tory party to keep them settled and happy as a whole. Like the referendum, this will be settled through the ideological divisions of a party.
Anyone who thought article 50 was going to be triggered immediately really just got caught up in all the fan fare.
It was obvious and said by many here that it would be a long and protracted process. The campaign and the process are two very different things.
It was obvious and said by many here that it would be a long and protracted process. The campaign and the process are two very different things.
The Brexiters said that the EU would cave in to the UK demands else the British wont drink Italian wine and buy German cars anymore. They made the deal look quite easy and straightforward.
Irrespective of when Article 50 was expected to be triggered, I struggle to see what we're waiting for if we have a concrete plan as to how we want Brexit to go. The fact is we don't though, and that should concern everyone, be it a Leave or Remain supporter.
I agree. It seems to be that even the Leavers didn't believed/wanted Brexit to happen. Possibly they wanted Cameron weakened and a panicked EU to cave in to their demands.
Well we had to form a new goverment, i doubt such a concrete plan is close to being formed yet. Its far too complicated an issue to rush.
The brexit campaign was just a preamble to convince voters there was no actual plan.
So it appears Brexit had no timeframe planned either. Is it guess the year?
Or the government now hope the old people who voted for Brexit will have kicked the bucket by the time they activate Article 50, the lesser intelligent ones think they already have left the EU (a poll would be interesting as to how many Brexiteers think the UK have left) and everyone else would have got so fed up with it, they couldn't care any more and it will all just fizzle out.
Or the government now hope the old people who voted for Brexit will have kicked the bucket by the time they activate Article 50, the lesser intelligent ones think they already have left the EU (a poll would be interesting as to how many Brexiteers think the UK have left) and everyone else would have got so fed up with it, they couldn't care any more and it will all just fizzle out.
I think its more the case of waiting for the EU to get weaker to launch its final blow
So 2075 it is
I don't think the governments inside the EU have a concrete plan for what they want from the UK post brexit and they don't agree when we should trigger it either.
If your opponent wants something, frustrate him, delay him, even if you think it doesn't matter and you couldn't care less. He wants it and that enough of a reason to deny him. If the EU bureaucrats want us to trigger article 50 straight away then delay it until it becomes necessary.
Sarkozy plans to offer Britain a new treaty according to this :: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...new-eu-treaty-and-a-chance-to-say-no-to-brex/
I think the idea that we have no plan at all after three months to work on it is rather daft, yet we probably need at least three strategies worked out before we even enter talks. An opening offer (which involves the greatest continuance of existing EU cooperation/regs), our counter proposal in the even that flat out refuse, and a hard Brexit option.
So i expect that we shall see some movement in the opening weeks of 2017.
Knowing Sarkozy, he has absolutely nothing. Juppé on the other hand probably has a clear position and a clear plan.
He won a referendum making up most of his "facts" so nothing surprises me
I'm not sure they care that much - they presumably want whatever is the least change for them. We've been explicitly told that we're not getting in the single market without free movement. Playing this extended game of chicken isn't going to change anything.
Yeah be nice to know this as well.
The amount of wishful thinking in this thread!
David Cameron didn't allow any contingency planning for a Leave outcome, so the new government had to start from scratch. The Leavers didn't have a detailed plan with all i's dotted and t's crossed. It's a massively complicated issue.
In general terms they probably have a good idea where they want to go, but there's no detail on the map. And there are warlike tribes between them and their destination whose behaviour is unpredictable. The Eurocrats will be lying in ambush somewhere along the way. Armed with curare tipped darts and pieces of paper. So it makes sense to proceed cautiously.
David Cameron didn't allow any contingency planning for a Leave outcome, so the new government had to start from scratch. The Leavers didn't have a detailed plan with all i's dotted and t's crossed. It's a massively complicated issue.
In general terms they probably have a good idea where they want to go, but there's no detail on the map. And there are warlike tribes between them and their destination whose behaviour is unpredictable. The Eurocrats will be lying in ambush somewhere along the way. Armed with curare tipped darts and pieces of paper. So it makes sense to proceed cautiously.
Brexit first series:
We have no idea what we're going to do
We have no idea why we're doing it
We have no idea when we're going to do it
We had no idea so many people could be so gullible
All leading players have left after the first series except one who has taken a new role.
Tune into the next episode of Brexit(The Farce) starring Davis and Boris, release date to be confirmed sometime this century
We have no idea what we're going to do
We have no idea why we're doing it
We have no idea when we're going to do it
We had no idea so many people could be so gullible
All leading players have left after the first series except one who has taken a new role.
Tune into the next episode of Brexit(The Farce) starring Davis and Boris, release date to be confirmed sometime this century
Then be prepared to be absolutely reemed during negotiations with this frustrated foe.
Thank God for this, for a minute I thought nobody was running the country and steering us through Brexit:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/sep/29/theresa-may-meeting-rupert-murdoch-times-sun
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/sep/29/theresa-may-meeting-rupert-murdoch-times-sun
Fecking hate that man.
Good job the likes of Owen Paterson and IDS have been obsessed with Europe for years and thus can now enact their genius-level strategy for exiting:
I think the plan is pretty clear and has been formulated multiple times: if you want to stay in the single market, you have to accept freedom of movement as well. There is absolutely no reason for anyone in the EU to do anything, because the status quo doesn't hurt and I bet a lot of people do find the mess the UK gouvernment is in quite amusing.
From the comments being made by the various factions about when they want article 50 triggered, I don't think it is clear at all.
I don't think the UK govt can accept free movement in the negotiation even if they wanted to the referendum pretty much ruled that out.
If the UK gives up on tariff free access to the single market, what tariffs would the EU like to place on UK goods and services given reciprocal measures will apply?
The eu want the uk within the eu so this status quo benefits them. I wonder how the tories can face the electorate if brexit means nothing but huff and puff though
Once the uk activates article 50 then the eu very existence will rely on the uk ending much worse off than it is now. All sort of tariffs and obstacles will be applied both at eu and wto level
You might be correct but I think that is a mistake. The starting position should be an acceptance that we can't keep free access given we can't accept free movement. Lets negotiate a trade deal on its own terms like we do with everyone else on the planet. Otherwise we are going to run into problems with Brexit voters about UK sovereignty.
Personally I don't care about it that much but Brexiteers seemed pretty hot on controlling our own borders so accepting free movement I think is politically impossible.
I doubt that the eu will even consider trade deal talks up to until article 50 is activated
On your first post,
We have time yet before triggering becomes necessary we should take as much time as we have available.
On this second post.
Let's find out what the EU proposition is and whether given the damage it is going to cause industries inside the member states whether those states will agree the position.
I can imagine the EU bureaucrats want all sorts of tariffs but they don't control that much in the end the power is with the members states.
I am talking about after we trigger A50. In the fulness of time, when we are ready.
A) The Brexiteers are become impatient
B) the eu is not the one who wants a change in the deal. The uk is. Brussels is waiting for the uk to come up with their ideas. However no negotiations will start prior the activation of article 50
After that the eu may be willing to make a trade deal. However trade deals with the eu are often complex and painfully slow even with eu allies let alone the uk
I for one am glad to see that you are all still alive and that the sun still rises in the UK. Judging by some comments in here I would half expect you guys to be a third world country by now.
Nah, I know. Just a way of expressing my fascination over people actually believing that the EU would attempt to halt and exclude the second largest economy and second largest country in Europe from it's markets.
If minnows like Norway, Switzerland and Iceland can get trade deals, the UK sure as feck can.
Be calm, Ingurlishmen. By 2025 when EU has taken over national budgets of it's membership countries, plus control over all national banks then you will be thankfull for leaving.
Those countries accept eu law and freedom of movement. Countries like Iceland do not have unrestricted access to the single market (what the U.K. Want). I doubt this deal would satisfy the U.K.needs
http://icelandreview.com/news/2015/09/18/new-iceland-eu-trade-deal-agreed
Also note that Much bigger economies than the uk had been trying and had failed to get a firm foothold in the single market. Countries who had always been allies to Europe and had never turned their back to it.
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No point of a discussion with this one. When all else fails, he will tell you how algeria messes around with malta and that is how it will be between UK and the EU.
We have denied EU law when it comes to:
- Fishery
- Oil and gas
- Subsidizing of industry
- Subsidizing of agriculture
- Taxation of foreign produce and products
- The rights to benefits for EU citizens who has emigrated from Norway
- Border control
- A shitload of other things
Being outside the EU has been a true blessing for Norway. We had two votes regarding the EU, they both ended with a measly 2-5% victory for the "NO" side. If you had a vote today it would be like 90% "NO". Still our largely pro-EU politicians plus the EU and their lobbyists tried to paint a picture of Norway going right down the shitter for voting no to the EU. Today you will struggle to find a single politician in Norway that will openly admit being pro EU.
You still have to abide to the 4 principles of the rule including freedom of movement. You pay in the eu pot but you don't hold any veto
Most of the things you mentioned are done by eu countries too. The eu is inflexible with its principles (mostly) but can be flexible on the rest
During the immigration crisis we invoked the rule of a sovereign nation controlling it's own borders due to national security. We still practice that and will continue to do it.
Because, guess what, we are a sovereign nation and reserve the right to control our own policies and borders. Like every sovereign nation should have the right to without the Stasi guys in Brussel breathing down their neck.