Well the Dutch were told yesterday that everyone will have to pay to make up UKs contribution. Which seems fantastically bizarre as the eu budget should be lower.
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Well the Dutch were told yesterday that everyone will have to pay to make up UKs contribution. Which seems fantastically bizarre as the eu budget should be lower.
Wouldn't the vast majority of those UK-focused companies still stick with EU regulations anyway as best practice?
1.19 against the euro and it was what 1.40 just before the referendum - so still another 17.6% rise needed just to get back to where we were?
The UK makes a contribution though, they're a net contributor. A lot of countries aren't net contributors, they're receivers, so if you lose a net contributor you need to find another way to make up those net contributions.
they would have to if they wanted to sell to the EU - so certainly all bigger companies would
all of your iso standards etc are worldwide so they will stay
environmental / workers rights etc you would hope employers would want to keep enshrined anyway
so yeah I think best practice will be to keep things as they are.
Aha, so they are not allowed to receive less?
We don't know really, I mean, yes, it changes year on year, but gradually. 2015 was, amazingly, the first time Ireland became a net contributor. Poland received €17 billion in 2014 and only gave €3.5 billion back!
EDIT: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/...-expenditure-and-contribution-by-member-state - if you want to see 2014, it's pretty interesting
That rather assumes that 1.40+ is the be-all and end-all, and represented an accurate figure. Yet for much of the past decade the numbers were significantly lower, and we managed.
The improved construction data is probably of greater importance though one would suspect. And if Philip Hammond is a bit more flexible in his approach toward government investment too...but time will tell on that head.
1.19 is still low though based on recent history
monthly averages 2014
- Jan 1.208846 – 31 days
- Feb 1.212444 – 28 days
- Mar 1.202721 – 31 days
- Apr 1.212327 – 30 days
- May 1.226344 – 31 days
- Jun 1.243819 – 30 days
- Jul 1.261286 – 31 days
- Aug 1.253805 – 31 days
- Sep 1.264659 – 30 days
- Oct 1.268438 – 31 days
- Nov 1.264519 – 30 days
- Dec 1.269781 – 31 days
- Jan 1.303933 – 31 days
- Feb 1.351052 – 28 days
- Mar 1.383091 – 31 days
- Apr 1.382265 – 30 days
- May 1.383660 – 31 days
- Jun 1.388277 – 30 days
- Jul 1.413669 – 31 days
- Aug 1.399136 – 31 days
- Sep 1.365126 – 30 days
- Oct 1.366313 – 31 days
- Nov 1.416147 – 30 days
- Dec 1.374571 – 31 days
- Jan 1.326288 – 31 days
- Feb 1.288149 – 29 days
- Mar 1.280626 – 31 days
- Apr 1.261147 – 30 days
- May 1.285265 – 31 days
- Jun 1.262239 – 30 days
- Jul 1.188076 – 31 days
- Aug 1.168319 – 31 days
- Sep 1.185640 – 2 days
As somebody who imports stuff from the continent a lot that currency fluctuation means not hiring a new chap and if it continues to the end of the year its probably letting another go
What a fecking mess. Still nobody in the government has a clue what they're doing about Brexit - no good solutions to it tbf, and still nobody in the opposition is...well, what opposition? Meanwhile foreigners are getting kickings up and down the country by people who inexplicably think Nigel Farage cares about either them or the country.
Maybe there'll be something approaching a plan by next September. And whatever it is it won't be good.
Maybe there'll be something approaching a plan by next September. And whatever it is it won't be good.
It's freedom and stuff.
Another one with the fruit fetish.
If by pay you mean tariffs then I agree that is the likely outcome (no harm in asking for free access though as a starting point) but you realise that just as the UK is made to pay through those tariffs so the UK will charge the EU for access to the UK market in reciprocity.
Since the EU does more trade in the UK market to the net surplus of 68 billion pounds than the UK does in the EU single market, it will be paying more to the UK than the UK would to the EU. Plus of course the 8 billion it saves in direct contributions.
As much as people on here talk up the negative possibilities and how weak/ i'll thought out the UK position is, and they are arguable points, the flip side has failed to dawn on the pro EU brigade.
The EU has never negotiated an exit with a net contributor who runs a trade deficit with it and has under international law an Exclusive Economic Zone extending up to 200 nautical miles from its shores.
The weapon used by the EU with Greece was its membership of the Euro whereas the UK has its own currency and it can, if it has to, lower the exchange rate to remain competitive even if tariffs are introduced.
What tariff rate would you like to see put on trade between the UK and the EU when we leave ?
If you want access to the UK market you will be subject to UK regulations, and you will probably have to accept that having voted to leave the UK is not going to allow full free movement.
Set the tariffs and lets move on.
They could leave schengen and stop them entering at their own border like the UK does. We told everyone that the countries entering the EU had limited ability to control their own borders that Schengen was a bad idea and it would lead to this. I don't see any reason to pay for another EU mistake especially one we warned everyone about at the time.
You made your own bed on this one.
That's not a problem for the EU, only the british seem to have a problem with it.
Removing Shengen will mean keeping immigrants in Italy. There's no Shengen between Libya and Italy. Should they bottle them in a country that simply cant afford the arrival of hordes of immigrants year in year out or should they let them drown instead?
The upheaval
Making it far more likley that they will buy from within the EU where there are no tarrifs. So things we want from the EU will costs more and the EU will do less business with us. Lose, lose.
We have a trade deficite and we will remain to have a trade deficite as we aren't suddeny going to start making cars and the like. We may buy less from the EU and more from other places but we will still have more or less the same deficit. The deficite isn't the UE's fault. It is because we can't compete with China et al for cheap stuff and Gemrnay and the like for quality stuff. Of course since we will no longer have free access to the massive market that is the EU our deficite may increase because our exports will decline due to higer prices when selling to the EU.
There is n flip/up side. It will be bad for the UK, bad for the EU, bad for everyone.
So what? There is no incentive for the EU to give the UK a sweet seal, rather the opposite.
Even if? It will be when unless we pay through the nose for access to the free market. And the EU isn't using threats to make us stay. They are simply going to let us exit and treat us like another non-EU nation.
It is irrelevant what I like. I assume they will be the same as for other non-EU countries.
What I would like to see is for Britain to stay in the EU on the current good deal.
Well borders have started to go back up since migrants started flowing thru Europe. Shengen when it suits, Borders when it doesn't. Mishandled consistently.
Well borders have gone back up in parts of Europe, bit unfair on the southern countries but hey, they doing well enough to take care of it
Well its textbook stuff out of the remain campaign, you'll all be 4k worse off. No we wont, its a bill for the govt to pay.
they are not and you know it. I repeat should they let them to drown? I think their idea of letting them going North is much more humane. After all it wasn't Greece who bombed Iraq Afghanistan, Libya etc and sold weapons to dictators
Earlier quote that I didn't finish writing and then accidentally posted with another reply.
What I was going to say is the the upheaval of the UK withdrawl will cost in various ways and at least in the short term someone will have to pay that and that will be thse who remain in the EU. Brexit will cost everyone, not just the UK.
The borders were raised temporarely to give Germany a breathing space. Everyone close an eye to Italy's frontiers and they do that because its the right thing to do. You cant expect Italy to carry the burden alone. We're not savages
Wrong. No decision making is dont by the EU parliament. They are only there for advisory purposes.
The real decision making goes on in the council and the comission where power is shared equally i.e. 1/28th for each member state.
Again wrong.
As of last year we paid in £12.9bn (€16bn) which is actually a lot more than 10% of the nearly €145bn EU budget.
I think we should pay up any price they ask for the access to the single market in the short to medium term. In the longer term (10+ years) the EU will fall apart or would have become a rather small portion of the world economy. you just dont realise how much the 40-50% of the non eu part of our economy suffers due to us being in the eu.
I hope not. Clearly no one can be an expert in all areas of eu regulation but from what I have seen not much of it can be called best practices.
Agree with most of this. The biggest threat to UK (and the biggest leverage for EU) in these negotiations might end up being the incompetence of UK negotiators.
Your answer is everyone in the whole world who wants to come and live in the UK let them do so because all the countries that thought schengen was a good idea were wrong and they can't control their external borders so to help them out pass the problem on to the UK who isn't in schengen because of some made up reasons.
Amazingly I don't agree with you.
That is what you are being told by the fruit fetish EU brigade but it isn't true. The UK trades at a surplus with the rest of the world on agreed terms. Only the 550 million people out of the 7 to 8 billion people who live in the world seem to think there is a problem trading and leaving it at that. The rest of the world doesn't expect us to house and employ everyone who lives in their country but would rather live in the UK.
Shengen allows immigrants who are being stuck in Italy and Greece to move elsewhere. The alternative would be to either expect these countries who already have problems of their own to take care of thousands upon thousands of immigrants, who dont want to be there, there's no future for them there and will cause havoc because of it. This will lead to overcrowded detention centers which will resemble the boer concentration camps. Else we can let people die at sea.
Ultimately immigrants will find a way to smuggle themselves in any country and if the neighbouring country is overwhelmed then it wont give a toss about the Dublin regulation or any regulation really. Unless you're ready to fire on them or let them drown then you simply have to take care of them.
Countries need to learn that when they sell weapons to dictators or arm terrorists or bomb a country there will be consequences. Its unfair to expect others to carry all the burden on their behalf
I dont think Scengan allows migrants to move across borders, they'd do it whether there was a border or not. There is no Schengan between Libya and Italy but they still cross the sea. Schengan is not the cause of the refugee crisis
So you are saying hopes of reaching germany and other countries in northern europe has nothing to do with their decision to travel? A bit far fetched that.
There aren't even coming to the UK.
You are on a trade surplus with the rest of the world because the freakin' rest of the world, like Africa or South America, doesn't really produce anything. YOu have a deficit with the EU because countries like France, Germany or even Italy have a much stronger industry than the UK.
They would still come. Not even a wall will keep them out. Unless you are ready to shoot them, they will come.
Whether there was a border or not they'd have travelled
The commission does not set the rules it approves and publishes them and sets the laws, parliament debates them and votes on them before they are put before the commission so in essence the commission is basically the rubber stamp or the veto which I mentioned. The power of every nation state to veto a rule was the reason the panic stirred up in the debate over TTIP was such a smokescreen.
Net not gross. I used 2014 figures as 2015s are still only an estimate but the figure of £12.9bn was our contribution less our rebate, it fails to account for the £4.4bn that we got back in grants, research funds and industry payments from the EU.
Pay any price asked to maintain business as usual despite the uncertainty of the future. If you genuinely believe the EU will fall apart in 10 years, then why the mad scramble to get out, it wasn't like we were tied to the Euro or anything. Do tell me how much our non EU trade suffers due to our EU membership, I'd love to hear some precise examples of deals we were missing out on because of the Brussels bureaucracy, let's hear them all, go bananas
Yeah, we'll maintain the best practices like safe design etc but without European oversight we'll allow our trade partners to trickle substandard and potentially dangerous materials into the UK, Cameron was already doing that with Chinese steel behind the EU's back prior to the vote anyway and I'm sure whatever form of TTIP Boris signs will ride roughshod over our regulations on GM, food ingredients etc. I'm sure we'll see more curbs on workers rights and the like as well but not because the tories don't care about the common man of course, just as an encouragement to big business to set up home here to create jobs in an environment where our exploitation is permitted provided it's for the greater good.
The ones in Calais are trying pretty hard I would say and that is what we were talking about.
The deficit with the EU is because of restrictions on financial services which the EU hasn't removed.
Manufacturing in the UK has shrunk during my lifetime from over 30% of the GDP to 11%. All bar the first 8 years inside the EU project. One thing we do know for certain is that we can't halt that decline while we are inside the EU.
I'm not even sure that stopping them is a good idea but we had a vote and people say they want restrictions we are a democracy and we should be able to try. Neither you nor the EU can command otherwise the people have spoken, the bastards.
The gouverments you voted for emphasized a change to a service and financial based economy. The EU isn't to be blamed for that. Your industries downfall is entirely your own fault.
And why should we lift restrictions in financial services nobody wants to lift just because the UK wants it done? This isn't and never was Britains playground.
And how many people are in Calais? A couple of hundreds? It's a joke. Everyone wanting to leave the EU because of immigration and, most of all, refugees is just absolutely stupid. It's a non-issue.
On that first point you don't have to but it will be a negotiation... I suspect industry pressure will be to avoid relocation costs so perhaps opening it up with a small levy would suit all parties - perhaps not but as I say it's a point for negation
On the second I think its 9000 in callis but yes in the grand scheme of things it's not a huge amount
Some of the tweets from these March for Europe types can't but draw a wry smile i find. They act as if they have a monopoly on how democracy shold be expressed, or 'liberal' values. However Tim Farron and Caroline Lucas, those supposed progressives, have been sneering at the populous since the morning of June 24th.
But your initial response seemed to imply that the pound should return to a level of 1.40 or higher, rather then 1.20. I think many people would argue, and did in the past, that Sterling was overvalued throughout 2015. It is my belief, that with both greater investment from the government and the comme3ncement of formal negotiations, we shall see greater confidence in a post-Brexit economy.
But your initial response seemed to imply that the pound should return to a level of 1.40 or higher, rather then 1.20. I think many people would argue, and did in the past, that Sterling was overvalued throughout 2015. It is my belief, that with both greater investment from the government and the comme3ncement of formal negotiations, we shall see greater confidence in a post-Brexit economy.
Tories to Europe: "We don't want your filthy people on our lands but......we really love your market. Don't forget that we're open for business"
Tories to the Chinese: "We don't trust you with anything apart from you handling us your money but..........we really love your money. Don't forget that we're open to business. You owe us one after teaching you the whiff whaff"
Tories to the US "Clinton seems like a sadistic nurse while our foreign minister avoid New York because he might meet Trump there........but don't forget we're open to business. So give a kick to the backside to that part Kenyan president of yours and let us make a deal"
Tories to the Russians: "You're army is much better then ours and we're losing support from every side. Erm, can the little house elf be less of a manipulative Tyrant and accept to normalise relationship with us? Dont forget we love money and we're open to business"
Tories to India "We're open to bus..." India to the Tories "Give us back our diamond you feckin ..."
Tories to the Chinese: "We don't trust you with anything apart from you handling us your money but..........we really love your money. Don't forget that we're open to business. You owe us one after teaching you the whiff whaff"
Tories to the US "Clinton seems like a sadistic nurse while our foreign minister avoid New York because he might meet Trump there........but don't forget we're open to business. So give a kick to the backside to that part Kenyan president of yours and let us make a deal"
Tories to the Russians: "You're army is much better then ours and we're losing support from every side. Erm, can the little house elf be less of a manipulative Tyrant and accept to normalise relationship with us? Dont forget we love money and we're open to business"
Tories to India "We're open to bus..." India to the Tories "Give us back our diamond you feckin ..."
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Watched a bit of it being streamed and it was really odd. Not sure what they were ''protesting'', it seemed at best a mix between some mildly left wing ideas and Eddie Izzard talking about WW3.
So even as someone who wanted the UK to remain(I mean who willingly wants to see a country shit it's pants)it is nice to see the smugness of the likes of people at that protest yesterday be complete smashed.
Mate they called their country Great Britain, that should tell you a lot.
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The EU has hindered state action in support of industries that needed it and in the near future we can decide what to do about that for ourselves. You can start to blame the Germans for everything instead of us and our politicians can be better held to account.
No one ever said it was, and not having to put up with this kind of crap will be a big consultation.