Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Flying high]

Of course, but its highly unlikely the vote will be 100% to zero in favour, so some people are going to be very unhappy and do what they deem necessary to prevent a United Ireland.

But they won't have the same easy targets as the other side have. ie border posts, british army barracks etc.

Bombing the Irish parliament or local council offices would not be tolerated by the vast majority on either side.

*edit
Just to be clear, I am sure the vast majority are against all forms of violence, whatever their background. Simply pointing out that in the eyes of some, attacking symbols of an occupying force, can be seen as less serious than other types of attack.

 

[MadMike]

Yeah, I definitely can't see Corbyn having to stand aside for some welfare bill abstaining no mark ever being used in any future election campaigning. He should definitely do it.

The fact she’s a no mark, works for him not against him. She’s not a threat. And to the extent that politics is all about spin, it will certainly be used against him pretty much like anything he does or doesn't do. But I think it'll be far more politically harmful for him if, post-VONC, he insists on being instated as PM and as a result fails to form a GNU, while the time runs out. He will be partly responsible for no-deal becoming reality while the Tories can play the blame game on him far more effectively.

Reminder that in the case of a VONC, first there's a 14-day period to form a government and win the Houses' confidence. Then there's a minimum of 25 days before an election. 25+14 = 39. If the VNOC doesn't happen this week (which it wont) then after the prorogation ends on the 14th of October there's no time left for an election before Brexit. If the VONC card is played then, it's either a GNU gets formed or no-deal Brexit happens.

 

[sammsky1]

Loose the vote... Deselect MP's... Smash Corbyn in pmq's have saj give away billions in the spending review then call an election vote... And all back to the bullingdon club for pimms on Friday

Not a bad weeks work!

 

[Dobba]

The fact she’s a no mark, works for him not against him. She’s not a threat. And to the extent that politics is all about spin, it will certainly be used against him pretty much like anything he does or doesn't do. But I think it'll be far more politically harmful for him if, post-VONC, he insists on being instated as PM and as a result fails to form a GNU, while the time runs out. He will be partly responsible for no-deal becoming reality while the Tories can play the blame game on him far more effectively.

Reminder that in the case of a VONC, first there's a 14-day period to form a government and win the Houses' confidence. Then there's a minimum of 25 days before an election. 25+14 = 39. If the VNOC doesn't happen this week (which it wont) then after the prorogation ends on the 14th of October there's no time left for an election before Brexit. If the VONC card is played then, it's either a GNU gets formed or no-deal Brexit happens.

Why frame this as 'the Tories' when you're already doing it now?

 

[MadMike]

Why frame this as 'the Tories' when you're already doing it now?

 

[sun_tzu]

So I guess they prefer thieves then.

The polling certainly indicates that to be true by a large margin

 

[esmufc07]

Anybody watching the Brexit Debate on C4?

 

[DOTA]

Bleak.

 

[SteveJ]

They never bloody change, do they?

 

[Eire Red United]

Anybody watching the Brexit Debate on C4?

That Tory MP, Redmond or whatever his name is is the definition of the Brexiteer elite scum that are pushing for no deal and that could not care less about the ordinary people. Phillips is vile but she isn’t stupid. Thought the two remain MP’s spoke quite well especially the labour fella seem like two decent chaps.

 

[esmufc07]

That Tory MP, Redmond or whatever his name is is the definition of the Brexiteer elite scum that are pushing for no deal and that could not care less about the ordinary people. Phillips is vile but she isn’t stupid. Thought the two remain MP’s spoke quite well especially the labour fella seem like two decent chaps.

John Redwood. He's a disingenuous MP.

There's another debate on Channel 5 at 10.

 

[ThierryHenry]

Bleak.

US culture wars are definitely on their way, if they’re not here already.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

US culture wars are definitely on their way, if they’re not here already.

Brexit is a culture war.

 

[nickm]

Nobody that I can see actually wants a hard border, it's a threat from some to try and prevent Brexit. And I am fully aware that Northern Ireland is far from stable, hence my links a page or two back.

A hard border, in the event of a no deal, would be inevitable. As Ivan Rogers pits it today, “Nor can you just wish away issues at borders, whether on land or cross-Channel, when the entire purpose of leaving the Single Market and Customs Union must be to run deliberately different regulatory regimes – chosen by your own Parliament – where you believe it suits you. Such choices by definition entail a hard border. Borders across the whole world demarcate different regulatory regimes.”

A hard border isn’t a way to prevent Brexit. It is an inevitable consequence of Brexit and I wish the Brexiters would be grown up enough to admit it.

 

[Sweet Square]

 

[Sweet Square]

They never bloody change, do they?

never.

 

[Berbaclass]

Loose the vote... Deselect MP's... Smash Corbyn in pmq's have saj give away billions in the spending review then call an election vote... And all back to the bullingdon club for pimms on Friday

Spoiler

 

[sun_tzu]

Meeting of all opposition parties tomorrow
Wonder if they might agree to block an election vote till after they have passed the extension legistlation?
And if so would Boris call a vote of confidence in himself

 

[Ramshock]

Good grief...the most obvious shysters in political history are putting on their medicine show, and yet people are terrified of Corbyn.

People are more interested in the dog, this is what we are up against.

 

[Ramshock]

Can anyone deny that Brexit was about rich people not wanting to pay taxes that they have been hiding and using poor racists to vote for leave in the referendum?

 

[golden_blunder]

Pretty sure the Cummings electoral maths would have involved the brexit party backing a hard brexit conservative manifesto... There is some serious bribing to do before the end of the week... Lord farage?

Jesus it’s playing out like a plot in Star Wars. Arise Lord Farage

 

[sullydnl]

Meeting of all opposition parties tomorrow
Wonder if they might agree to block an election vote till after they have passed the extension legistlation?
And if so would Boris call a vote of confidence in himself

 

[Eyepopper]

There's another debate on Channel 5 at 10.

Similar format to the Channel 4 debate, but everyone gets their tits out

 

[golden_blunder]

That Tory MP, Redmond or whatever his name is is the definition of the Brexiteer elite scum that are pushing for no deal and that could not care less about the ordinary people. Phillips is vile but she isn’t stupid. Thought the two remain MP’s spoke quite well especially the labour fella seem like two decent chaps.

Redwood looked like a cnut and when he opened his mouth sounded like one too. He also looks like moggy with grey hair

 

[esmufc07]

 

[Infra-red]

Mary Creagh said on Newsnight tonight that Labour will not vote for a GE if Johnson seeks one this week, because they believe it's a ploy to crash the country out with no deal.

 

[esmufc07]

Interesting thread

 

[Wibble]

She absolutely did.

When?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46384207/comments

I think that the closest she got was just before she quit when she said that she would personally vote to reject a no deal exit but she never ruled no deal out in her role as PM.

 

[Wibble]

Have they? Looking back through the timeline its been fairly consistent.

Also, what if, Ireland reunites but the Loyalist terror groups start their attacks again, do we keep Ireland separate because the terrorists are at it again?

Your strawman what if argument is irrelevant. A hard border will at the very least cause even more tension and at worst could see a return to the dark days before the GFA.

And yet again we Brits are showing just how little we give a toss about Northern Ireland. It is morally reprehensible.

 

[Mockney]

Good grief...the most obvious shysters in political history are putting on their medicine show, and yet people are terrified of Corbyn.

He's Schrodinger's Marxist. Patently too weak and ineffectual to be Leader of the Opposition, but liable to transform into Megatron Stalin if given even the smallest chance to lead the country.

 

[SteveJ]

 

[MadMike]

He's Schrodinger's Marxist. Patently too weak and ineffectual to be Leader of the Opposition, but liable to transform into Megatron Stalin if given even the smallest chance to lead the country.

You missed the chance to go with Optimus Marx.

 

[Mockney]

Optic-Marx Prime, surely?

... or Megatrotsk
....or Englesbee

These are the only 3 transformers I know.

But hey! Isn’t it really funny that we’re talking about this whist the Tories are doing everything they accused Corbyn of wanting to do surreptitiously, but completely in the open and with the full backing of most of the media!? Hahahahahahaha, puns...

 

[sammsky1]

Tory civil war erupts after Boris Johnson threatens snap election on Monday October 14 if Remainers vote to block No Deal today as Hammond dares PM to deselect him and Rudd warns him to not sack rebels

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7420153/Boris-Johnson-threatens-call-ELECTION-Brexit.html

Why are we facing an election?
by Associate Editor Jack Doyle

Boris Johnson last night warned that if rebel MPs pass a law compelling him to extend Article 50, it would make a better deal impossible to achieve.

He said the legislation would ‘chop the legs out’ from UK negotiators when the chances of success were ‘rising’. He also said there were no circumstances in which he would personally seek a delay. He will call for an election on Monday, October 14, if the rebel bill passes.

Who decides whether one should be held?

Mr Johnson cannot simply call a general election. Under the Fixed-term Parliaments Act, passed by the Lib Dem/Tory Coalition, two-thirds of MPs must approve. Jeremy Corbyn yesterday said the UK ‘needs’ a general election, making it all but impossible for Labour to resist one. However, MPs would agree only if they could ensure the election did not take place after October 31, Brexit day, denying Mr Johnson any opportunity to change the date.

When would the poll be?

By law, the minimum campaigning period before an election is 25 working days from the dissolution of Parliament until polling day. That makes an election possible at any point from Friday, October 11. Last night sources suggested that if the legislation passes, No 10 could hold a vote tomorrow for an election on Monday, October 14.

What happens today?

At 2.30pm the Commons sits for the first time since the end of July. On one side stands Mr Johnson and the Government and on the other a ‘Rebel Alliance’ made up of Labour, other opposition parties and some backbench Tories out to stop No Deal. The time available for the rebels is so short because Parliament will be prorogued next week.

What is the rebels’ plan?

Draft legislation published last night would force the Prime Minister to ask for, and agree, a three-month delay, until January 31, 2020, if no deal is agreed with the EU. If Brussels offered an extension of any other time period he would also be forced to swallow that. The four-page European Union (Withdrawal) Bill No 6 even contains a copy of the letter the Prime Minister will be forced to sign.

Can they win the vote?

It will be close, but rebel leaders are confident. They have around 15 backers – likely to be enough to win the day. Mr Johnson’s threat to remove the whip from any Tory who joins the rebellion – making it impossible for them to stand at the next election – appears to have peeled only a few off.

The rebels include Philip Hammond and David Gauke who were until just a few months ago senior Cabinet ministers. If they seize the order paper tomorrow, the bill will come before the Commons on Wednesday from 3pm. It has to pass the Commons, and the Lords, by Thursday.

What happens if they lose?

If they fail to muster a majority, Mr Johnson goes to Brussels on October 17 for the EU Council with the threat of No Deal in his armoury. Downing Street officials argue this is the only way he can extract concessions on the withdrawal agreement. Mr Johnson wants EU leaders to scrap the ‘anti-democratic’ backstop.

 

[fishfingers15]

Still think Optimus Marx is better.

 

[sammsky1]

Click on tweet for full list.

Are all these Tory ‘rebels’ in clear majority ‘leave’ constituencies? If deselected in a snap election, isn’t there a massive risk to BJ that Labour could win many of those seats on a ‘what type of deal referendum’ platform?

Also, I thought May was also solemnly against no deal. What way will she vote in rebel bill and/or vonc?

If May votes with Goverment rebels, would BJ also withdraw Tory whip from her?

 

[NWRed]

Click on tweet for full list.

Are all these Tory ‘rebels’ in clear majority ‘leave’ constituencies? If deselected in a snap election, isn’t there a massive risk to BJ that Labour could win many of those seats on a ‘what type of deal referendum’ platform?

Also, I thought May was also solemnly against no deal. What way will she vote in rebel bill and/or vonc?

If May votes with Goverment rebels, would BJ also withdraw Tory whip from her?

It isn't a complete list of anti no-deal Tories, just those that are willing to act now. There are others who are waiting to see if the EU will make concessions at the summit on the 17th and when they don't will then propose/back anti no-deal aaction. I'm not sure if May is one of those or not.

 

[owlo]

Quite convinced now that my analysis the other day [legislate, VoNC] is the best way forward for the rebels. Voting down BJ's snap election call in the middle. All relies on Corbyn not getting giddy and tory rebels holding nerve.

I've been working since before 5am on a strategy today, and I'm still not sure what to do. I'm gonna sell out my shorts in gbp today I think. Thankfully I'm over 60% in gold etc now, but I'm still fecked.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

Your strawman what if argument is irrelevant. A hard border will at the very least cause even more tension and at worst could see a return to the dark days before the GFA.

And yet again we Brits are showing just how little we give a toss about Northern Ireland. It is morally reprehensible.

I think voting to leave the EU, the single market, and the customs union was the wrong thing to do.

I don't think they are morally reprehensible in themselves.

It's easy to say this kind of thing as a remain voter but it makes you responsible for any reaction to a frustration of the leave vote. Which as I am voting for a remain party at the next election or remain in a referendum re-run, I don't want to be on the moral hook for the overreaction which will follow.

It follows directly from your logic that if Brexiteers turn to violence after parliament stops the UK leaving then every remain voter is morally reprehensible and responsible for any insane reaction to it.

That has to be bullshit.

 

[esmufc07]

Hammond saying rebels have the numbers to pass legislation.