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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
sun_tzu said:
They are not asking for that... he can stay leader of the labour party
They are saying if a government of unity with a temporary PM is to be formed that should be a labour mp who is not corbyn as they all think I he is useless.
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He won't be leader of the Parliamentary Labour party if someone else is in charge. Come on.

And we can't have Tories and lib dems who last I checked are responsible for the current cluster feck, along with the atrocious shit that's going on with benefits and a dozen other feck ups deciding that they get to choose which labour MP is "competent" enough to be in charge.
 
Shamwow said:
Why? He's just going to enact what needs to be done to avoid no deal and then call a GE and campaign for a second referendum. Which until he actually said he was going to do it, seemed to be what people wanted him to do.
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You and I know that but unfortunately the press easily twist his words, I hate saying it but he needs to play their game a little. I support what he's saying just not how he said it.
 
Shamwow said:
He won't be leader of the Parliamentary Labour party if someone else is in charge. Come on.

And we can't have Tories and lib dems who last I checked are responsible for the current cluster feck, along with the atrocious shit that's going on with benefits and a dozen other feck ups deciding that they get to choose which labour MP is "competent" enough to be in charge.
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Meh then leave it to the county to pick and you can get 8/1 on labour winning a majority
So if you think corbyn is going to win make yourself a fortune ... though I wouldn't be surprised to see no majority and basically libs / SNP demanding they get rid of corbyn as hes simply a toxic brand
Gut feel though is boris wins and you end up with a hard Brexit and the echo chamber blaming the fake news press and meh probably blaming Blair and or Jews and insisting jezbollah should remain leader
 
Mr Pigeon said:
You and I know that but unfortunately the press easily twist his words, I hate saying it but he needs to play their game a little. I support what he's saying just not how he said it.
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So we play their game and say okay you don't want corbyn? John mcdonnell will be interim leader. Then what happens?
 
sun_tzu said:
Meh then leave it to the county to pick and you can get 8/1 on labour winning a majority
So if you think corbyn is going to win make yourself a fortune ... though I wouldn't be surprised to see no majority and basically libs / SNP demanding they get rid of corbyn as hes simply a toxic brand
Gut feel though is boris wins and you end up with a hard Brexit and the echo chamber blaming the fake news press and meh probably blaming Blair and or Jews and insisting jezbollah should remain leader
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Can we get a translator again please
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
Honestly, which part of 'immediate extension of article 50 and a general election with Labour campaigning for a second referendum' is not what liberals want? What do liberals want?
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They're fuming because this means they won't be able to get through a No Deal Brexit, with the clean pair of hands they were banking on, for the next stage of British politics. Swinson's been forced to play her hand and it's yet another stinker.
 
Mockney said:
Corbyn’s played an absolute blinder here, tbf.
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Yeah, looks like he has pulled the rug from under Swinson over this. Labour can now attack Swinson as being prepared to back the Tories over austerity but not Labour to prevent no deal.
 
What sort of referendum does Corbyn want now he's converted, Remain or No Deal, Remain, No Deal or Deal, or something else. I think the Eu would want to know this before they granted an extension, and there ain't no point in an interim government unless we know they will grant one. And if he intends to fight a general election on a second referendum platform then again we would need to know what that second referendum would be. It's not a mere detail, it's the heart of the problem.
 
711 said:
What sort of referendum does Corbyn want now he's converted, Remain or No Deal, Remain, No Deal or Deal, or something else. I think the Eu would want to know this before they granted an extension, and there ain't no point in an interim government unless we know they will grant one. And if he intends to fight a general election on a second referendum platform then again we would need to know what that second referendum would be. It's not a mere detail, it's the heart of the problem.
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Except we won't know if the EU will give one until we get an interim government so it's not pointless it's a prerequisite.

I'd be shocked if no deal was included given the alliance would be to prevent no deal.
 
711 said:
What sort of referendum does Corbyn want now he's converted, Remain or No Deal, Remain, No Deal or Deal, or something else. I think the Eu would want to know this before they granted an extension, and there ain't no point in an interim government unless we know they will grant one. And if he intends to fight a general election on a second referendum platform then again we would need to know what that second referendum would be. It's not a mere detail, it's the heart of the problem.
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As far as I know the only confirmation as yet is that remain would be on the ballot.
 
Smores said:
Except we won't know if the EU will give one until we get an interim government so it's not pointless it's a prerequisite.

I'd be shocked if no deal was included given the alliance would be to prevent no deal.
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Well I doubt the EU would grant any extension on the basis of a referendum unless they knew what that referendum was, so that is the real prerequisite.

I accept that there has been an initial positive response from the other parties, albeit the Liberals say not under Corbyn, but wait a day or two, and the question 'What sort of referendum?' will need to be answered, not just for those parties, but for voters in the proposed election too.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
Honestly, which part of 'immediate extension of article 50 and a general election with Labour campaigning for a second referendum' is not what liberals want? What do liberals want?
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Corbyn is an idiot. His own party are split on Brexit, so he wants an election he can’t win followed by a referendum where he’ll have to pick a side anyway and piss off half his own party.

If he had a brain cell in his head he’d support a second referendum first but under a temporary government he leads, followed by an election as soon as the referendum is done.

That way he removes Brexit from internal party politics (he’d lose votes from some Leavers but gain many back from Lib Dems, and once the ref is done he can bring back the leavers who actually care about Labour policies anyway), he’d run the next election on domestic policy where he can slaughter the Tories on austerity and their posh boy policies, and finally if the Lib Dems/Greens/SNP tried to stand in the way of the interim government he could genuinely destroy them publicly for allowing a no deal just because they don’t like him personally. It would put enormous pressure on the small parties to play along, especially as it would be purely a government to enact a referendum.

This really isn’t a complicated calculation, and yet once again Corbyn has to feck it up and create a situation that isn’t going to lead to anything but a Tory no-deal. Good work Jezza, once again you’ve fecked us with your out of touch, high handed wankery.
 
Kentonio said:
Corbyn is an idiot. His own party are split on Brexit, so he wants an election he can’t win followed by a referendum where he’ll have to pick a side anyway and piss off half his own party.

If he had a brain cell in his head he’d support a second referendum first but under a temporary government he leads, followed by an election as soon as the referendum is done.

That way he removes Brexit from internal party politics (he’d lose votes from some Leavers but gain many back from Lib Dems, and once the ref is done he can bring back the leavers who actually care about Labour policies anyway), he’d run the next election on domestic policy where he can slaughter the Tories on austerity and their posh boy policies, and finally if the Lib Dems/Greens/SNP tried to stand in the way of the interim government he could genuinely destroy them publicly for allowing a no deal just because they don’t like him personally. It would put enormous pressure on the small parties to play along, especially as it would be purely a government to enact a referendum.

This really isn’t a complicated calculation, and yet once again Corbyn has to feck it up and create a situation that isn’t going to lead to anything but a Tory no-deal. Good work Jezza, once again you’ve fecked us with your out of touch, high handed wankery.
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So what better plan have you got up your sleeve to avert no deal? Maybe he should just not bother as he will just annoy some of you guys on here. dammed if you do dammed if you don't. British people really have got the govt they deserve.
 
Kentonio said:
Corbyn is an idiot. His own party are split on Brexit, so he wants an election he can’t win followed by a referendum where he’ll have to pick a side anyway and piss off half his own party.

If he had a brain cell in his head he’d support a second referendum first but under a temporary government he leads, followed by an election as soon as the referendum is done.

That way he removes Brexit from internal party politics (he’d lose votes from some Leavers but gain many back from Lib Dems, and once the ref is done he can bring back the leavers who actually care about Labour policies anyway), he’d run the next election on domestic policy where he can slaughter the Tories on austerity and their posh boy policies, and finally if the Lib Dems/Greens/SNP tried to stand in the way of the interim government he could genuinely destroy them publicly for allowing a no deal just because they don’t like him personally. It would put enormous pressure on the small parties to play along, especially as it would be purely a government to enact a referendum.

This really isn’t a complicated calculation, and yet once again Corbyn has to feck it up and create a situation that isn’t going to lead to anything but a Tory no-deal. Good work Jezza, once again you’ve fecked us with your out of touch, high handed wankery.
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So in your superior calculations there's enough remainers for remain to win in a referendum but not enough remainers willing to vote for a remain party in a GE?

The critical bunch in here have been saying for months that if Labour only went remain that they'd win any election. These goal posts must be on tracks the amount they're moved.
 
Kentonio said:
Corbyn is an idiot. His own party are split on Brexit, so he wants an election he can’t win followed by a referendum where he’ll have to pick a side anyway and piss off half his own party.

If he had a brain cell in his head he’d support a second referendum first but under a temporary government he leads, followed by an election as soon as the referendum is done.

That way he removes Brexit from internal party politics (he’d lose votes from some Leavers but gain many back from Lib Dems, and once the ref is done he can bring back the leavers who actually care about Labour policies anyway), he’d run the next election on domestic policy where he can slaughter the Tories on austerity and their posh boy policies, and finally if the Lib Dems/Greens/SNP tried to stand in the way of the interim government he could genuinely destroy them publicly for allowing a no deal just because they don’t like him personally. It would put enormous pressure on the small parties to play along, especially as it would be purely a government to enact a referendum.

This really isn’t a complicated calculation, and yet once again Corbyn has to feck it up and create a situation that isn’t going to lead to anything but a Tory no-deal. Good work Jezza, once again you’ve fecked us with your out of touch, high handed wankery.
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Doesn't that assume that after a second referendum, everyone is just OK with the result and moves on? I'm not a Brit but to me it would be surprising if a general election, even after a second referendum, was about anything but Brexit. Regardless of the result of that second referendum.
 
Siorac said:
Doesn't that assume that after a second referendum, everyone is just OK with the result and moves on? I'm not a Brit but to me it would be surprising if a general election, even after a second referendum, was about anything but Brexit. Regardless of the result of that second referendum.
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If you've ever seen an episode of a sci-fi programme, where they take out the main baddie and all it's brainwashed minions wake up back to normal but confused about what happened, that's pretty much the Remain theory in regards to a second referendum win/revoking A50.
 
Siorac said:
Doesn't that assume that after a second referendum, everyone is just OK with the result and moves on? I'm not a Brit but to me it would be surprising if a general election, even after a second referendum, was about anything but Brexit. Regardless of the result of that second referendum.
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Every elections until 2050 will be about Brexit, one way or the other. They opened the pandora box and from a purely political point of view, it's great for all sides because remainers and brexiteers can bring it up until the end of times, they won't even have to think about other policies.
 
Dobba said:
If you've ever seen an episode of a sci-fi programme, where they take out the main baddie and all it's brainwashed minions wake up back to normal but confused about what happened, that's pretty much the Remain theory in regards to a second referendum win/revoking A50.
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This is sadly quite true...and said as someone who’d consider themselves hugely sympathetic to the Remain cause (and often very critical of the Corbynist left) The recent blue tick commentariat pining for the halcyon days of the 2012 Olympics all but proved that there’s a decent section of the performatively Liberal centre that see Brexit as the cause of all Britain’s ills, rather than a long stewing symptom.

I was on a very middle class holiday recently with some perfectly nice but heavily FBPE peeps, who were bemoaning the fact that there’ll be riots on the streets if Brexit comes to pass, and I had to actively remind them, on two seperate occasions, that there already has been, a full year before 2012, because they’d actually forgotten it.
 
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JPRouve said:
Every elections until 2050 will be about Brexit, one way or the other. They opened the pandora box and from a purely political point of view, it's great for all sides because remainers and brexiteers can bring it up until the end of times, they won't even have to think about other policies.
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Yeah, that's pretty much how I see it too.
 
Mockney said:
This is sadly quite true...and said as someone who’d consider themselves hugely sympathetic to the Remain cause (and often very critical of the Corbynist left) The recent blue tick commentariat pining for the halcyon days of the 2012 Olympics all but proved that there’s a decent section of the performatively Liberal centre that see Brexit as the cause of all Britain’s ills, rather than a long stewing symptom.

I was on a very middle class holiday recently with some perfectly nice but heavily FBPE peeps, who were bemoaning the fact that there’ll be riots on the streets if Brexit comes to pass, and I had to actively remind them, on two seperate occasions, that there already has been, a full year before 2012, because they’d actually forgotten it.
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Very good article in the guardian about the radicalisation of remain voters.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/13/brexit-remain-radicalisation-fbpe-peoples-vote
 
It looks likely that if Corbyn stood aside then the Liberals and Tory rebels, who are also necessary for the proposal, might agree to it. As the interim government will supposedly not be there to implement Labour policy then there's no need for Corbyn to be it's leader as far as I can see. The pressure seems to be on Corbyn as much as the Liberals. Stand aside Corbyn, job's a good 'un.
 
711 said:
It looks likely that if Corbyn stood aside then the Liberals and Tory rebels, who are also necessary for the proposal, might agree to it. As the interim government will supposedly not be there to implement Labour policy then there's no need for Corbyn to be it's leader as far as I can see. The pressure seems to be on Corbyn as much as the Liberals. Stand aside Corbyn, job's a good 'un.
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No pressure on Corbyn, he's the leader of the opposition so you'd expect him to take charge of any alternative government. As you say he's not there to implement Labour policy so any opposition from the Lib Dems or Tory rebels is either playing politics or self-interest. He's actually the most voted for person in the house given the rest haven't faced an election.

They'll need to give much better reasons than they're currently providing not to face a backlash.
 
The fundamental beauty of a binary referendum is that it makes you take one of two stark choices and no amount of reshaping, hindsight, or trying to reinvent what the question 'actually' meant will alter the fact, or don't vote at all!

You either didn't vote, or you voted to remain, so the choice now (and in fact always has been) is to revoke A50; or you voted to leave which was always a 'no deal' outcome because the EU said from the off it cannot negotiate a TD until we left the EU and we wanted to negotiate a TD alongside the WA, before we left.

Unless the law of the land is changed/repealed, or 'a deal' is agreed for Brexit and approved in Parliament, then we leave the EU on the 31st Oct. It is quite simple really and Boris is on a winner either way.

We've run out of road to kick the can down and the EU have run out of time, because if they don't break free of the Brexit saga, one way or another, the whole Union can blow up, with the various pressures being exerted elsewhere.
 
Smores said:
So in your superior calculations there's enough remainers for remain to win in a referendum but not enough remainers willing to vote for a remain party in a GE?

The critical bunch in here have been saying for months that if Labour only went remain that they'd win any election. These goal posts must be on tracks the amount they're moved.
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Labour under Corbyn are not a Remain party!! How are people not seeing that already? The very reason he wants an election first is because he thinks he can win a majority and then hold the second referendum with Labour supporting a leave deal they themselves negotiate. He wants to leave, but he wants to leave on Labour terms not Tory terms.

This isn’t some random analysis, all you have to do is listen to what he himself says. He says he’ll renegotiate the deal. Why would he do that if he wanted to remain? He says he won’t commit Labour to supporting Remain in a second referendum, why on earth would he say that if he wanted to remain?

There is literally no reason why a remainer would have any faith in Jeremy Corbyn to keep us in the EU. Which is exactly why he wants an election before a referendum, despite it making no sense to do so.
 
Sweet Square said:
Very good article in the guardian about the radicalisation of remain voters.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/13/brexit-remain-radicalisation-fbpe-peoples-vote
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Yeah I saw it... inevitably a tad simplistic and driven to a conclusion (as all op-Ed’s are) but certainly not fanciful... there are plenty of Remainers who aren’t political novices, who even virulently opposed the status quo in their day and are aware that the younger generations have grown up with the failures of neoliberalism - many just can’t quite extracate themselves from the belief that the big battles were all kinda won by the late 90s, and the era in which they found themselves the most politically comfortable isn’t automatically the objectively “right” one. They believed Fukuyama.
 
Smores said:
No pressure on Corbyn, he's the leader of the opposition so you'd expect him to take charge of any alternative government. As you say he's not there to implement Labour policy so any opposition from the Lib Dems or Tory rebels is either playing politics or self-interest. He's actually the most voted for person in the house given the rest haven't faced an election.

They'll need to give much better reasons than they're currently providing not to face a backlash.
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The person I'd expect to take charge of an alternative government is the person that would command majority support in parliament, not one opposition party, even if it is the largest. Corbyn's plan may or may not be a good one but it falls down because he himself is the obstacle. The pressure's just as much on Corbyn as the Liberals.
 
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