Surely today deserves a thread title update change?!
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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Someone ELI5 please what all happened today in UK politics? I tried to keep up/continue to make sense of it but not knowing all the dynamics and names involved I kinda lost track of it all. Ty.
Britain is on the way to becoming the 51st state of the US
The Guardian view on Boris Johnson’s strategy: split party, divide country, win election
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ategy-split-party-divide-country-win-election
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ategy-split-party-divide-country-win-election
The Guardian view on Boris Johnson’s strategy: split party, divide country, win election
Editorial
Tue 3 Sep 2019 22.36 BST
The prime minister intuitively understands that hard-Brexit chaos will sustain his premiership. He must be stopped
The defeat of Boris Johnson’s government by the opposition and 21 of his own MPs is the first shot in a battle for the soul of the Conservative party. Six weeks after he took office, the prime minister looks certain to be forced by law to break his promise to leave the European Union by 31 October, “do or die”.
The implications for the Tory party are likely to be more significant than for Mr Johnson. The rebels will be purged from the party, by having the whip withdrawn and being prevented from standing as Tory candidates in the next election. The argument over Brexit raging in the Tory party might see the kind of split that followed Robert Peel’s 1846 repeal of the Corn Laws.
Mr Johnson acts as if he wants such a schism, to seal his hostile takeover of the Tory party. The scale and pace of his power grab might astonish outsiders, but no one within the party should be surprised. In June the votes of 92,000 Tory members elected Mr Johnson, a no-dealer, to the party leadership. A month later he made it clear that only no-dealers could sit round the cabinet table. Mr Johnson has lost his majority in parliament, but he has strengthened his hold on his party.
Now the Conservative party will be shorn of critics, allowing Mr Johnson to campaign in a forthcoming election – if he can engineer one – with a pledge to reverse any law that prevents a no-deal Brexit on 31 October. For Mr Johnson the incarnation of the Tory party under Theresa May was weak. Weak in spirit, in manner and in appearance. This would not do, he reasoned, for a country that was hurt, angry and scared. Mr Johnson’s response was to adopt the Trumpian tactic of goading opponents to energise his supporters.
The prime minister wants to whip up as much indignation among leave voters as he can. It is a ploy to exacerbate grievances so that he can fight this base’s corner in a flag-waving general election. This must happen before the consequences of a no-deal exit become obvious. To achieve this, Mr Johnson’s strategy with the European Union has been to set out conditions to renegotiate the withdrawal agreement that cannot be met. That would make a damaging no-deal Brexit inevitable.
The prime minister could then attach the blame for this outcome to his foes inside parliament and on the continent – hence his provocative and shameful descriptions of his opponents as collaborators who would “surrender” the UK’s sovereignty. This unholy mixture of political opportunism and misguided ideology has been driving Britain towards a geopolitical precipice.
If Britain leaves the EU without a deal, there will be economic chaos; those who suffer most will be the very people who voted for Brexit as an act of defiance. It is no surprise that Mr Johnson now talks about cutting the cost of living, aware no doubt that the Brexit-fuelled depreciation of the pound disproportionately affects the poor by pushing up the prices of food and fuel.
Mr Johnson’s pitch will be an update of the populism that William Hague road-tested in 2001: that the people are being betrayed by a “liberal elite” who wilfully ignore their concerns about foreigners and the threat posed by the EU, which unattended would see the UK becoming “a foreign land”.
Yet even Mr Hague did not believe that pooling sovereignty with European partners would undermine our own and remove our right to cut regulation or get the best out of trade deals with the rest of the world. Mr Hague wanted a culture war with Europe, not an economic one. Mr Johnson wants both.
This is how far the baleful virus of Europhobic populism has spread. It will keep the nation bitterly divided, even where considerable agreement once existed. Mr Johnson intuitively understands that turmoil will sustain his premiership – to the extent that there is no part of government that he will not burn down on behalf of the governed to keep himself in office. That is why he must be stopped.
Editorial
Tue 3 Sep 2019 22.36 BST
The prime minister intuitively understands that hard-Brexit chaos will sustain his premiership. He must be stopped
The defeat of Boris Johnson’s government by the opposition and 21 of his own MPs is the first shot in a battle for the soul of the Conservative party. Six weeks after he took office, the prime minister looks certain to be forced by law to break his promise to leave the European Union by 31 October, “do or die”.
The implications for the Tory party are likely to be more significant than for Mr Johnson. The rebels will be purged from the party, by having the whip withdrawn and being prevented from standing as Tory candidates in the next election. The argument over Brexit raging in the Tory party might see the kind of split that followed Robert Peel’s 1846 repeal of the Corn Laws.
Mr Johnson acts as if he wants such a schism, to seal his hostile takeover of the Tory party. The scale and pace of his power grab might astonish outsiders, but no one within the party should be surprised. In June the votes of 92,000 Tory members elected Mr Johnson, a no-dealer, to the party leadership. A month later he made it clear that only no-dealers could sit round the cabinet table. Mr Johnson has lost his majority in parliament, but he has strengthened his hold on his party.
Now the Conservative party will be shorn of critics, allowing Mr Johnson to campaign in a forthcoming election – if he can engineer one – with a pledge to reverse any law that prevents a no-deal Brexit on 31 October. For Mr Johnson the incarnation of the Tory party under Theresa May was weak. Weak in spirit, in manner and in appearance. This would not do, he reasoned, for a country that was hurt, angry and scared. Mr Johnson’s response was to adopt the Trumpian tactic of goading opponents to energise his supporters.
The prime minister wants to whip up as much indignation among leave voters as he can. It is a ploy to exacerbate grievances so that he can fight this base’s corner in a flag-waving general election. This must happen before the consequences of a no-deal exit become obvious. To achieve this, Mr Johnson’s strategy with the European Union has been to set out conditions to renegotiate the withdrawal agreement that cannot be met. That would make a damaging no-deal Brexit inevitable.
The prime minister could then attach the blame for this outcome to his foes inside parliament and on the continent – hence his provocative and shameful descriptions of his opponents as collaborators who would “surrender” the UK’s sovereignty. This unholy mixture of political opportunism and misguided ideology has been driving Britain towards a geopolitical precipice.
If Britain leaves the EU without a deal, there will be economic chaos; those who suffer most will be the very people who voted for Brexit as an act of defiance. It is no surprise that Mr Johnson now talks about cutting the cost of living, aware no doubt that the Brexit-fuelled depreciation of the pound disproportionately affects the poor by pushing up the prices of food and fuel.
Mr Johnson’s pitch will be an update of the populism that William Hague road-tested in 2001: that the people are being betrayed by a “liberal elite” who wilfully ignore their concerns about foreigners and the threat posed by the EU, which unattended would see the UK becoming “a foreign land”.
Yet even Mr Hague did not believe that pooling sovereignty with European partners would undermine our own and remove our right to cut regulation or get the best out of trade deals with the rest of the world. Mr Hague wanted a culture war with Europe, not an economic one. Mr Johnson wants both.
This is how far the baleful virus of Europhobic populism has spread. It will keep the nation bitterly divided, even where considerable agreement once existed. Mr Johnson intuitively understands that turmoil will sustain his premiership – to the extent that there is no part of government that he will not burn down on behalf of the governed to keep himself in office. That is why he must be stopped.
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So its basically Johnson doing to the Torries what Trump did to the Republicans.
The two are tight.
As 100% certain Trump is sending hourly messages and phoning once a day to tutor his young hopeful jedi.
Yeah, this is thoroughly confusing for someone acquainted with a a presidential based government.
If Labour votes against an election, and the no no-deal bill passes, then presumably BJ has to go back to EU asking for an extension? Wouldn’t that lose him many hardcore no deal BrExit voters?
A GE is certainly coming in next months, so if above is true, Corbyn should manipulate events to do most damage to BJ’s base before he agrees to it.
Keep a lame duck government in place for a little while longer, just for the lolz
A GE is certainly coming in next months, so if above is true, Corbyn should manipulate events to do most damage to BJ’s base before he agrees to it.
Keep a lame duck government in place for a little while longer, just for the lolz
I'd imagine the people working at Fox news don't share my opinions about Fox news either... That doesn't change my observations.
Don't know what you are observing then
It's the Steve Bannon play book, to get the society you want, you have to break the one you have.
It’s divide and conquer tactics, nothing new.
A lot of the reaction surprises me. This was Cummings’s plan, now they want a general election pitching Corbyn as the anti-democracy candidate. My guess is their plan is to a majority to get their own fudge through.
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Surely now with Boris' numbers down to 289 a GNU with Labour/SNP/Lib Dems and independent MPs could be formed?
Not likely as Swinson doesn't want to work with Corbyn, but at a time of national crisis....
Not likely as Swinson doesn't want to work with Corbyn, but at a time of national crisis....
Would be hilarious to see all his scheming fall apart like that.
Lest we forget!
Am I wrong to think Rees-Mogg might have seriously damaged his career doing that?
I know it seems trivial, but its the sort of thing that people lose votes over in this day and age
I know it seems trivial, but its the sort of thing that people lose votes over in this day and age
Above anything else, it looks bloody uncomfortable
That depends...
Firstly you could possibly get an election in before the date he has to go back
Secondly people are already talking that it may be totally legal for him to go and ask for the extension... And if all 27 other countries approve it he could still use the UK veto and reject his own request... That would be very popular with the gammon vote
Then sit back and watch the effects of no deal rip the tory vote to shreds for a decade or more whilst Boris bumbles around with no majority, unable to get anything done. Must be at least a somewhat attractive proposition to Corbyn. 6 months later he could call one and get a huge majority.
And who knows what has happened to his party than Ken.
Yes he is old school but nothing wrong with that. At least him and the rebels have stood up for what they believe. Well done to them all.
I am afraid that Boris has much to learn. The biggest being not to use fear and bully boy tactics and use logic and reason to win your argument.
I thought Rees-Mogg's performance yesterday was pretty brilliant when you consider the audience he was pitching to. He saved Boris really. I think they absolutely wanted every one to be retweeting that picture and the left/remain faction are falling into the trap.
Brexit is a culture war and the Tories have now fully embraced that. Rees-Mogg's intended audience will just interpret as him sticking it to parliament as they try to subvert democracy.
Bloody good job. His performance yesterday was abysmal. And that is putting it mildly.
He can't veto it. May wasn't even allowed in the room when she went back for an extension.
All of this is straight out of the Bannon playbook. Another ge when it comes will be a nasty affair. Vote leave broke laws last time and faced no consequences, imagine what they will do now.
Could easily lose his seat in the oncoming chaos. They'll be targeting it if they get any sort of loose alliance going.
Sure, all bets are off here I guess. God only knows what will happen in a GE. I think Boris's team have gone for a high risk strategy to get to either get a majority to get his own fudge through or failing that, to have a mandate for no deal. It's probably the only thing that they realistically could do given the circumstances.
Flying clothesline from the top of his chair.
Yep, agree. I'm actually slowly buying sterling today though as I think 1) they've gone too far. 2) They'll eventually get their election on 15th.
This isn't the US and FPTP isn't the electoral college. He's also kicked out some of his most recognisable lawmakers, and every day at the dispatch box or out and around more and more people can see what a bumbling fool he is. Not to mention the party itself is in flames.
So at the end of the day, it comes down to whether Corbyn and Swinson can be pragmatic enough to win. My guess is they can, maybe. Corbyn is a far better campaigner and electoral strategist than people give him credit for.
I think Corbyn's problem is that brexiteers don't trust him and neither do remainers. I think the election could come down to the swing voters that aren't swayed by the culture wars at the centre of Brexit. On the Tory side of things, Boris and JRM must have alienated, if not enraged, a fair few of them.
Brexiteers are lost now. They'll have to swing to a full on remain/peoples vote agenda. I do think that people in general don't trust Corbyn though. Can't say that I do, and I certainly don't like him.... I'd have far preferred to vote for Yvette Cooper as pm for example.
"Needs must" at the end of the day I feel will be the prevailing sentiment. And BJ has pissed off enough tories it may mean voters going for the libs/labour. Though he'll pick up some from Farage.
Starmer says Labour won't vote for a GE today
I was watching that live. Me and the missus rewound it multiple times as we were breaking ourselves laughing
Of course not. Why would they. It is all about timing.
Its all about the............. timing.