I don't see how that could happen. The pledge from Johnson in the court includes a commitment that he will do nothing to undermine the Benn Act. Meeting with Hungary and securing an arrangement that leads them to exercise their right to a veto would obviously contravene that. Assuming that is the case, it would be clear to any observer that Hungary would only do that on the basis of some kind of quid pro quo with the UK government. If Johnson's plan is to get Hungary to exercise their right to veto an extension, surely the last thing he would do is commit himself in a court of law to precisely the opposite? He's got to have had enough of getting humiliated by the courts, and I cannot see how the result could be anything but that if this indeed were to be the case. Nevertheless, I concur that there's probably some sort of plan behind all this, but Hungary vetoing it does not seem to me a possibility anymore.
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I don't see how that could happen. The pledge from Johnson in the court includes a commitment that he will do nothing to undermine the Benn Act. Meeting with Hungary and securing an arrangement that leads them to exercise their right to a veto would obviously contravene that. Assuming that is the case, it would be clear to any observer that Hungary would only do that on the basis of some kind of quid pro quo with the UK government. If Johnson's plan is to get Hungary to exercise their right to veto an extension, surely the last thing he would do is commit himself in a court of law to precisely the opposite? He's got to have had enough of getting humiliated by the courts, and I cannot see how the result could be anything but that if this indeed were to be the case. Nevertheless, I concur that there's probably some sort of plan behind all this, but Hungary vetoing it does not seem to me a possibility anymore.
Yeah it's hard to predict what will happen. I'm now just in the mind frame that I'd ask "well what would Trump do? Yeah Boris will probably that."
We're probably also guilty of falling into the trap that there is some kind of 'plan' behind any of this at all. They're making it up as they go along. And it may well be just as plausible that Johnson and his advisers have come to the conclusion that they simply cannot get around the Benn Act in spite of all their attempts to identify a viable loophole and have decided to actually obey the law this time; admittedly, this may well just be wishful thinking. Johnson will have to renege on his claim to rather be dead in a ditch, but does it matter? The soundbite is out there and it will have appealed to the people he wanted it to.
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Offer Hungary a fek ton of cash if they veto (instead of sending the money to the EU?)
hes certainly got a plan
Not sure when the opposition could call a vote of no confidence
Think they could call for one on Monday with the vote on tuesday before prorogation (not sure they will though as the mood seems to be to wait and push johnson past 19th)
Then Parliament not back till 14th and am I right in thinking the queens speech will take priority over other business...possibly even including a vote of no confidence? -(not sure can anybody confirm that) and the queens speech normally takes a week worth of parliamentary time - so basically 21st / 22nd - perhaps it would be as late as 23rd they could call a confidence motion if they dont act on Monday?... and he could have talked somebody into vetoing by then?
Both sides need to compromise to get a working solution sorted of course. But 27 countries have already compromised twice now by being willing to accept two proposals (one designed by the UK) to try to accommodate the UK's exit from the EU. Both were rejected by the UK (Government or Parliament), so it's now up to the UK to find a solution to this mess.
The UK has to compromise more than the EU here, they created this situation with the referendum and their responsibilities to the Northern Ireland peace process are making it an incredibly complex situation. I don't see what more the 27 other members of the EU could do to accommodate Brexit without undermining the single market.
Does the Benn Act stipulate what the length of extension the PM as to ask for (someone mentioned until the 31st Jan 2020) and/or how it has to be delivered?
Just thinking what 'wheeze' Boris might use?
The letter might get lost in the post, then pop up at some Brussels Brewery, on the 1st Nov...as long as Boris has proof of posting?!
Or if it is to be an actual letter written on parchment or whatever and delivered in the diplomatic bag, the bag may get lost or diverted elsewhere end up in some UK Embassy on the other side of the world?
The letter could ask for a one day, or even one hour extension, maybe?
Or maybe that famous newspaper headline "Fog over the English Channel, Continent cut-off" has a part to play?
I agree, Boris will disappoint millions if he hasn't got something planned, maybe he even expects to be the first Brexit Martyr and be imprisoned in the Tower. What a legacy, the man to take us out of the EU, the PM with the shortest ever reign and the first Prime Minister for centuries to be imprisoned in the Tower... its Boris all over!
Hungary and the rest of the EU need to stand strong on this as a group, no weak links
I'm not sure why any nation would risk a veto like this, given that Johnson could be ousted at any time.
Yes the date is unambiguously specified and Johnson's commitment to the court may even make it possible that should he renege on that promise the court could sign the letter on his behalf and deliver it. I believe that point is going to be decided at a wider hearing on Monday.
not sure - perhaps arranging a sneeky veto by somebody but possibly something along the lines of
the UK government has been forced to ask for a pointless extension by vermin remoaners and we have complied with the law... but we have no intention of any further renegotiation's and the only reason for the EU to grant an extension would be to try to work with the architects of the surrender act in order to undermine the democratically elected government and overthrow it in a coup to stop brexit and the will of the British people. As such any extension is an act of war and I am declaring a national emergency and closing parliament as we deal with this threat to our democracy and if an extension is offered I will send my response attached to a trident missile aimed at Brussles
or something equally crazy - afterall its boris so anything is possible
Then we turn up looking for a trade deal and the first two things on the EU's agenda are going to be Divorce Bill and Back Stop.
Depends who is in power after a hard brexit...
If its the libs they say actually we want to rejoin
If its labour they probably settle up on at least the Divorce Bill ASAP
If its conservatives / brexit they might even say we are going to strike deals with USA and China before we talk to the EU
The Democrats will demand that we honour the GFA before they will talk with us.
I would replace this with "I will round up all the traitors and send them up to Hadrian's Wall to repel the expected Scottish invaders armed only with bound copies of Miles and Erskine" And further more, "I will banish parliament and lock all opposition (and one or two of my own party) members in the Tower and throw the key into the Thames".
Personally I think the Trident missile bit, is going too far... dont you think?
I smell a rat.
You assume your ancestors are British? Or have you looked into the family tree? You might be a Dane.
My company wont employ anybody not living in the Netherlands already.
Maybe the leave campaign, politicians and voters, should've considered the impact that leaving would have on the island of Ireland. Especially when considering the context and history between our nations.
A fair and reasonable mindset would not throw toys out the pram when Britain historical actions and current responsibilities are brought up!
I work for a Dutch group... The are pretty good at moving people to Holland from other countries if they are the right person.... But obviously making somebody has the right to move there is pretty key... Already impacted some Brits who we might well have hired or who would have been called for another interview if there was more certainty ref working in head office etc
I'm lucky I have an Irish passport as well so for me it's not that big an impact
It depends on the company, current employer dont want to pay the cost and implement the 30% rule for them. The drawback to all this is that in such a fantastic economy the big companies are prepared to pay and we are struggling to find people. There is such a shortage of personnel in every sector right now i can see it having a negative effect on the economy very soon.
I think he waits for rejection then calls ge, no-one then has the authority to ask for an extension. Game set match
It’ll be extension, GE, then all hell breaking loose
He needs a majority to call a GE. He won't get one while the cliff edge is so close.
He could ask for an extension for the EU to reconsider what is the UK's final offer, could you imagine the uproar?
He can't do that, he needs 2/3 majority to dissolve parliament and call an election himself (won't happen obviously), or he needs a vote of no confidence to be passed, which won't be tabled until the opposition parties have agreed a temporary leader who can command a majority, so no election.
The letter he has to send is already written, it's part of the Benn Act.
Sounds like he is going to do something to try to not comply with the Benn Bill. But what?
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Ridiculous that any politician would break the law for a 52% referendum over parliamentary democracy. When actually, if he just worked with parliament they'd have a better chance of agreeing a Brexit deal.
That's if you even believe Johnson. Reality is he will do whatever he thinks will win an election. Power hungry. But with the dangerous Cummings ideology behind it all.
So much for UK sovereignty. That was just a code word for a coup.
That's if you even believe Johnson. Reality is he will do whatever he thinks will win an election. Power hungry. But with the dangerous Cummings ideology behind it all.
So much for UK sovereignty. That was just a code word for a coup.
He doesn't give a feck about 52%. Hes an absolute cnut.
Well the Hungarian foreign minister and the Ambassador were filmed leaving Johnsons emergency cabinet meeting yesterday morning, putting 2 and 2 together they either have or are trying to convince another member state to veto the extention. (https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...-latest-Boris-Johnson-Peter-Szijjarto-Twitter)
I don't know how feasible this is and I doubt an EU member state in receipt of huge EU funds would throw the others under the bus like that for a country that is leaving, no matter what is on offer.
It shows despite all the Johnson bluster they don't have a plan so rather than send the letter he'll probably resign as PM but not leader of the Tories and hope the opposition parties can't agree on a temp PM, forcing an election and as far as I know meaning no letter is sent, although if what I read yesterday is correct then part of the court case in Scotland going on at the minute is about trying to establish whether the judges themselves would have the legal authority to send the letter if Boris tries to circumvent the Benn Act.
I'm no legal expert but if the judges have the authority to perform a task the PM should be doing in the event of the PM breaking the law, I don't see any reason they couldn't also do it in the event of there being no PM to ensure the spirit of the law is adhered to. All ifs and buts though.
Cummings, Johnson, or both?
Cummings, Johnson, or both?
Both.
Bears remembering that is was the British who lobbied hard for Hungary to be admitted into the EU. Trojan horse?
Our friends the Hungarians?
The other blame game
Not the whole blaming remoaners if they stop / delay brexit
But the one that will kick off if Boris does pursuade Hungary to veto and we are out on 31st
At that point the blame game will be amongst the opposition as to why they didn't depose him
SNP clearly have pushed to remove Johnson earlier
Libs tried their own confidence motion that labour didn't back before the summer recess
Labour might find themselves on a sticky whicket there I think
Not the whole blaming remoaners if they stop / delay brexit
But the one that will kick off if Boris does pursuade Hungary to veto and we are out on 31st
At that point the blame game will be amongst the opposition as to why they didn't depose him
SNP clearly have pushed to remove Johnson earlier
Libs tried their own confidence motion that labour didn't back before the summer recess
Labour might find themselves on a sticky whicket there I think
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Could the EU take measures against Hungary if they veto?
We'd have to make it worth Hungary's whole, imagine that the Tories pay huge amounts to have another country destroy our economy. The mind boggles that this is even being discussed.
We'd have to make it worth Hungary's whole, imagine that the Tories pay huge amounts to have another country destroy our economy. The mind boggles that this is even being discussed.
Same chat about Poland previously wasn't there? No country is gonna want to ruin their relationship with the other 26 just to help us kill ourselves.
The whole point of the veto system in the EU is that countries cannot be forced into accepting something they see as being against their national interest. If Hungary believes an extension is damaging to its economy and/or other national interests then it can use the veto.
One thing is for certain if Hungary does use its veto, then that will likely be the end of such a system in the EU and the much vaunted majority voting will be ushered in.
One thing is for certain if Hungary does use its veto, then that will likely be the end of such a system in the EU and the much vaunted majority voting will be ushered in.
The veto is already on its last leg, I can't remember if it has already been voted though.