Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[WensleyMU]

If the Supreme Court rules in favour of the Scottish Courts, does that change the constitution, based on the precedent set?

What potential consequences could that have in future. Not the hear and now, but for future proroguing, beyond brexit?

 

[RedTiger]

And just when you think things couldn't get even more ricockulous

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/bor...ireland-scotland-brexit-backstop-issue-plans/



And if you're thinking to yourself is this as stupid as it sounds then yes, yes it is...

That's amazing.

 

[SteveJ]

I wonder if the information the government are obliged to release by 11pm tonight might have an impact on Tuesday's ruling?

 

[Fingeredmouse]

If the Supreme Court rules in favour of the Scottish Courts, does that change the constitution, based on the precedent set?

What potential consequences could that have in future. Not the hear and now, but for future proroguing, beyond brexit?

A legal precedent stating don't prorogue on false pretences hardly seems a poor legal precedent to set. Having no purpose built formal written constitution results in the UK relying on the honourable actions of Govt. A legal precedent potentially preventing a deliberate attempt to shut down parliamentary debate seems no bad thing, especially if it results in Parliamentary self regulation by passing an act preventing a repeat of this nonsense.

Edit: Also, despite this being explained multiple times in this thread this ruling has nothing at all, whatsoever, with Scottish vs English courts

 

[owlo]

If the Supreme Court rules in favour of the Scottish Courts, does that change the constitution, based on the precedent set?

What potential consequences could that have in future. Not the hear and now, but for future proroguing, beyond brexit?

????????

They wouldn't be ruling 'in favour of the Scottish courts' - There is no 'England vs Scotland' court matchup going on.

 

[WensleyMU]

New Polls out

Yougov

Voting Intention: Con 32%, Lab 23%, Lib Dem 19%, Brex 14% (9-10 Sep)

Westminster Voting Intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 24% (-4)
LDM: 20% (+5)
BXP: 7% (+2)
GRN: 3% (=)
UKIP: 1% (+1)
CHUK: 1% (=)

Via
@KantarTNS
, 5-9 Sep.

 

[SteveJ]

Being far too busy for the real thing, Johnson's about to begin a ''People's PMQs' on sodding Facebook.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

New Polls out

Yougov

Voting Intention: Con 32%, Lab 23%, Lib Dem 19%, Brex 14% (9-10 Sep)

Westminster Voting Intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 24% (-4)
LDM: 20% (+5)
BXP: 7% (+2)
GRN: 3% (=)
UKIP: 1% (+1)
CHUK: 1% (=)

Via
@KantarTNS
, 5-9 Sep.

This poll only covers England I assume?

 

[WensleyMU]

????????

They wouldn't be ruling 'in favour of the Scottish courts' - There is no 'England vs Scotland' court matchup going on.

The two high courts are at odds with each other. One says legal, the other illegal.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

The two high courts are at odds with each other. One says legal, the other illegal.

He drew you a diagram, with a cat.

 

[WensleyMU]

This poll only covers England I assume?

Yes.

For Scotland

SNP 52%
Con 19%
LD 11%
Lab 8%
BXP 7%
Green 3%

 

[owlo]

The two high courts are at odds with each other. One says legal, the other illegal.

Technically yes, but both essentially just kicked it up to the SC. The judgment today from the CoS is surprising, but doesn't really change anything as it was always going to be decided by the SC. (Worth mentioning that in the English system we are skipping a step; the equivalent to the CoS would be the Court of Appeal, but the High Court gave permission for a direct appeal to the Supreme Court.

Lower Courts *generally* don't step out of line and set far reaching precedent before it reaches the SC. This is why the decision today was surprising. They could have quite easily rejected the appeal and kicked it up to the SC to decide without making waves.

 

[Smores]

If the Supreme Court rules in favour of the Scottish Courts, does that change the constitution, based on the precedent set?

What potential consequences could that have in future. Not the hear and now, but for future proroguing, beyond brexit?

For future proroguing not much beyond "don't be a cnut" with it.

If the Tories don't a majority then i feel like we might see some new laws around it anyway. There's no reason for a proroguing ever to go beyond a week and if it does then it should have to be approved by parliament.

We shouldn't have such extensive executive or royal powers in my opinion. The people are the only ones who need to hold the commons to account.

 

[WensleyMU]

He drew you a diagram, with a cat.

Lovely cat it was to.

But the English and Welsh high court says it was legal. The Scottish high court say it was not. Which is clearly contradictory.

 

[Ekkie Thump]

The issue is that Scots Law doesn't always apply to the UK.

However after much checking, it appears that the supreme court will rule whether the Scottish court applied Scots Law correctly, not whether Johnson acted illegally.

I suspect they will rule in favour.

The issue then may be that they could rule in favour of the Scottish courts, but against Gina Miller's case. Although I had seen some state that the supreme court will see these cases together, as one.

If it takes the appeals separately, but on the same day, could it be ruled that he acted both legally and illegally, depending on the judgement.

Right now we already have one court saying he did act legally, while another says he didn't, which overruled a lower court which also said he did.

I would have thought, but am not certain, that an action that pertains to whole of the UK would have to be legal in all parts of it in order to proceed. Since Scotland is supposed to be a co-equal member of the Union there is no reason English/Welsh law should take precedence in matters that affect both, rather a contravention of one should amount to a contravention of the whole. If the Supreme Court finds that the Scottish judgement is correct in law it should follow that the Government's prorogation is ultimately illegal irrespective of its decision in the Miller case.

 

[SteveJ]

Jesus, this virtual PMQs stuff is stage-managed:

Q Boris, my mum thinks yur grate.
A Good show, old thing, what what.

 

[owlo]

Those polling results are fecking weird haha. Dunno what on earth Yougov are doing wrong, but it's something bad.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Yes.

For Scotland

SNP 52%
Con 19%
LD 11%
Lab 8%
BXP 7%
Green 3%

I know there's a fair number of tossers in my country but how anyone can vote for the Tories in Scotland of all places just amazes me. It had to be dodgy polling there.

Jesus, this virtual PMQs stuff is stage-managed:

Q Boris, my mum thinks yur grate.
A Good show, old thing, what what.

The only PMQs I want to see from now involves a Thunderdome.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Q: Are you planning to leave without a deal?

Johnson says staying in the EU would cost £250m a week. That’s £1bn a month. Think how you could spent the money. Let’s get our priorities right, and get this thing done.

So he's knocked off £100m a week from the bus - only has to knock another £100m off and he'll have the right figure.

 

[Abizzz]

Q: Are you planning to leave without a deal?

Johnson says staying in the EU would cost £250m a week. That’s £1bn a month. Think how you could spent the money. Let’s get our priorities right, and get this thing done.

So he's knocked off £100m a week from the bus - only has to knock another £100m off and he'll have the right figure.

If a september 2019 £ was worth as much as a may 2016 £.

 

[WensleyMU]

I know there's a fair number of tossers in my country but how anyone can vote for the Tories in Scotland of all places just amazes me. It had to be dodgy polling there.


The only PMQs I want to see from now involves a Thunderdome.

At a guess it will be pro Union Scots who see Scottish Labour as a bad joke.

Everyone sees Scottish Labour as a bad joke though.

 

[WensleyMU]

Those polling results are fecking weird haha. Dunno what on earth Yougov are doing wrong, but it's something bad.

Ultimately it will come down to how many Tory remained jump ship to the Lib Dems and how many Labour leavers jump to the Tory's.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

At a guess it will be pro Union Scots who see Scottish Labour as a bad joke.

Everyone sees Scottish Labour as a bad joke though.

My constituency is ripe for the picking for the SNP. Labour won it in 2017 with a swing of 9% but a majority of us 300. It'll lose that one for sure. Incredible since it was a Labour stronghold for many years (crooked as feck Labour councils over the years as well though which also came to bite them in the ass).

Labour got their stance completely wrong in Scotland and still do. They basically act like they don't care about the country. At least the Scottish Tories made an effort to separate themselves from the Westminster Tories.

We're a sensitive bunch up here, we like to feel like we're special.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

If a september 2019 £ was worth as much as a may 2016 £.

Yes, In theory it should cost more now because of the devaluation of the pound since 2016.

 

[SteveJ]

this effort made Johnson look like some second-rate despot holed up in his bunker, terrified of an actual encounter with his people.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

Unsure if you're being deliberately obtuse here or are just absolutely clueless yet running your mouth. I suspect the former, but will explain as if it's the latter and you are some toddler that is incapable of using google.

The Scottish courts are split into 2 sections. Ditto to tribunals. One handles Scottish matters, and the other (Under the authority of the Court of Session) matters for the whole UK. These decisions can be appealed to the Court of session. They can then be appealed to the UK supreme court if the court allows leave to appeal. I'll even draw you a nice 'WensleyMU friendly chart.'

rekt.

 

[finneh]

Would you say what your occupation is?

I run my own company.

 

[DOTA]

I know there's a fair number of tossers in my country but how anyone can vote for the Tories in Scotland of all places just amazes me. It had to be dodgy polling there.

Tories polling at 19% is a significant improvement on your tosser count. 28.6% of voters in Scotland voted Tory in 2017.

 

[owlo]

Ultimately it will come down to how many Tory remained jump ship to the Lib Dems and how many Labour leavers jump to the Tory's.

Sorry, didn't make my post clear. There is something badly wrong with the methodology or they are using outdated survey results to make up the poll. Strongly suspect somebody has been slacking and published surveys from 3-4th as from later.

A 11 point lead is laughable; other public polls as well as a few private ones have them on a 1-3 point lead. A spread between 30-29-(17) and 31-27-(20)

 

[Mr Pigeon]

I run my own company.

Do you sell chlorinated chicken?

 

[Maticmaker]

If the Supreme Court rules in favour of the Scottish Courts, does that change the constitution, based on the precedent set?

What potential consequences could that have in future. Not the hear and now, but for future proroguing, beyond brexit?

There is a whole host of issues arising now where a written constitution would have helped. Making it up as you go along or what is called setting a precedent looks to be dead in the water once this issue is settled (if it ever is?).

You can image a situation whenever a future Government introduces something the opposition doesn't like there may well be a rush to involve the Courts because the Government said one thing and then did another, Judges will be asked to rule on whether this misled parliament deliberately!
How can you tell when a politician is telling the truth/being honest/means what s/he says, will become the new focus for charades, not at parties , but in the House of Commons. Following judgments from the courts I wonder, as in other cases, if costs will be calculated and awarded once the courts decision is 'squared off' at the Supreme Court, and will the Supreme Court's authority still be underpinned/undermined by the Crown, if the Crown (in the person of the sitting Monarch) is involved in the controversy?

There is no doubt we are in a peculiar situation, there is no real precedent for something like Brexit; however the mess we are in is one completely of Parliaments own making and our representatives have forgotten the Denis Healy law on hole digging... "when you find you are digging a hole for your self, the first thing to do is to stop digging". Afraid this advice is falling on deaf ears in the Palace of Westminster!

God knows what the political mix of our next Parliament will be and our long suffering people/businesses will be scratching their heads wondering about going to hell in a hand cart, especially when some Political Parties appear to be facing both ways at once, some parties are one defined by one topic only, every political leader is now employing a 'Machiavelli' type figure as their advisor, the Speaker of the House is no longer seen as a neutral figure... where is Guy Fawkes when you need him?

 

[DOTA]

New Polls out

Yougov

Voting Intention: Con 32%, Lab 23%, Lib Dem 19%, Brex 14% (9-10 Sep)

Westminster Voting Intention:

CON: 38% (-4)
LAB: 24% (-4)
LDM: 20% (+5)
BXP: 7% (+2)
GRN: 3% (=)
UKIP: 1% (+1)
CHUK: 1% (=)

Via
@KantarTNS
, 5-9 Sep.

As the owl was saying, this was done over pretty much the same period.

 

[finneh]

Do you sell chlorinated chicken?

No but if it were cheaper than the chicken currently sold in supermarkets I'd quite like to buy some.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Tories polling at 19% is a significant improvement on your tosser count. 28.6% of voters in Scotland voted Tory in 2017.

Yeah but Ruth Davidson hadn't been found out at that point I think.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

No but if it were cheaper than the chicken currently sold in supermarkets I'd quite like to buy some.

I'd try it to see what it's like. Can't be worse than a Fray Bentos steak and kidney pudding

 

[Grinner]

I'd try it to see what it's like. Can't be worse than a Fray Bentos steak and kidney pudding

US chicken is not good. I just finished off some eggs that were really insipid, barely yellow yolks. The beef is terrible too. The food in Europe is so much tastier and cheaper.

 

[DOTA]

Yeah but Ruth Davidson hadn't been found out at that point I think.

I'm not convinced she ever was found out. Higher percentage of Scots voted Tory than the rest of the UK in the EU elections this year. I'm relieved she's gone.

 

[JPRouve]

US chicken is not good. I just finished off some eggs that were really insipid, barely yellow yolks. The beef is terrible too. The food in Europe is so much tastier and cheaper.

I don't get how a country that basically revolves around food, can have basic things like beef labelled as terrible. That's counter intuitive.

 

[Cheesy]

I know there's a fair number of tossers in my country but how anyone can vote for the Tories in Scotland of all places just amazes me. It had to be dodgy polling there.

Considering the UK membership have stated actively they will give up the union for Brexit at this point, being a unionist Scottish Tory is essentially a paradoxical anachronism. You're literally helping advance a party who don't care about the union any longer.

 

[finneh]

US chicken is not good. I just finished off some eggs that were really insipid, barely yellow yolks. The beef is terrible too. The food in Europe is so much tastier and cheaper.

That should be for capitalist forces to decide, not a protectionist racket.

If chlorinated chicken were more expensive and tasted worse it wouldn't sell. If Argentinian beef were twice the cost (no tariffs) but much better quality consumers would decide whether it was worth the extra cost.