Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Maticmaker]

Or is your point nothing to do with climate change and more the broader point that it will struggle to make large scale changes?

Not exactly, but yes you're beginning to understand, sorry if I've not been clear, too many sidebars get flung at me at times. Climate change thing is what brings it in to focus, it seems as though the EU is not going to change (significantly as many on here believe also) and consequently it will go under because of the pressures from what are currently transient crisis like preparing for climate change and possibly agreeing post Covid norms. If the EU makes the 'big change' ie. to majority voting, to be able to make rapid progress on transient issues, then also the door to the USE opens up. Whilst many people in the UK would like us to remain part of a European wide trading block, not sure many would want the UK submerged into a USE.

 

[Maticmaker]

The English ones or the factual ones?

Are they not the same, its the 'victor'/survivor' that writes the official history (tells the tale) surely, it has been from the beginning of time immemorial (or since man could write!).

 

[JPRouve]

Not exactly, but yes you're beginning to understand, sorry if I've not been clear, too many sidebars get flung at me at times. Climate change thing is what brings it in to focus, it seems as thought the EU is not going to change (significantly as many on here believe also) and consequently it will go under because of the pressures from what are currently transient crisis like preparing for climate change and possibly agreeing post Covid norms. If the EU makes the 'big change' ie. to majority voting, to be able to make rapid progress on transient issues, then also the door to the USE opens up. Whilst many people in the UK would like us to remain part of a European wide trading block, not sure many would want the UK submerged into a USE.

Climate change policies are managed by each countries, the UK were perfectly free to prepare for it and have big plans. That's what France did which by the way is how the yellow jackets started.

 

[Maticmaker]

That's what France did which by the way is how the yellow jackets started.

Wow, that's a good sign then???? But wasn't that Macron's response to preventing further climate change? I've been talking about how to manage and respond to existing or actual climate change which is already happening.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

FFS, the not democratic malarkey. @Paul the Wolf

They must be putting something in the water. Hopefully I escaped just in time. Sadly it seems too late for Matic, he seems now beyond help.

Years of being brainwashed by the British press and politicians just gets too much in the end, I suppose. Wait till the 51st state conspiracy theories start.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

I understand why you want to leave the EU, basically because you don't have any understanding whatsoever of how it works

Bookmarked.

 

[JPRouve]

Wow, that's a good sign then???? But wasn't that Macron's response to preventing further climate change? I've been talking about how to manage and respond to existing or actual climate change which is already happening.

It wasn't from Macron, that particular decision was from the previous president(Hollande) who himself adapted a project from Sarkozy. None of what you are talking about is prevented or even instigated by the EU, sometimes member states' governments may talk about something at the council but these policies are nationals, each country has its own plan because they are all sovereign and the EU isn't a federation.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

'ever closer union' is a main aim for the EU, ever listened to Guy Verhofstadt the Belgium MEP?

Have you?

 

[Maticmaker]

Sadly it seems too late for Matic, he seems now beyond help.

No, resigned to my fate Paul, in EU free zone

 

[Maticmaker]

Have you?

Yes, he can be quite persuasive when he wants something!

 

[Maticmaker]

each country has its own plan because they are all sovereign and the EU isn't a federation.

Precisely, climate change policies reach across borders , but actions stop at the borders, clearly the EU feels this is the way to go!

 

[JPRouve]

Precisely, climate change policies reach across borders , but actions stop at the borders, clearly the EU feels this is the way to go!

So to be clear, you had a problem with the EU allegedly taking decisions for the UK. And now you precisely have a problem with the EU because climate change policies reach across borders and each country is free to elaborate its own policies?

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

Yes, he can be quite persuasive when he wants something!

Good guy to have on your side then!

 

[4bars]

If you read my previous posts, the changes are in the future. I refer to changes that are attempts not to prevent climate change occurring, but combating climate changes already taking places and any changes brought about post Covid. This is all in the future and it is that future I am referring to, i.e. when the EU has achieved its stated aim of closer Union and has become the United States of Europe.

In such circumstances all member states will need to be within the same monetary union i.e. euro-zone, and the federal budget and decision making will be done through Brussels. As an off shore island the UK's needs in such matters will be significantly different, they may be combating the same problems but will take different solutions to those required in a larger land mass.

So you wanted to leave the EU because you can predict the future. This is non sense and UK could oppose anytime to that kind of advance

 

[Wibble]

Trust BoJo et al. to combat climate change?

He would make everyone drink fossil fuels if it enriched the Bullingdon Dining Club cabal.

 

[Withnail]

This Matic dude should write a fantasy novel about this imaginary future.

I thought this thread would be all doom and gloom. Matic has made things quite entertaining. I think he should write that book.

 

[TheGame]

 

[Drifter]

Clap clap.

 

[FireballXL5]

I'm sure the BBC will be all over this today. Holds breath.

 

[TheGame]

So Farage and Vote Leave stating report says no Russian interference in the Referendum. Is this true? If so, how the hell?

 

[Berbasbullet]

Yeah I have seen that too, seems hard to believe.

 

[Smores]

So Farage and Vote Leave stating report says no Russian interference in the Referendum. Is this true? If so, how the hell?

Doubt it, they're just out there trying to downplay the outcome and get their message in people's heads first.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Doubt it, they're just out there trying to downplay the outcome and get their message in people's heads first.

Apparently its been leaked and says no interference in EU ref but Scottish independent one had interference.

 

[TheGame]

Dead Cat tactics already in play with the public sector pay rise story.

 

[TheGame]

Apparently its been leaked and says no interference in EU ref but Scottish independent one had interference.

Ridicoulous if this is the case. The amount of Russian money the Tories have received is substantial.

 

[africanspur]

Dead Cat tactics already in play with the public sector pay rise story.

Seemingly doesn't include junior doctors or GPs (ie most doctors) or nurses either....

 

[TheGame]

Seemingly doesn't include junior doctors or GPs (ie most doctors) or nurses either....

Neither does it for us local government staff.

 

[Maticmaker]

I thought this thread would be all doom and gloom. Matic has made things quite entertaining. I think he should write that book.

Thank you for your vote of confidence, don't think many on here would agree, they don't want to face the future, its a case of ;

"lets stay were we are in these nice warm EU caves, we can even draw on the walls, twelve shining things on a blue background, gives you that warm feeling and keeps away sabre-toothed tigers, so I'm told, pity that man Junker the left the caves, he was the only one who knew how to light what he called a fire"

 

[Kentonio]

Apparently its been leaked and says no interference in EU ref but Scottish independent one had interference.

It doesn’t say that at all, it says they don’t know because the intelligence agencies weren’t asked to investigate it and find out.

 

[Kentonio]

Thank you for your vote of confidence, don't think many on here would agree, they don't want to face the future, its a case of ;

"lets stay were we are in these nice warm EU caves, we can even draw on the walls, twelve shining things on a blue background, gives you that warm feeling and keeps away sabre-toothed tigers, so I'm told, pity that man Junker the left the caves, he was the only one who knew how to light what he called a fire"

No, you can instead head out into a brave new future full of sunny uplands where the US healthcare insurance corporations buy up the NHS and the US flood the U.K. food market with shit. Congrats, hope you enjoy.

 

[Berbasbullet]

It doesn’t say that at all, it says they don’t know because the intelligence agencies weren’t asked to investigate it and find out.

Yep, it does, I was just quoting the leaks from early in the morning

 

[Kentonio]

Yep, it does, I was just quoting the leaks from early in the morning

Ah sorry, didn’t notice the time stamp.

 

[Withnail]

Thank you for your vote of confidence, don't think many on here would agree, they don't want to face the future, its a case of ;

"lets stay were we are in these nice warm EU caves, we can even draw on the walls, twelve shining things on a blue background, gives you that warm feeling and keeps away sabre-toothed tigers, so I'm told, pity that man Junker the left the caves, he was the only one who knew how to light what he called a fire"

I don't think you understood me. I was entertained by your flights of fantasy.

I was confused at first but I thought it was hilarious when you revealed your whole opinion was based on an imagined future.

 

[Maticmaker]

Good guy to have on your side then!

Yes he's like a red rag to a bull with Leavers!

So you wanted to leave the EU because you can predict the future. This is non sense and UK could oppose anytime to that kind of advance.

No I didn't want to leave, but now things are changing anyway, the effects of climate change already underway (non-reversible) /and the legacy of Covid are already happening and Brexit will help us to make more independent and rational and timely decisions that affect us as a off shore island, rather than as part of the mainland mass. The EU is (so we are told) essentially a trading block, with little political emphasis, but if in future its going to spend trillions of euros, it will want value for money and focused on the main needs of the larger countries. At the moment you are right any country can veto any policy, but how long can that last, when regular wildfires fires are ravaging country sides in Spain, Germany and of course France, when freak weather storms floods the Netherlands/Belgium every year or two years and there is nowhere to run the water off unless you start flooding parts of France, etc. Majority voting has to come and the little guys will pay a heavy price, Presently Germany might bail out their economies, but it wont be able to afford to change the landscape of these countries without major inputs from the other rich EU countries who will have their own devils to fight!
The only way for the EU to go is as a federal state , a United States of Europe, all trading in euro's only. The Federal State then can force the issues, it will have to to survive.

 

[Maticmaker]

I don't think you understood me. I was entertained by your flights of fantasy.

I understand, I hope lots of others are when I publish!

 

[Kentonio]

Yes he's like a red rag to a bull with Leavers!



No I didn't want to leave, but now things are changing anyway, the effects of climate change already underway (non-reversible) /and the legacy of Covid are already happening and Brexit will help us to make more independent and rational and timely decisions that affect us as a off shore island, rather than as part of the mainland mass. The EU is (so we are told) essentially a trading block, with little political emphasis, but if in future its going to spend trillions of euros, it will want value for money and focused on the main needs of the larger countries. At the moment you are right any country can veto any policy, but how long can that last, when regular wildfires fires are ravaging country sides in Spain, Germany and of course France, when freak weather storms floods the Netherlands/Belgium every year or two years and there is nowhere to run the water off unless you start flooding parts of France, etc. Majority voting has to come and the little guys will pay a heavy price, Presently Germany might bail out their economies, but it wont be able to afford to change the landscape of these countries without major inputs from the other rich EU countries who will have their own devils to fight!
The only way for the EU to go is as a federal state , a United States of Europe, all trading in euro's only. The Federal State then can force the issues, it will have to to survive.

Except of course the UK was one of the larger countries whose interests would have been protected. We were never one of the ‘little guys’ in Europe.

As for independence, now the Tories have just voted down NHS and food protections, we’re going to be dancing to the Americans tune. Doesn’t sound particularly independent to me.

 

[Maticmaker]

Except of course the UK was one of the larger countries whose interests would have been protected. We were never one of the ‘little guys’ in Europe.

As for independence, now the Tories have just voted down NHS and food protections, we’re going to be dancing to the Americans tune. Doesn’t sound particularly independent to me.

In terms of land mass we were, but in population density we were 'big' guys, etc. we can now spend our 8 billion on ourselves.... yiphee!

Its not about independence its about alignment, (and not just trade) Trump or no Trump we will align with the USA, so will Australia, New Zealand, Canada, etc. other major nations outside the EU (e.g. Nordic nations) will probably align with Russia if they are desperate for Gas & Oil, the rest because of Huawei with China. If the EU becomes the USE, it can have its own world power block, the first step is majority voting, but most of you on here see that as unlikely or miles off yet....really?
Who will the EU be enthralled to, if Russia wants to cut off its energy, China its technology and the USA having given the UK preferred 'nation status' for trade?

 

[golden_blunder]

The Tories are about to have their cake and eat it. Lied lied lied about saving the nhs. Their long term plan is about to come into play and make a few of the old gang very rich indeed.

 

[Kentonio]

In terms of land mass we were, but in population density we were 'big' guys, etc. we can now spend our 8 billion on ourselves.... yiphee!

Its not about independence its about alignment, (and not just trade) Trump or no Trump we will align with the USA, so will Australia, New Zealand, Canada, etc. other major nations outside the EU (e.g. Nordic nations) will probably align with Russia if they are desperate for Gas & Oil, the rest because of Huawei with China. If the EU becomes the USE, it can have its own world power block, the first step is majority voting, but most of you on here see that as unlikely of miles off yet....really?
Who will the EU be enthralled to, if Russia wants to cut off its energy, China its technology and the USA having given the UK preferred 'nation status' for trade?

The idea that the EU would be ‘enthralled’ by anyone is laughable. The EU (pre-Brexit at least) had the largest economy in the world, world leading technology, and a population size that made it a match for any of the potential superpowers. The only area where it was weak was militarily, and then only because of the post-war reliance on the US, something that could and should be remedied quickly.

You really think Australia and NZ will align to the US? Why exactly? Because they’re white and speak English? You know who Australia’s biggest trade partners are? China and Japan.

 

[sun_tzu]

The idea that the EU would be ‘enthralled’ by anyone is laughable. The EU (pre-Brexit at least) had the largest economy in the world, world leading technology, and a population size that made it a match for any of the potential superpowers. The only area where it was weak was militarily, and then only because of the post-war reliance on the US, something that could and should be remedied quickly.

You really think Australia and NZ will align to the US? Why exactly? Because they’re white and speak English? You know who Australia’s biggest trade partners are? China and Japan.

they could start to remedy quickly (eg a new command and control structure and combined strategic procurement plus increasing budgets )... but given military procurement timetables and the delivery times associated with weapons systems and things like ships, planes etc its going to be a very long term not a quick fix...