Of course not. The EU don't want to be responsible for a no deal. Paul the wolf just likes to attack Corbyn constantly and, I have to say, doesn't appear to let facts get in the way.
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Of course not. The EU don't want to be responsible for a no deal. Paul the wolf just likes to attack Corbyn constantly and, I have to say, doesn't appear to let facts get in the way.
The only way no deal gets ‘taken off the table’ though is either by passing a deal or revoking A50. Otherwise Corbyn will be waiting a long time.
I'm at a point where I think the best thing that can happen for the country (if there's not another referendum) is a GE and a hung parliament. It woulf force the shower we have elected to work with each other.
I've not heard anyone say permanently off the table just for the interim to allow an election.
Unfortunately this deal doesn't take no deal impacts off the table. If people vote Tory in the election they're voting for a WTO brexit by default
Probably not, but it could and it's not in Johnson's or Corbyn's hands. Benn made Johnson ask for an extension which he did, that doesn't stop no deal - the only certain way to stop no deal is to revoke or get an agreement.
EU delays decision on Extension until after Mondays vote in the Commons on an election.
That has nothing whatsoever to do with Corbyn wanting to protect the UK from an economic crash and everything to do with the fact that if BJ takes no-deal off the table the Brexit party will split the Tory vote.
Maybe, but Johnson can't take no deal off the table even if he wanted to.
We essentially have that at the moment.
If we want an end to this mess we actually need a government (of whichever colour you prefer) with a strong majority.
Yeah, and as much as I am not a fan of the Tories its probably best that its them at this point. Labour have shot down Mays deal and Johnsons deal. If they were to get in and respect the vote of the Referendum as they say they will then surely that means another round of negotiations on a new deal with the EU and how Long would that take…...
Another hung parliament will ensure Brexit is resolved by a referendum.
Labour have said 9 months
3 months to agree a magical new deal that is resplendent with unicorns (well at least will let is access all EU trade deals and let us veto any future ones whilst we are free to run around and negotiate our own)
Then 6 months to run a referendum
I cant envisage the EU extending beyond June as thats when the new EU 7 year finance period starts ... so I dont think even if labour win (and i cant see that with corbyn) they would grant them enough time for that
If they want a referendum and they want a remain option and they dont want no deal it will probably have to be johnson (or mays) deal vs remain... which is actually what I think SNP and Libs have indicated as well - so provided corbyn gives up on negotiating a new deal that could happen I think probably by June (as long as he goes for the 12th December date)
If they delay the election to January I think the possibility of the EU granting an extension sufficient for a referendum goes down substantially.
A government (of whichever colour you prefer) pushing through an ideologic WA is only going to cause harm to the country. We don't officially have a hung parliament at the moment and as such, there is no reason for anyone to work with anyone else in a productive and meaningful manner.
The fact is you cannot take no deal off the table - Corbyn is a moron.
Can we call it squeaky bum time now?
not necessarily
Brexit and Conservatives that would be WTO or johnsons deal and no second referendum I think
add in the DUP and it would be No deal for sure
I'm not a fan of the Tories but it's probably best it's them at this point...because I'm a fecking masochist.
Can you please, please, for the love of fecking God stop saying "unicorn"?
"Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a unicorn."
Not from an overall perspective. I was speaking purely in isolation of getting Brexit done.
I stand by my statement.
Not from an overall perspective. I was speaking purely in isolation of getting Brexit done.
sure... just prove to me god is any more real than his unicorn plan and we have a deal
You're opening pandora's box there, let's not take this thread too off topic
No, because:
i)That's a terrible deal, even by current standards of terrible deals
ii)I'm an atheist
and
iii)Just stop it please. It's astonishingly irritating. It's like writing "Liverpoo" in the football forum.
How is that a fact? Parliament could easily legislate to prevent no deal by ruling that should the departure date arrive with no deal or extension agreed, then art. 50 must be revoked.
Your only argument against this would be down to parliamentary arithmetic. But this applies to every single other option too.
Corbyn is not the brightest tool on the box. But he is head and shoulders above Johnson and they are currently the only two possible candidates to lead our country. If you have a vote, then pick one. If your choice is Johnson, then you are backing no deal brexit. Picking Corbyn is the compromise option. I trust him to not ruin our country in pursuit of ideology. Can you say the same about Johnson?
I think there's a school of thought that suggests that if you removed government in all its forms, the initial turmoil would eventually settle into harmony and equilibrium.Works for Ireland
Someone on here will know better than me regarding that theory.
But that wouldnt bind the next parliament as parliament cant bind its successor... so if the EU grant an extension to lets say 31st Jan the only way to take no deal off is to leave before then with a deal or revoke ... if you had an election the threat of no deal is not removed as the new government can say we have a mandate for no deal (or johnsons deal with the default of no deal and revoke the previous legistlation.
I genuinely am not sure Parliament can actually legislate in a way that would bind its successor to ensure no deal could not happen
By the same token any future government can reverse a UK exit and take us back in. Or at least apply..
Can anyone articulate a coherent argument against a referendum on the actual deal that would take Britain out of the EU?
If you want Brexit, great, vote for it now that you know precisely what it means.
If you don't want Brexit, great, vote against it now that you know precisely what it means.
If you were unsure, now you have the actual terms so you can make an educated decision.
If it passes, there can be no doubt in parliament and it will move ahead much more smoothly. If it fails, we can all move on and get back to actually doing something.
If you want Brexit, great, vote for it now that you know precisely what it means.
If you don't want Brexit, great, vote against it now that you know precisely what it means.
If you were unsure, now you have the actual terms so you can make an educated decision.
If it passes, there can be no doubt in parliament and it will move ahead much more smoothly. If it fails, we can all move on and get back to actually doing something.
They can only apply, one does not simply just go back into the EU.
Well unless the EU are gagging for us to come back, they might relax the rules, that's pure speculation though and probably unlikely to happen.
As I said the only way to stop no deal is to revoke or agree a deal and this time next week you could be out, will legislation pass before this time next week?
You say the EU won't let this happen, but that is far more likely than parliament agreeing to revoking A50 if there is no agreement by a certain date. The UK are in the last chance saloon, uncertainty is becoming worse than no deal for the EU.
They are both hopeless as leaders of the country. I don't rate Johnson either but he may act the buffoon but is far brighter. Who knows what Corbyn's going to do, it changes every day. His proposed deal is ridiculous and also factually impossible. Yesterday McDonnell says Labour will enact the referendum result, another day they are backing remain, another day they may do something else. They are trying to please all sides and can't.
Edit:
- Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has said he would back an election if the prime minister came to parliament on Monday and made a commitment to take the threat of a no deal Brexit off the table. He told ITV’s This Morning that Labour would support a parliamentary vote to hold an election ...
Can't you see from the above that Corbyn is a fool.
2nd edit:
Asked if he thought Boris Johnson would do that, Corbyn said:
He’s going to have to do that because that’s how Parliament works: we’ve got to hold him to account. I think a no-deal exit is very dangerous. If he comes on Monday and says that, OK.
Boris says I pwomise that the EU will agree a FTA - Corbyn - all wight then.
On which planet does he live.
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indeed - I genuinley think whichever side wins the brexit battle will loose the war
If we leave I think within a decade we will apply to rejoin as anything that goes wrong will be blamed on brexit and the remain side will unite and mobilise more effectivley (just like UKIP had been fostering the EU resentment for years the opposite will happen with a pro eu movement... I suspect the lib dems become the european democrats and rejoining becomes their core aim)
and equally if we do get a 2nd referendum and remain the anger will grow and grow within the brexit movement and either through the brexit party or a further move to the right of the conservatives we get a government elected on submitting article 50 - no referendum - no negotiations - straight to WTO
I agree with your second point, but in the former case I believe the continued and extensive years of negotiations as well as the "hangover" of coming out of the EU will be blamed by the leave camp and their media juggernaut on the EU which will be accepted just as the web of disinformation of the last decade has been.
In short, remain loses no matter what.
Well that's fantastic
Really? I wouldn't.
You said it's impossible in order to yet again paint Corbyn in a bad light, that's what I was picking up on. If the will is there, legislation can be passed very quickly.
Maybe so. The sensible thing to do would be a 2 year flextension. ie the UK could leave before the end of 2 years, but takes away the cliff edge to ease pressure on business.
I'm not sure that being a lying charlatan is a sign of intelligence. I don't see on what you base this assertion. I take his brashness as a sign of ignorance, and Corbyn's thoughtfulness as a sign of intelligence. But, each to their own, i guess.
He's trying to find compromise in a very difficult situation. I believe he deserves credit for this, not derision. Even if I don't agree with his stance.
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. You may not be aware of the thoery that if Johnson had his deal agreed, he can actually go ahead and leave without a deal at the end of this month, through simply closing/blocking parliament again as the Benn act no longer applies.
Trying to stop that seems a noble effort, no?
I apologise if this post seems a bit confrontational. But I have honestly been losing patience with your constant snidey attacks on Corbyn, which come close to daily mail headlines in their inability to understand the nuances required in politics. Some things in life are difficult to reduce to a few words, nor should that be a requirement.
I have never heard a politician with who I fully agree. But as I said above. For now, It's Corbyn or Johnson. The choice seems so blindingly obvious to me that only one of those care about the people of this country and the wider world. The other is a lying charlatan.
Johnson, and the rest of the tories have been damaging our country for 9 years now. Brexit is all theirs too.
But when his ideology is fairness, it doesn't really compare with the damage of one whose ideology is dog-eat-dog, survival of the f̶i̶t̶t̶e̶s̶t̶ richest, it does make me wonder how that concern can be so high that you are prepared to overlook the actual damage aleady being done by the other side.
The UK have to be gone or stay by June, one way or another. I sincerely doubt they will go beyond January and almost certainly Macron won't. Another 2 years of this! You have to be kidding - the world does not revolve around the UK.
A compromise is not suggesting an impossibility, he deserves zero credit for that. It's either total stupidity or lying to con his supporters.
I have no regard for Johnson so I'm not pro-Johnson and criticise him just as much as Corbyn and May before Johnson.
The end of my point also shows it's the prospect of the EU not agreeing to a FTA by the end of the transition period that Corbyn is concerned with. Johnson, Corbyn or Father Christmas can't control that.
You do realise that Corbyn voted to trigger A50 and whipped his MPs under a Tory majority government who could have passed any agreement they liked. He also voted against and whipped his MPs to vote against May's deal which would have prevented no deal , which would have assured the UK stayed in the EU safety net until the magical solution was found which wouldn't have been -- now he's voted against this deal, which is obviously worse than May's but nevertheless is better than no deal but by doing so has actually kept no deal on the table.
Genuine question, why do people care about how long it takes as opposed to getting the right deal for the country? Just stop watching the news if it winds you up so much