Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
711 said:
Unfortunately commuter networks require large subsidies themselves, as everyone wants to use them for the same two hours in the morning and two hours at tea time, leaving an intensive network relatively unused for the rest of the time. Obviously you can gain some extra revenue with cheaper offers at off-peak times, and believe it or not the railway companies have quite sophisticated systems for working out how to maximise this, but the core of the problem remains.
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France pays something like 13 billion a year. Totally worth it though, French trains are a delight.
 
MadMike said:
I'm gonna go back into the housing market example....

You bought a house. The house price can go up or down, like a company share. It's an investment and it has a risk, it's dependent on the local housing market. You could lose money when you sell it.

The state comes and takes your house by force at below market price and doesn't even pay you cash but in instalments, over time. Can you see how that is entirely different, uncorrelated risk from the house market risk?
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I understand the analogy mate my point is any investment is a risk, people could buy shares in a company that goes bust and they end up with nothing. This in simple terms is similar in that you invest hoping to make money but you are aware you could end up losing it because of a whole host of different circumstances.

If one of those circumstances happens to be government needing to nationalize a company or service like rail then it would unfortunate if shareholders lose money but thats part and parcel of investing.

MadMike said:
Not really a thing that happens very often at all. You can have a look at the history of nationalisations in Europe. Apart from Mitterands nationalisations in the 80s (which 2 years later got reversed) there's really not any examples of States taking back businesses unless it was to save them from financial trouble (2008-10 examples aplenty)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nationalizations_by_country

But again, there's nothing weird or wrong in re-nationalising companies. It's under what circumstances and how you do it. A government that forcibly takes profit-making businesses into public ownership, is an untrustworthy government and you simply don't invest in that country again. And the UK will need investors after Brexit.
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Yeah its definitely a rare occurrence these days mate but however rare it is, the fact remains its still always a possibility. And as i said people will be or should be aware of that risk before investing in a formerly state owned company.
 
Penna said:
For the railways, making money on the busy commuter lines should be ploughed straight back into improving services in rural areas and making sure there's a truly national rail network. That would come under "efficiency" for me.
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There's 17 different franchisees managing different parts of the network. Therefore profits in one area are not transferred to another. That's one of the problems I mentioned about the current method of management.

A study by think-tank IPPR North found more than half of the UK’s total spending on transport networks is invested in London. An estimated £1,943 is spent per person in the English capital on current or planned projects, compared with just £427 in the North.
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And the fact remains that if we want good, modern rail service we'll have to pay a lot more than we currently do. Whether it's via rail fees or tax subsidies like it happens in France as per @Kentonio's example.
 
MadMike said:
There's 17 different franchisees managing different parts of the network. Therefore profits in one area are not transferred to another. That's one of the problems I mentioned about the current method of management.

And the fact remains that if we want good, modern rail service we'll have to pay a lot more than we currently do. Whether it's via rail fees or tax subsidies like it happens in France as per @Kentonio's example.
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I strongly believe in nationalised bus and rail services (all utilities, actually, as transport is a utility). People in less-populated areas should be able to get around as easily and comfortably as people in the capital. How do we expect to get people out of cars and into public transport when it's so patchy in so many places?
 


I never realised how much the Lib Dems actually campaigned for the referendum in the first place, and now Swinson has the cheek to come out and say Cameron must never be forgiven for calling one!
 
BobbyManc said:


I never realised how much the Lib Dems actually campaigned for the referendum in the first place, and now Swinson has the cheek to come out and say Cameron must never be forgiven for calling one!
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Like the vast majority of people I have always realised the Lib Dems are a massive hypocritical joke.
 
Sassy Colin said:
Despite all the pelters Cameron gets on here, I doubt anyone would disagree with his views on the current incumbent at No 10 and his most trusted servants.
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Of course not. Doesn't mean he fecked up right royally by using a referendum for internal party political reasons and we all got bitten in the arse by it.
 
Penna said:
I strongly believe in nationalised bus and rail services (all utilities, actually, as transport is a utility). People in less-populated areas should be able to get around as easily and comfortably as people in the capital. How do we expect to get people out of cars and into public transport when it's so patchy in so many places?
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Even nationalised industries need to either make a profit, or at least break even, if not then someone somewhere is carrying an unfair burden. The secret isn't nationalisation, its knowing how to meet the demand for a service or industry that has major variations across the country or, in its base customer requirements.

Over my lifetime its arguably been shown that Governments are not the best people at doing this (e.g. can't even sort out Brexit!!)
 
Has the Lib Dems altered the voting dynamics at the next GE by coming out with a revoke policy? Strikes me that it would be very damaging for Labour, as now an election becomes virtually a Referendum itself with Tories or Brexity Party for Brexit and Lib Dems for Remain as the two polar choices. I can't see why now a Remainer would choose Labour over Libs. But also any Leaver would now no longer be looking at either Lib or Lab and be forced to choose Tories or Brexit Party. So Labour lose both Remainers and Leavers. Strikes me this is a recipe for a Tory majority.
 
WensleyMU said:
Like the vast majority of people I have always realised the Lib Dems are a massive hypocritical joke.
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Bring back Vince Cable, at least the Lib-dems can blame this stupidity on him reaching his dotage.
The LD party got slated for changing its mind on Tution fees, but at least it was the smaller party in a coalition Government, its now changing its mind to attract carpetbagging former Tory MPs. Does Swinson seriously believe she will drag more than a handful of remainers from Labour, any she gets from Tories won't be enough!
 
OohAahMartial said:
Has the Lib Dems altered the voting dynamics at the next GE by coming out with a revoke policy? Strikes me that it would be very damaging for Labour, as now an election becomes virtually a Referendum itself with Tories or Brexity Party for Brexit and Lib Dems for Remain as the two polar choices. I can't see why now a Remainer would choose Labour over Libs. But also any Leaver would now no longer be looking at either Lib or Lab and be forced to choose Tories or Brexit Party. So Labour lose both Remainers and Leavers. Strikes me this is a recipe for a Tory majority.
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You have to look at the seats to draw such a conclusion and largely the lib dems aren't going to suddenly take random seats. Nor is everyone going to vote on brexit lines. They don't expect a majority.

Obviously they've chosen this path because it works for them strategically but it's not a very lib dem like approach at all. They've spent years saying younger voters should get a say and that FPTP is unfair yet they'll now supposedly use it to give themselves a direct mandate rather than a fairer approach of every vote counting and legislating for 16 and 17 year olds to get the vote. If they won a majority surely remain would win a referendum anyway and if they're not confident of that then it isn't democratic is it?
 
LuisNaniencia said:
I find myself wondering would it have been best if May's deal went through. No one would have been "happy", but all sides may have been content enough to move on.

I can't see this issue ever going away if we leave with no deal or if we don't leave at all.
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We may well see it make a reappearance - it seems that a flaw in the "Benn Act" (an Act specifically designed to stop No Deal), actually leaves a clear pathway to No Deal.

https://waitingfortax.com/2019/09/15/the-flaw-in-the-benn-act/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

One assumes that Johnson and his advisers are fully aware of this flaw.
 
Well its safe to say the Lib Dems are no longer irrelevant judging by the effort going into trying to discredit them lately.
 
BobbyManc said:


I never realised how much the Lib Dems actually campaigned for the referendum in the first place, and now Swinson has the cheek to come out and say Cameron must never be forgiven for calling one!
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If memory serves they wanted a referendum to confirm that being in Europe was both democratic and still in our best interests, but that they would campaign for Remain. Hard not to see that as a good idea in hindsight to be honest.
 
Penna said:
I strongly believe in nationalised bus and rail services (all utilities, actually, as transport is a utility). People in less-populated areas should be able to get around as easily and comfortably as people in the capital. How do we expect to get people out of cars and into public transport when it's so patchy in so many places?
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I don't think many people would be against the idea.

The problem is that if you want an efficient system someone has to pay for it, just like everything else. If people's memories are long enough, British Rail were atrocious , the service was poor, lines were closed because they didn't pay their way and it was losing a fortune nearly every year since it was nationalised back in the 40s.
Nationalising the network is not necessarily going to give a better service.
 
Looks like the Hulk ducked the press conference. The Luxembourg PM was furious.
 
Michael Deacon said:
My favourite episode of The Incredible Hulk is the one where a small group of people shouted too loudly so he ran away.
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Paul the Wolf said:
I don't think many people would be against the idea.

The problem is that if you want an efficient system someone has to pay for it, just like everything else. If people's memories are long enough, British Rail were atrocious , the service was poor, lines were closed because they didn't pay their way and it was losing a fortune nearly every year since it was nationalised back in the 40s.
Nationalising the network is not necessarily going to give a better service.
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Yup, people have very short memories.
 
As I’ve pointed out before, privatization of railways can work. Just check out the example of Japan, everything you can ask for and more due to the privatization.
 
British rail is like bingo for nationalisation. Well done for thinking of an example that didn't work, remember that argument where we all said nationalisation works every time and has always done so? No me neither
 


It's nice to see Kuennsberg performing admirably in her role as Johnson's new head of communications the BBC's political editor.
 
Sassy Colin said:
Yup, people have very short memories.
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Remembering Dr Beeching and why he was asked to 'sort things'?

I suppose its true if you stand still long enough everything comes around again. Back to the future, nationalise the Railways... what next rationing books? Oh no, that might happen if we can't get fresh food after Brexit, especially if remainer subs are patrolling the Atlantic, torpedo's at the ready! That's a point, do we still have a Merchant Navy?
 
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