I agree. Perhaps I should have included the point I made in earlier posts that any new referendum should give voters a range of choices, as that is my main point. Apart from obvioius fairness if people aren't given the chance to vote for something approximating to their wishes they will claim fix and rigging and we'll be back to square one, Farage and all, in a few year's time.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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'A chance of remaining'. With a clear powerful message like that what could possibly go wrong?
Have you tried to plan a list of choices before? It's a shit show and the more you try to make it fair the less fair it becomes. If you start making it ranked choices and building decision trees it becomes an absolute mess.
Its the best chance possible. If there's a better chance let's discuss it as long as you don't say Lib Dems because that's just plain stupid.
Does anyone, even Corbyn, know what this credible deal is? Are the EU likely to accept this credible deal, whatever it is? Can they do all of it in 3 months when it took May 3 years to get her deal on paper and Johnson 3 months to amend that deal a little bit?
We can always implement restrictions on people from the EU who live here for more than 3 months without a job or proof of means, like we always had the option to but decided it wasn't worth our while.
If you aren't happy with that it says a lot about you.
You are kidding, presumably.
If you want to have a chance of remaining vote for the party who want to leave in a non damaging way (even though there apparently isn't a non damaging way)
Well that's cleared that up
That could well be highlighted in a future remain campaign. It seems I have to be tiresome and say once again my point is that if there is another referendum people should have a range of choices to vote for, and not just a rigged two.
I guess that would be ok if there was alternative voting in place.
Not in the slightest. Labour leave is BRINO. Least damaging, only downside no say in EU matters. People want trade just no political integration and BRINO is just that. Not the end of the world and a case to re-join down the line but I suspect we’d just remain.
Yes, because Theresa May spent years laying down red lines and then just abolished them last minute to get a deal out of desperation. Johnson also spent months pissing about then decided last minute any deal will do. Worse than May.
Labour won’t go into negotiations doing that, they’ll want customs union at the very least and possibly even single market. They’ll go with the aim to do a deal from the first day and won’t spend it wasting time.
You’re clearly not as smart as JRM otherwise it’s not that difficult to understand.
What Labour proposed in 2017 was a long way from BRINO, it doesn't sound that much different to that at the moment, hopefully the manifesto will be a bit more clear.
But BRINO is not just trade it's ECJ, freedom of movement, payments, as was the EC and EU just no say.
A nice simple piece on where we are at, nothing mind blowing, I really enjoy The Atlantic.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/the-coming-brexit-farce/ar-AAJZIbp?ocid=spartandhp
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/the-coming-brexit-farce/ar-AAJZIbp?ocid=spartandhp
Oh look, the Prime Minister has had a drink and is either outright lying (very likely) or literally still does not know key details about his own deal (also very likely).
Sadly I agree with whoever said about nothing seeming to cut through the noise in this infernal election.
How about a poll. No deal, deal, remain, juzt leave in any format, revoke.
Its always tease tease tease, you've got me when I'm on my knees.
Its always tease tease tease, you've got me when I'm on my knees.
Moody's downgrades UK's credit outlook
The leading financial services company suggests it could also be about to lower the credit rating on the government's debt.
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/moodys-downgrades-uks-credit-outlook-after-brexit-paralysis-11857899
The leading financial services company suggests it could also be about to lower the credit rating on the government's debt.
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/moodys-downgrades-uks-credit-outlook-after-brexit-paralysis-11857899
As it stands the UK is lower than Germany but on par with France. If they get another downgrade who will they be on par with?
Belgium, Czech Republic and Chile - another benefit of Brexit to come
Geronwivit.
The Labour Farty may answer a simple question very soon.
I'm no fan of the current labour party... But I think until the manifesto comes out it's unrealistic to think people will go off script and make announcements
Will be interesting to see if labour has costed in buying back the water firms
And especially how they have costed the impact of their brexit deal (assuming at least their red lines are in the manifesto)... And will they either reduce or delay spending plans or will they increase taxes
Looks as if FoM is not going to be in their plans so the fantasy BRINO scenario should finally die when they do announce it.
Nationalising everything will not fit into a remain scenario even if the country could afford it. Trying to please everyone should soon be over.
The European parliament’s Brexit coordinator, Guy Verhofstadt, has said he has “doubts” that a trade deal can be negotiated in under a year as claimed by the UK when “in other cases it takes five, seven or nine years”.
Speaking to the European parliament’s committee on constitutional affairs, Verhofstadt said:
I can confirm the doubts that I have that in one year you will do what you need.
For example, [it took] nine years with Canada. An FTA with Britain is even more complicated as the interests at stake are more important, the trade is more important with the UK.
But Superman Corbyn will not only negotiate a new withdrawal agreement but also a trade deal within the space of three months. Amazing.
Speaking to the European parliament’s committee on constitutional affairs, Verhofstadt said:
I can confirm the doubts that I have that in one year you will do what you need.
For example, [it took] nine years with Canada. An FTA with Britain is even more complicated as the interests at stake are more important, the trade is more important with the UK.
But Superman Corbyn will not only negotiate a new withdrawal agreement but also a trade deal within the space of three months. Amazing.
Not amazing at all, the length of time depends on how similar the ambitions of both sides are to what is already in place. Labour would want an arrangement as close as possible to single market membership, most probably the only sticking point being free movement of people but even then free movement, when all the right wing rhetoric on immigrants is removed, is a massive positive for the normal priorities of any sensible government (the economy, tax receipts, the NHS and pretty much everything else you care to think of except perhaps education) so they'd probably even get behind that eventually.
Yes , they want all the same benefits of the EU without complying with the rules, what they said in their 2017 manifesto - doesn't look as if that has changed but on top of that they expect a FTA - they are diversifying from the EU , not getting closer
The chance of this happening is between 0% and 0%. Can't wait for the manifesto.
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wtf?
Lot's of Germans in it I presume.
Tesla cites Brexit as Germany chosen over UK for European plant
US electric carmaker will build battery factory in Berlin, says boss Elon Musk
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/13/tesla-cites-brexit-as-germany-chosen-over-uk-for-european-plant-elon-musk
US electric carmaker will build battery factory in Berlin, says boss Elon Musk
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/13/tesla-cites-brexit-as-germany-chosen-over-uk-for-european-plant-elon-musk
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Corbyn says he disagrees with Tusk's claim UK would be 'second-rate player' outside EU
In an interview this morning in Scotland Jeremy Corbyn said he rejected the claim from Donald Tusk, the outgoing European council president, that Britain will become a “second-rate player” if it leaves the EU. Asked if he agreed, he replied:
No I don’t think we are ever going to be a second-rate player.
This is a big country, an important country and trading partner and I look forward to leading a government that will be working with others around the world.
[Tusk] makes many statements at many times and he is the president of the EU and, yes, he can make those statements and I look forward to discussing them with him.
So the Labour remain myth dies and Corbyn doesn't realise Tusk will no longer be President from 1 December.
In an interview this morning in Scotland Jeremy Corbyn said he rejected the claim from Donald Tusk, the outgoing European council president, that Britain will become a “second-rate player” if it leaves the EU. Asked if he agreed, he replied:
No I don’t think we are ever going to be a second-rate player.
This is a big country, an important country and trading partner and I look forward to leading a government that will be working with others around the world.
[Tusk] makes many statements at many times and he is the president of the EU and, yes, he can make those statements and I look forward to discussing them with him.
So the Labour remain myth dies and Corbyn doesn't realise Tusk will no longer be President from 1 December.
To be fair he had to say basically exactly that, otherwise tomorrows headlines would have been "Commie Corbyn calls UK second-rate country!!"
Probably, but he could have said "we'd be much better off staying in the EU".
I think this is where the tide turns. The people of this country will as much as allow you to ram them in the backside if the papers tell them so, but mess with their football and the pitchforks will be coming out.
RIP Brexit, RIP Conservatives
Well well well, what's all this then?
