Wish someone would put out your message to the 17 Million voters who voted to help fill pockets of these select group of people, selling the country out.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
- Start date
What was that Queen speech all about?
This is why I find it so frustrating. Brexiteers would rather push it through because they fell for it rather than admit they are wrong
The only way a referendum should be done first is if it includes Mays deal. It would be incredibly irresponsible for the remainers in parliament to risk Boris getting this deal through just so they can roll the dice at a people's vote.
That is my view as well. But. These are politicians who are making these decisions.
Hm. The problem with that is that May's deal is history and as you know well has been rejected soundly.
There would be some logic in the modified deal following the discussions with Labour, the Steven Kinnock option.
I am pleased that after all this time, the word compromise is being used, even by Boris.
Let's see what the final position is before deciding on the referendum options.
It's been rejected by parliament but that's completely irrelevant in a referendum considering it'll be premised on the MPs passing the result whether they like it or not.
You could argue it being a worse deal helps the remain cause but if remain doesn't win they'll be the ones responsible for the severe economic hit we take.
I can see that. My concern would be that the May deal has become so tarnished that it could go the other way.
Boris is such a little bitch.
So what does that mean exactly? Does it mean NI are basically still in the EU?
In all but name, pretty much.
I'm not even sure a bunch of conservatives will...
May said no pm could agree to this... Will she vote for it?
I suspect most conservatives will but he will need to get a chunk of non conservative MPs...
Dup? Probably
Libs... None of them will vote for it
SNP... Again none will vote for it
Change UK or whatever... Suspect none
Labour... Well officially I'm sure it will fail their 6 tests so perhaps a few rebel but most o think vote against
Doubt it has the votes as it is
That said with an amendment saying confirmatory referendum between this deal and remain.... Well if the conservatives would back that then I'm pretty sure it would go through
The chances of said amendment getting through would be slim too. I'm betting many Labour MP's would feel like betraying their constituents if they represent a leave voting area, so i'd bet a lot of Labour MP's would abstain or vote against. Corbyn himself doesn't seem to want a referendum until Labour are in power, so i'd say such an amendment would be a non-starter.
So basically we will see a reunified Ireland?
Essentially ROI will have more of a say over a lot of NI’s law than themselves them surely?
Well official labour policy is for a referendum with remain on the ballot (albeit the other option being unicorns) ... I could see there being a lot of labour MPs voting for that and it remains to be seen how good (or bad) party whips are at keeping people in line.
Equally if Boris felt it was the only way to get his deal over the line he might back it as well.
I think it has more chance with a referendum attached than not... But even then it's not certain to pass
Essentially yes in many ways NI is.
Arlene Foster!!
How so?
Because NI become a de facto member of the EU, but without a say on anything.
At least that’s how I understand it, happy to be corrected of course.
Arlene Foster!!
Now waiting for the 'What we have always said is that a border in the Irish Sea is our preference, even though we didnt say that this is what we actually meant' speech
How will that mean the EU will have more of a say over NI's laws than themselves? That is just incorrect - NI remains under UK law. EU will have a say over customs regulations which NI will need to respect but that's it.
It seems likely that there will be some mechanism by which NI consents to this. It won't be a unilateral DUP veto as the UK essentially put forward but it will get the buy-in of the people of NI in some capacity.
I see, as I said in my post when I edited it I am happy to be corrected.
Which is why May and many One Nation Tories will never ever vote for such.
We never saw any of this being discussed during referendum campaigning period. This is 'pure cut off nose to spite face' nonsense.
Thanks!
I think Corbyn will whip his party into line for this.
How do people in Northern Ireland feel about this? I think it would provoke civil war issues a few years down the line.
So no chance the deal passes?
I can't see it. But it does help BJ's propaganda of people vs Parliament in the upcoming election: "I got a deal but the w@nkers in parliament wouldn't vote for the will of the people'
that would just be handing Boris a huge victory, politically. i can't see it. not without some kind of concession.
Bad choice of word "in line". I meant whip to vote against.
gotcha! in that case, yes, i agree
Might just be the only winners out of this whole fiasco. That's unless the DUP don't feck it up for them.
He should be hung, drawn and quartered for wasting everyones fecking time
DUP not on board it seems, I don't see where the votes are for this deal
In theory, if the EU said Johnson's deal was final, that they would not be entering into any further negotiations and that rejecting it would result in a no deal exit, could it then get enough support to pass?
Hardline Brexiteers aren't going to vote for it anyway but given that stopping no-deal is the one thing there's a clear majority for, maybe enough Labour MPs would support it in those circumstances? I mean how could anti-no-deal MPs justify voting against a deal if the EU makes it clear that doing so will definitely result in no deal?
Hardline Brexiteers aren't going to vote for it anyway but given that stopping no-deal is the one thing there's a clear majority for, maybe enough Labour MPs would support it in those circumstances? I mean how could anti-no-deal MPs justify voting against a deal if the EU makes it clear that doing so will definitely result in no deal?
I guess the plus side for Corbyn would be
1. It would make the next election focussed on issues other than brexit
2. He get the UK out of Europe without having to somehow get it past the labour membership
Because they can force an extension which opens up the possibility of a second referendum and remain / revoke which many would prefer to leaving with a deal
Back to the old problem there is a majority in parliament against every option and a majority for none
The UK can't force an extension if the EU don't agree to one though, which is my point. What would happen if the EU said that they would refuse to grant any further extensions in the event of Johnson's deal being rejected? Therefore giving MPs a black & white choice: this deal or no deal?
Not saying the EU would do this, just asking whether it would be enough to get the deal through.