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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

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Out of interest what would have been achieved holding a press conference where the PM of both nations is shouted down so nobody can hear anything?

Any talks of value happened before. The Luxembourg PM was just looking for brownie points with the rabid remainer crowd. Nothing more.

It's another of those small victories people are obsessed over.
 
Pexbo said:
At this point I actually think the EU's preference is for a soft Brexit. The issue of Brexit isn't going to go away and remain winning the referendum will only be viewed as 1-1 even if remain won 60/40+. If we did remain in the UK, the EU-sceptic press will just ramp up anti-EU sentiments and do their best to disrupt the EU agenda.
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Sorry, but Britain leaving the EU is a threat to the long term viability of the EU itself. The idea of the EU willingly passing up an opportunity for that to be prevented, and prevented via a democratic vote to boot, simply to keep likes of the Daily Mail and Nigel Farage quiet is fairly absurd.
 
WensleyMU said:
Out of interest what would have been achieved holding a press conference where the PM of both nations is shouted down so nobody can hear anything?

Any talks of value happened before. The Luxembourg PM was just looking for brownie points with the rabid remainer crowd. Nothing more.

It's another of those small victories people are obsessed over.
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Out of interest the only people bothered are the rabid British Brexit press how Luxembourg humiliated poor little UK. We could hear quite clearly what the Luxembourg PM was saying. Boris was supposed to announce the progress and the plan and how the people's lives who were outside would not be damaged - didn't have a lot to say, or if he had something to say and it was positive news for those people surely he would have been cheered.

Probably had nothing to say.
 
Johnson's absence was simply another way to avoid scrutiny & awkward questions... again.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Out of interest the only people bothered are the rabid British Brexit press how Luxembourg humiliated poor little UK. We could hear quite clearly what the Luxembourg PM was saying. Boris was supposed to announce the progress and the plan and how the people's lives who were outside would not be damaged - didn't have a lot to say, or if he had something to say and it was positive news for those people surely he would have been cheered.

Probably had nothing to say.
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To be fair the crowd weren't booing the Luxembourg PM were they?

Fair play, he saw an opportunity to stick the knife in.
 
WensleyMU said:
To be fair the crowd weren't booing the Luxembourg PM were they?

Fair play, he saw an opportunity to stick the knife in.
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Why should they be booing the Luxembourg PM, it's the protesters own country who have caused their problems. Johnson is supposed to be their PM as well or is he only PM to loyal Brexiters and too scared to face those he's let down.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Why should they be booing the Luxembourg PM, it's the protesters own country who have caused their problems. Johnson is supposed to be their PM as well or is he only PM to loyal Brexiters and too scared to face those he's let down.
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Which is why Johnson standing there while being booed and drowned out would have been pointless.
 
WensleyMU said:
Out of interest what would have been achieved holding a press conference where the PM of both nations is shouted down so nobody can hear anything?

Any talks of value happened before. The Luxembourg PM was just looking for brownie points with the rabid remainer crowd. Nothing more.

It's another of those small victories people are obsessed over.
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He could have raised a laugh by calling Corbyn a coward again. Given his inability to recognise irony.
 
WensleyMU said:
Which is why Johnson standing there while being booed and drowned out would have been pointless.
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You said both of them - one wasn't - if he was going to be booed he was going to be booed because he would have no good news for the people and he's threatening to leave with no deal leaving those people in limbo and actually abandoning them. If he can only speak in front of people who cheer him then he's in the wrong profession.
 
How dare those people potentially boo the Emperor's New Plan!
 
TheReligion said:
It makes us look even weaker. The plaything of the EU. Just my opinion of course but I think it's naive of people to not think the EU didn't plan or want Boris to be humiliated by the crowd.

I can't recall protests being allowed when Juncker was speaking in public amidst the abuse he was getting around climate change for example.
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Boris sure dodged that PR bullet and showed strength by running away and hiding from a few protesters shouting.
 
TheReligion said:
I'm no Boris/Tory lover but yesterday was massively set up by the EU to further humiliate the UK and the PM. Given the state of the protest, and how close it was, there was absolutely no point in holding an outdoor press conference as it would have decended into chaos. The obvious thing to do would have been to hold it inside or away from the crowd - this was rejected by opposing officials for the sole reason it wouldn't have had the desired effect they wanted.

Boris should have gone and made an effort with the protestors but certainly not held a televised press conference in front of their heckling and abuse.
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So its the EU fault that British protesters were booing their own PM?

I hope that Macron keeps his world and veto any further extensions. Europe need to a clean break from all this drama. Most European didn't vote for this mess.
 
devilish said:
So its the EU fault that British protesters were booing their own PM?

I hope that Macron keeps his world and veto any further extensions. Europe need to a clean break from all this drama. Most European didn't vote for this mess.
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To be fair most UK citizens didn't vote for it either. The country is being dragged down the toilet and made a laughing stock because of a very slim majority in an advisory referendum. And a lot of the people who did vote leave didn't really understand the ramifications and voted as a form of protest.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
You said both of them - one wasn't - if he was going to be booed he was going to be booed because he would have no good news for the people and he's threatening to leave with no deal leaving those people in limbo and actually abandoning them. If he can only speak in front of people who cheer him then he's in the wrong profession.
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Johnson's being there meant both would be booed. While some may have no interest in what he has to say, others might so what exactly is the booing meant to achieve?

By all accounts a request was made to move the presser. It was declined. So Johnson didn't attend.

And as stated, anything of note would have been said in the private meeting.
 
stevoc said:
Boris sure dodged that PR bullet and showed strength by running away and hiding from a few protesters shouting.
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Not sure it showed strength, but Boris did show that his ability to stop walking into elephant traps was improving, it may not last of course, but he's realised that a response to protestors who have gathered not to hear him but to jeer him, the best thing is to say nothing.
In his world he 'shot their fox'.
 
WensleyMU said:
Johnson's being there meant both would be booed. While some may have no interest in what he has to say, others might so what exactly is the booing meant to achieve?

By all accounts a request was made to move the presser. It was declined. So Johnson didn't attend.

And as stated, anything of note would have been said in the private meeting.
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Why would both be booed, the Luxembourg PM is not taking the UK protesters rights away and he wasn't booed and what's wrong with being booed, such a softie, if he was any good at being PM he should have responded to satisfy their worries but he can't.
It's obvious that Johnson has got no plan , and can't be scrutinised because he's got nothing to say.

Somehow this has turned into being the EU's fault (only in UK Brexiters eyes though) because of British protesters making a noise.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Why would both be booed, the Luxembourg PM is not taking the UK protesters rights away and he wasn't booed and what's wrong with being booed, such a softie, if he was any good at being PM he should have responded to satisfy their worries but he can't.
It's obvious that Johnson has got no plan , and can't be scrutinised because he's got nothing to say.

Somehow this has turned into being the EU's fault (only in UK Brexiters eyes though) because of British protesters making a noise.
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Because Johnson would be getting booed... It really isn't this difficult to grasp...

And where has anyone blamed the EU?
 
WensleyMU said:
Because Johnson would be getting booed... It really isn't this difficult to grasp...

And where has anyone blamed the EU?
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You keep flip-flopping between both being booed and only Johnson being booed - can't you remember what you wrote?

Oh no, Johnson might be booed - are you serious?

You obviously haven't seen the headlines on the Brexit rags.

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs/the_papers
 
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stevoc said:
Boris sure dodged that PR bullet and showed strength by running away and hiding from a few protesters shouting.
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Depends on your view on Brexit. Leave voters will present this as EU bullying their man. remain will present it as BJ running scared.

I cant stand BJ and hope he is thrown out as soon as possible. But in this instance I think what he did was perfectly reasonable. He gave his interview immediately afterwards, and explained why he did what he did, which made perfect sense.

The politicisation of every action is making everyone double down even harder on previous positions. It's becoming increasingly difficult to find the truth and make an impartial and objective analysis. For example: this specific incident is now about whether he ran away or didn't, and not about what he said.
 
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Maticmaker said:
Not sure it showed strength, but Boris did show that his ability to stop walking into elephant traps was improving, it may not last of course, but he's realised that a response to protestors who have gathered not to hear him but to jeer him, the best thing is to say nothing.
In his world he 'shot their fox'.
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sammsky1 said:
Depends on your view on Brexit. Leave voters will present this as EU bullying their man. Leave will present it as BJ running scared.

I cant stand BJ and hope he is thrown out as soon as possible. But in this instance I think what he did was perfectly reasonable. He gave his interview immediately afterwards, and explained why he did what he did, which made perfect sense.

The politicisation of every action is simply making everyone double down even harder on previous positions. It's becoming increasingly difficult to find the truth and make an impartial and objective analysis.
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To be honest i was half joking i personally don't put too much stock into this sort of PR stuff. I don't buy into the nonsense that the EU somehow orchestrated the demonstration to embarrass Johnson either. He's more than capable of doing that all on his own.

But for people that do put a lot of stock into this sort of stuff the optics of running and not facing the crowd is really no better than actually speaking in front of them.

I suppose he was in a lose/lose situation.
 
European commission spokeswoman Mina Andreeva:
"We are still waiting for concrete proposals from the UK side.

Both sides have stated that they want to have a deal. A no-deal Brexit is in nobody’s interests so clearly there is the willingness to arrive to a solution.

But, again, I think we have recalled that it’s now the UK’s responsibility to come forward with legally operational solutions that are compatible with the withdrawal agreement that are necessary in order to move the discussions forward."
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sammsky1 said:
Depends on your view on Brexit. Leave voters will present this as EU bullying their man. Leave will present it as BJ running scared.

I cant stand BJ and hope he is thrown out as soon as possible. But in this instance I think what he did was perfectly reasonable. He gave his interview immediately afterwards, and explained why he did what he did, which made perfect sense.

The politicisation of every action is making everyone double down even harder on previous positions. It's becoming increasingly difficult to find the truth and make an impartial and objective analysis. For example: this specific incident is now about whether he ran away or didn't, and not about what he said.
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Good post
 
Someone correct me if my understanding of the situation here is wrong. But if the UK leave with no deal next month, before any talks over a trade deal and a future relationship even begin. Won't the UK Government have to agree to most/all of whats in the current Withdrawal Agreement anyway?
 
I think some here fail to grasp the point. It wasn't about being booed, it would have been much much than booing - the protestors had megaphones and were being quite abusive as senior journalists present said. Boris would have been subjected to foul language and his speech mocked whatever he tried to explain.

It also doesn't make me a brexiteer for having the opinion he did the right thing in not speaking and the EU helped facilitate the chain of events so as to make a mug of him and the UK. I say that as they have done it many times during this process.

I don't think the decision to go it alone has endeared the PM of Luxembourg to anyone either. He's come across as a bit of an arse IMHO.
 
stevoc said:
Someone correct me if my understanding of the situation here is wrong. But if the UK leave with no deal next month, before any talks over a trade deal and a future relationship even begin. Won't the UK Government have to agree to most/all of whats in the current Withdrawal Agreement anyway?
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Yes, whether they agree it now or later is up to them.
 
stevoc said:
Someone correct me if my understanding of the situation here is wrong. But if the UK leave with no deal next month, before any talks over a trade deal and a future relationship even begin. Won't the UK Government have to agree to most/all of whats in the current Withdrawal Agreement anyway?
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Yeah but...*checks notes*...."we'll hold all the cards".
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Jester. Is that all you've got, Johnson misunderstood Cummings instructions, when he told him to turn green he turned yellow instead.
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It would have been pointless.

I'm bored of this petty bollocks from all sides to be perfectly frank.
 
Personally I hope that the case finds against the complaint about the proroguing of Parliament. The judiciary should stay out of politics and while most on here are desperate for the government to lose I think it would be another ominous step towards us becoming more like the US politically.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
I have no idea. Think it's supposed to be a threat and the EU will collapse and give in to all the UK's demands.
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The upshot of that implication is damning of our government. It effectively means that the EU cares more about British people's welfare than its own government does.
 
stevoc said:
So what is the point of leaving with no deal then, has anyone from the Tory or Brexit parties put forward a reason why it would be beneficial?
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The deal keeps the UK in the Single Market for now. They want out asap.

Also, from their POV they don't give a feck about the border in Ireland. They probably feel that the EU would ask Ireland to erect border checks first, to protect the Single Market, so they could play the blame game saying "the EU is the one putting up borders, not us, we're still respecting the GFA".

No deal gives them the option to go for an FTA while not having tariffs on British exports to Northern Ireland. The deal contains the backstop, which means if the UK negotiates an FTA with the EU, British exports to NI would incur tariffs for goods not covered by the FTA. Also in case where the UK deregulates its market (see chlorinated chicken) that wouldn't apply to NI since they'd be in the Single Market still.
 
stevoc said:
So what is the point of leaving with no deal then, has anyone from the Tory or Brexit parties put forward a reason why it would be beneficial?
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Some will see this as a game of bluff. You could think the EU won't do anything favourable as they don't think you'll actually leave but once you do then they might allow some small changes as money talks but EU have the 27 block to protect and could just watch how the UK does and get on with their project.

Also the EU will be forced to put up a hard border in Ireland, would be interesting to see how they handle it if UK were to leave on the 31st.

We don't even have a deal yet. We have a withdrawal agreement and there could be many problems down the line once trade is talked about with all 27 chipping in. France will want full access to UK waters. The EU will have the UK over a barrel in the trade talks so we should remain and be a full member.

The best way to leave and honour the vote would be retreating to a temporary Norway deal for 5+ years , set up trade deals then leave fully. We could be 3 years in trade talks already and if we have another extension it would be almost 4 years since the vote with nothing done.

I don't want to leave but leave has always meant leave. If you leave you expect to do your own trade deals, you expect FoM to end and not be subject to EU laws. Any kind of soft brexit means you accept FoM, or give up any chance to do your own deals and be subject to EU laws and the EU were never going to be nice and undermine themselves.

Best to remain, have a say, keep the vetos, have the freedom of moving around Europe. The 9-10 billion we pay is not much at all. NHS costs over a 110 billion a year to run last I looked.
 
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SteveJ said:
Johnson's absence was simply another way to avoid scrutiny & awkward questions... again.
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Yeah but watch out Steve because Boris is a big tough guy, not suffering fools. You better watch out, Beadle's about etc.
 
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