Boris isn't conceding this without having the votes somewhere. It's too much of a climb down.
The DUP are being shown the door it seems
The DUP are being shown the door it seems
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
- Start date
Because it's not really in the EU's interest.... They would much rather avoid no deal and granting an extension that allows for a ge / referendum would seem to make a better deal for them more likley
I think the deadline for them is June (next 7 year finance cycle for the EU) so they won't reach the take it or feck off option till around then.
Perhaps a dozen labour?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mi.../boris-johnson-team-talks-labour-20516540.amp
With that he's going to need pretty much all the erg ... And the conservatives he kicked out
Gut feel he will have to conceed a confirmation referendum to get enough labour votes to get it over the line
Unless he doesn't see any plan that could get through so he's made a concession to the EU just to get a deal that he can use as an electoral weapon against parliament in the coming GE. The GE sounds like it'll have to be next year now btw.
Boris doesn't care about brexit he cares about keeping office.
The majority in Parliament would vote to revoke in a blind vote. Or at worst for a 2nd referendum.
Let's say confidence motion on Monday 21st
They can't agree a leader in 14 days (4th November) Then I think 25 days...
So actually end of november / start of December is possible
Probably another couple of weeks before it would need to be next year (keep in mind benn act only asks for extension till end of january... As it stands... I think EU might say end of may to give time for a referendum)
So that’s the hardcore no deal mob in agreement. Around 80 hard on BJ fanboys. Bid deal!
Last edited:
One more year! One more year!
Yet so far they have not... And by blind vote I assume you mean anonymous which of course won't ever be the case... So again we have no majority in parliament for anything at the moment
Sorry, I meant anonymous.
May deal vs BJ deal vs 2nd Ref vs Revoke
That’s what the voting will be on Super Saturday?
2nd referendum wins by default.
In agreement with something that they rejected 2 years ago. @Smores proposition seems very sensible but it shouldn't stop at BJ.
Hard on BJ fanboys who were also anti May, no matter what she said.
I said same on previous page: people parliament propaganda
In theory it's just a vote on accepting Boris deal (provided that's agreed at the EU summit)
In practical terms I think there will be numerous amendments
Official labour... Demanding labour are allowed to negotiate unicorns?
Official Snp... Second indy ref tagged onto a confirmation referendum?
Lib amendment... Reject and revoke
Probably a reject and try a Norway deal
Probably reject and try WTO option
Probably accept subject to a confirmatory referendum
Would depend on speaker selecting them but I think the second ref is the one that would have most backing
Yeah. That’s also been my deep suspicion on Labour BrExit. What is different about the deal they would construct and negotiate?
They say they want to be in a customs union with the EU... But not THE customs union... Essentially they want to be able to negotiate their own deals and veto any EU deals... Unicorns ... Not achievable so essentially they would probably have to stay in the customs union (and not negotiate their own deals) or end up with a similar deal to Mays with close reglationary alignment
So they still have the same Irish border issue?
If we (all UK) are in the customs union I think not...
A customs union where we negotiate seperatw deals outside the EU and in "a" customs union then. I think probably yes
But frankly the idea that the EU are going to let us have a say in their deals and take advantage of all EU trade deals plus still go off and negotiate our own takes us back to the cherry picking at the start... Pure unicorn stuff
Jobs first Brexit!
What if a second referendum doesn't give the desired answer? Do we go for a third, because even if it was a confirmatory vote, MP's would still find a way to overturn it.
If remain wins, where does that leave 17 million people who voted leave the first time round? Where does it leave future referendums? May as well scrap them going forward if you're going to overturn a vote before it's even been implemented.
Whilst a second referendum might be tempting to some, as it could give them the result they desire, it will do nothing more than divide the country even more, which is why i think Labour want to go down the GE route first, promising a second ref, meaning they have the mandate to do one, and people obviously support the idea.
If the deal is hard enough to please the ERG, it will lose support from a lot of moderates who backed May's deal. With the current makeup of Parliament, there is no deal that will please a majority.
A confirmatory vote clearly makes sense from an impartial point of view. Now that we know(most of) what's involved. Better to be sure before the worst of the damage is done.... There WILL be damage btw. That's not up for debate. Whether that damage is worthwhile is where the debate can be had, but once the full damage is done it cannot be quickly undone.
I wouldn't be against future referendums on EU membership. I may even vote leave myself should something significant change. But there is absolutely no chance that parliament would put a confirmatory vote back to the people and not go through with it, should they return a leave vote once more.
They are still free to vote in any future referendums and elections. Just like the rest of us. None of us have a right to be on the 'winning' side. Democracy is a process, wiith many decisions to be made.
For certain there needs to be tighter regulations around any future referendums. Whether they should in future be binding, I don't know. It is very difficult to assess how much effect any particular act of illegality has had.
I struggle to see how the country can be much more divided.
Corbyn is the only grown-up trying to bring things together in the fairest way possible. It won't work though, the cries of marxist are too loud for most to hear him.
Corbyn walks out of PM’s Brexit meeting over Umunna invitation
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...rty-leaders-brexit-meeting-over-umunna-invite
That was kind of my point
The meeting they all agreed was utterly pointless but Umanna decided to gate crash anyway. Really good point
The meeting they all agreed was utterly pointless but Umanna decided to gate crash anyway. Really good point
Just jesting, I agreed with his post other than the Corbyn being grown up bit
Just jesting, I agreed with his post other than the Corbyn being grown up bit
In the playskool that is parliament, he is the work experience kid trying to keep them all in line.
God knows how he is going to convince Arlene and the DUP to go with this. Being from the North its probably the best it would get for us (except for remaining) as it would give us the best of both worlds and maybe give the economy here a good boost. That's if the deal goes through.
Isn't a border in the Irish Sea a far worse outcome than the backstop as far as Biris and the ERG concerned? So his plan is to negotiate a worse deal.than May's that they all hated and voted against?
It's a bit worse than that. If the reports are correct, it's the initial proposition made by the EU and Ireland that was rejected by the UK and led to the backstop option.
He is a genius negotiator. Like the haggling scene from Monty Python's Life of Brian.
Seems like a non starter this. What’s Boris up to here?
Yeah something seems off about this.
I'm sure that Kuenssberg will report it as a shrewd deal though.
It's odd but his aim isn't any particular deal it's to secure whatever output will boost his image/electability. I imagine they've done the polling and know this is still considered as getting brexit done and he'll be lauded for it.
Deep down we all know that previous words no longer matter in politics as long as the direction of travel is considered correct, it's batshit but that's where we are.
A) he gets it through and wins the heart of the brexiteers
B) he doesn't, he blames parliament and then gets to campaign on an actual deal promising to implement it
I think he just wants a deal....he knows it won't get through parliament and doesn't care. It just needs to be different from May's deal.
He is playing the "drain the swamp" playbook from Trump so is hoping that people will be frustrated by Parliament saying "no" again.
That's why the tories are trying to make out a deal is "imminent" and are making positive noises...they know it won't get through parliament.
Optics. He has a deal. Now he can blame parliament for no deal.
Giving away Northern Ireland was the will of the people!