Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Abizzz]

Thanks for the answers everyone. One would think after 3 years things eventually get better but the incoming PM doesn't make me hopeful.


One of the current featured wiki pages is about the 1927 Chicago election. One candidate apparently publicly debated live rats symbolizing his opponents (and won). Hunt should have brought a live chicken to that Sky debate.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I'm thinking of setting up a dingy shop on the Dover coast ready for when everybody gets desperate and wants to escape back to Europe... Bananas sounds like a lucrative sideline

You could paint the walls in bright colours to cheer it up a bit.

 

[JPRouve]

But you agree with the rest of it though?

To be honest the rest is a bit bland. A premeditated no deal is a stupid idea and that's what the non leavers said from day one, so acting as if something that has been said outloud is some sort of secret is strange. The issue is that UK politicians have and still are living on a different planet, with their red lines and internal battles. There are no possible deals outside of the one offered.

In the end it's not worth discussing because we have done it to death and nothing changed from the UK standpoint.

 

[Kentonio]

To be honest the rest is a bit bland. A premeditated no deal is a stupid idea and that's what the non leavers said from day one, so acting as if something that has been said outloud is some sort of secret is strange.

The really crazy thing is that on day one almost no-one on the leave side was talking about no-deal in any serious sense. Certainly none of the leave politicians were. They were all talking about variations of deal, most were completely in favour of the single market etc etc. Things have changed hugely in 3 years.

 

[Smores]

The really crazy thing is that on day one almost no-one on the leave side was talking about no-deal in any serious sense. Certainly none of the leave politicians were. They were all talking about variations of deal, most were completely in favour of the single market etc etc. Things have changed hugely in 3 years.

That's just the daily mail cycle.

Daily mail prints stupid shit >> Tory members believe stupid shit >> Tory party repeats the stupid shit the members believe >> Daily mail prints more stupid shit >> repeat

 

[Maticmaker]

To be honest the rest is a bit bland. A premeditated no deal is a stupid idea and that's what the non leavers said from day one, so acting as if something that has been said outloud is some sort of secret is strange. The issue is that UK politicians have and still are living on a different planet, with their red lines and internal battles. There are no possible deals outside of the one offered.

In the end it's not worth discussing because we have done it to death and nothing changed from the UK standpoint.

I agree with much of what you say, nothing has changed and is unlikely to do so unless both sets of politicians start living in the real world. The 'no deal' threat didn't need to be said out aloud, except when Theresa May said at Lancaster House, she believed she could hoodwink her Brexiteers with it. It was the same with the phrase "nothings agreed until every things agreed" as that was obvious, but both sides carried on as though neither phrase had any meaning and would never happen. Well unless there is some miracle both will happen on the 31st October.

Incidentally my obsession is not with France, like the poor "they are always with us" our joint history and heritage goes back centuries. However I do (admit to) having doubts, very irrational I suppose, about a country that twice in the last century has tried to dominate Europe by force and failed and now seems to be doing it by economics/political measures, my fear of a future United States of Europe becoming, more or less, a Greater Germany is irrational, but its there; too much of my childhood was tied up with the aftermath last time. Its quite possible with the German talent for organisation etc it could be a success...but?

 

[JPRouve]

The really crazy thing is that on day one almost no-one on the leave side was talking about no-deal in any serious sense. Certainly none of the leave politicians were. They were all talking about variations of deal, most were completely in favour of the single market etc etc. Things have changed hugely in 3 years.

Some of them called the idea ridiculous if I'm not mistaken but it was still a thing in the sense that it's the default position. It was an easily forseeable future when they made it obvious that they had no intention to be realistic.

 

[Kentonio]

Some of them called the idea ridiculous if I'm not mistaken but it was still a thing in the sense that it's the default position. It was an easily forseeable future when they made it obvious that they had no intention to be realistic.

Yup, it was Daniel Hannon who said back then "Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market.". And now if you're a leaver and support the single market, they'll probably burn you as a heretic.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Yup, it was Daniel Hannon who said back then "Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market.". And now if you're a leaver and support the single market, they'll probably burn you as a heretic.

The shifting the goalposts on this has been remarkable. On Question Time yesterday we had too many middle aged people just stating "We voted Leave and that's that"

 

[Jippy]

The shifting the goalposts on this has been remarkable. On Question Time yesterday we had too many middle aged people just stating "We voted Leave and that's that"

There was no deal mentioned on the ballot paper etc...My mother's partner's disingenuous favourite line.

 

[Adisa]

The EU gave us six months to sort our shit out. We have predictably blown it. It's like squabling over leftovers in a room with a bomb in it. The country is gripped with Tory leadership debate while no one is discussing how we sort out brexit. The Tories have done untold damage to this country.

 

[UweBein]

...

Incidentally my obsession is not with France, like the poor "they are always with us" our joint history and heritage goes back centuries. However I do (admit to) having doubts, very irrational I suppose, about a country that twice in the last century has tried to dominate Europe by force and failed and now seems to be doing it by economics/political measures, my fear of a future United States of Europe becoming, more or less, a Greater Germany is irrational, but its there; too much of my childhood was tied up with the aftermath last time. Its quite possible with the German talent for organisation etc it could be a success...but?

Now imagine how citizens of Czech republic, Slovenia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Poland etc. might feel about the EU. They were actually invaded by Germany in WWII.

I do understand the skepticism. Myself, I feel that the big countries in the EU are the actual rulers of the EU: France, Spain, Italy, Germany, and UK. The other 23 countries together have less influence than these 5.
Ironically, a United States of Europe would have minimized the effect of the single nations, so Germany's say would actually decrease if you give more power to the European Parliament.

 

[sun_tzu]

If Cameron had made the referendum about remain as we are or change to a norway style deal i suspect with a good campaign they could have got 70% or more voting for that
The remain side would feel ok as changes were minimal
the leave side would feel ok as they had forced a change

there would have been no ambiguity about we voted leave - but not what type of leave

honestly the thought process behind the referendum was either non existant or flawed

 

[711]

If Cameron had made the referendum about remain as we are or change to a norway style deal i suspect with a good campaign they could have got 70% or more voting for that
The remain side would feel ok as changes were minimal
the leave side would feel ok as they had forced a change

there would have been no ambiguity about we voted leave - but not what type of leave

honestly the thought process behind the referendum was either non existant or flawed

Cameron could only have put the option to 'leave and seek to negotiate a norway style deal', he couldn't have promised a change unilaterally. You might say 'of course the EU would have agreed that' but there's no certainty I'm afraid.

 

[Smores]

There was no deal mentioned on the ballot paper etc...My mother's partner's disingenuous favourite line.

I wonder if that logic would work if Corbyn took over the Tories and changed all their policies

Well it didn't say the leader on the ballot paper....

 

[Reddy Rederson]

The EU gave us six months to sort our shit out. We have predictably blown it. It's like squabling over leftovers in a room with a bomb in it. The country is gripped with Tory leadership debate while no one is discussing how we sort out brexit. The Tories have done untold damage to this country.

And yet, they’ll be voted in again. Never held to account for the shit they do.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

If Cameron had made the referendum about remain as we are or change to a norway style deal i suspect with a good campaign they could have got 70% or more voting for that
The remain side would feel ok as changes were minimal
the leave side would feel ok as they had forced a change

there would have been no ambiguity about we voted leave - but not what type of leave

honestly the thought process behind the referendum was either non existant or flawed

If the UK had changed from remain as we are to a Norway style deal you would still have the 4 freedoms, no CU, no GFA solution and no vote. Sounds the worst of all possible worlds except no deal

 

[sun_tzu]

If the UK had changed from remain as we are to a Norway style deal you would still have the 4 freedoms, no CU, no GFA solution and no vote. Sounds the worst of all possible worlds except no deal

Yes but apparently the vote wasnt about hating immigrants but only about sovereignty... plus I think if we remain in the cu there is no gfa issues

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Yes but apparently the vote wasnt about hating immigrants but only about sovereignty... plus I think if we remain in the cu there is no gfa issues

If you remain in the CU and SM the GFA is safe but Norway isn't in the CU.

You're right about the immigrants, it's just different shades of immigrants they want.

 

[matherto]

The EU gave us six months to sort our shit out. We have predictably blown it. It's like squabling over leftovers in a room with a bomb in it. The country is gripped with Tory leadership debate while no one is discussing how we sort out brexit. The Tories have done untold damage to this country.

There is no way of sorting Brexit out.

Hence we're leaving with no deal which Brexiteers claim they want but really everyone is terrified.

 

[Maticmaker]

Now imagine how citizens of Czech republic, Slovenia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Poland etc. might feel about the EU. They were actually invaded by Germany in WWII.

I do understand the skepticism. Myself, I feel that the big countries in the EU are the actual rulers of the EU: France, Spain, Italy, Germany, and UK. The other 23 countries together have less influence than these 5.
Ironically, a United States of Europe would have minimized the effect of the single nations, so Germany's say would actually decrease if you give more power to the European Parliament.

Would it?
Anyone who thinks with their expertise, money and capabilities to organise, that the Germans would 'stand down' in a USE, must be living in an alternative universe. Germany pays most into the EU, the euro currency keeps their brilliant manufacturing industries competitive, he who pays the piper calls the tune!
The European Parliament does as its told by the Commission, it rubber stamps their decisions (as with the new leaders), there would have to be major changes in the way the EU Parliament is formed and operates to ensure even a basic democratic USE emerges and there have been no signs whatsover of this occurring, or even being considered at any time over the last forty years... sorry, as I say it is my obsession, and at times I can't see past it.

Maybe with the 'awkward squad' from the UK out of the way, then the other 27 nations in the EU can transform the EU into a democratic United States of Europe; however please don't assume everyone will get an equal voice, it don't work that way!

 

[JPRouve]

Would it?
Anyone who thinks with their expertise, money and capabilities to organise, that the Germans would 'stand down' in a USE, must be living in an alternative universe. Germany pays most into the EU, the euro currency keeps their brilliant manufacturing industries competitive, he who pays the piper calls the tune!
The European Parliament does as its told by the Commission, it rubber stamps their decisions (as with the new leaders), there would have to be major changes in the way the EU Parliament is formed and operates to ensure even a basic democratic USE emerges and there have been no signs whatsover of this occurring, or even being considered at any time over the last forty years... sorry, as I say it is my obsession, and at times I can't see past it.

Maybe with the 'awkward squad' from the UK out of the way, then the other 27 nations in the EU can transform the EU into a democratic United States of Europe; however please don't assume everyone will get an equal voice, it don't work that way!

I love the use of cliché when talking about a country.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I love the use of cliché when talking about a country.

I have not yet decided to wear a beret, a striped T-shirt and ride around on my bike selling onions.

 

[nimic]

The Germans organized their way from a Great Power to not even in charge of their own capital in less than a decade.

Though to be fair, the Germans of today are a lot more organized than the Nazis were.

 

[Steven Seagull]

I gave up posting on here more than a year ago - a bunch of sheep all agreeing with each others' moans and whines.

And I won't post on here again after tonight. But just to give an example of why millions of us detest the EU and want to see an end to the political stupidity, corruption and nonsense which the EU survives on.

You may have noticed that this week the EU have announced their new team of Presidents.....Think about that, TEAM of Presidents - anyone know any country / state / whatever that has more than one President other than than the EU ?? Let the rest of us know if you do....

Anyway.....For those of us who will still be trapped in the EU after the UK leaves, here are our new Presidents -

European Commission President - Ursula von dr Leyen. German, of course (largest financial contributer to the EU, so why not is the answer to those who might suggest that the EU is merely a way for Germany and France to rule Europe ) and currently the German Minister of Defence. A bit of a laughing stock back home in The Fatherland due to numerous mishaps in the German Military - like Frau Fatarse having to cadge a lift to Argentina on an Iberia schedule flight after her Luftwaffe plane developed a fault on its way there and admitting that her Ministry had spent € 000s of millions inappropriately to contractors - and despite how the Remainers in the UK poo-pooed Leavers claims as lies that the EU was preparing to create its own Armed Forces, is a full-on supporter of a United States of Europe with its own EU Army

https://www.handelsblatt.com/today/...leyen-europe-is-forming-an-army/23851656.html

Although just to give her a modicum of the benefit of the doubt, she might not have actually written this piece herself, but who knows....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35769001


European Council President - Charles Michel. Belgian, which is a very welcome new job for him because he won't even have to move home for it and which comes after he was turfed out as Belgium's Prime mInister in a vote of no confidence by the Belgium Parliament last December. Talk about luck, heh, and the rewards for failure. Belgium being Belgium, however, he's still Interim Prime Minister , much like Mrs May, but while she goes back to being a a nobody constituency MP, Monsieur Michel is about to become President of almost 500 million Europeans without 490 million of those Europeanns having ever even heard of him, let alone vote for him as their President.


High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs - Josep Borrell. An archetypical Spanish politician, who will transfer seamlessly from being Spanish Foreign Minister to his new Gilbert & Sullivan's Mikado themed BusyBody, and who will be right at home in Brussels as he has a wonderful record of Public Service which has been blemished only by a few not-really-important scandals, such as -

1 ) Having to resign from the Presidency ( there we go again ) of the European University Institute for an unexplained € 300,000 scandal

https://www.politico.eu/article/borrell-forced-to-resign-over-energy-interests/

2 ) was recently fined € 30.000 for criminal Insider Dealing in Spain

https://www.efe.com/efe/english/wor...ing-sparking-calls-to-resign/50000262-3825834

3 ) Spanish citizens ( well those outside Catalunya, presumably ) are delighted that he would support a break-up of the UK and Scotland's entry into the EU whilst absolutely refusing to even consider and discuss Cataluya's desires to breakaway from Spain.

https://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFKCN1NP25P

4 ) Has a very personal opinion on Iranian<>Isreal politics, rather Corbyn-esque, and doesn't give a whole lot of confidnce that the EU will be trying very hard to prevent Iran from developing Nuclear Weapons.



And finally....

How would the EU be the EU without a French Politician in a position of ultimate importance, so step forward -

European Central Bank President - Christine Lagarde. Currently MD and Chairperson of the IMF, but can now call herself President, so there's some benefit in having to relocate from New York to Frankfurt. a colourful past, of course, which included being found guilty by a French Criminal Court of being ' negligent ' with € 400 million of French Taxpayers money.

https://www.businessinsider.com/chr...-french-tycoon-payout-trial-2016-12?r=US&IR=T

On the other hand, ' negligence ' with TaxPayers money is an absolute must for the EU so probably sealed the job for her.


We were not permitted to vote in any of these four, and we will not be permitted to vote out any of them, either.


Welcome to democracy EU style, and some of you on here still say that people in the UK who voted to leave didn't know what they were voting for.

Interesting points here but quite rightfully mocked for its childish “sheeple” language.

Responded to equally childishly with pathetic whattaboutery.

And we wonder why we are where we are. The lines have been drawn

 

[Maticmaker]

I love the use of cliché when talking about a country.

Glad you like it, seems with you "I'm hitting all the right notes... not necessarily in the right order" (apologies to Eric Morecambe).
Stereotypes come from somewhere, do they not?

 

[Maticmaker]

I have not yet decided to wear a beret, a striped T-shirt and ride around on my bike selling onions.

So Paul not gone native yet, how long have you lived in France?

Perhaps settled in one of those ex-pat 'ghettos' no doubt, or perhaps your neighbours expect/wait for 'rosbef' to go out in the mid-day sun?

 

[JPRouve]

Glad you like it, seems with you "I'm hitting all the right notes... not necessarily in the right order" (apologies to Eric Morecambe).
Stereotypes come from somewhere, do they not?

Yes, from ignorance and casual racism.

 

[Buster15]

I have not yet decided to wear a beret, a striped T-shirt and ride around on my bike selling onions.

Ah. But have you been eating frogs legs and snails.

 

[Striker10]

If Cameron had made the referendum about remain as we are or change to a norway style deal i suspect with a good campaign they could have got 70% or more voting for that
The remain side would feel ok as changes were minimal
the leave side would feel ok as they had forced a change

there would have been no ambiguity about we voted leave - but not what type of leave

honestly the thought process behind the referendum was either non existant or flawed

There is no ambiguity. They sent out leaflets spelling it out. The reality is if people wanting to leave were that concerned about how we'd leave, they would have went out onto the streets. They didn't because they knew what they voted for. It's the media who have stirred up the bs by saying most people didn't know what they voted for. No part of leave the EU in any way shape or form, implies with a deal.

 

[Buster15]

Yes, from ignorance and casual racism.

Touche.

 

[Buster15]

There is no ambiguity. They sent out leaflets spelling it out. The reality is if people wanting to leave were that concerned about how we'd leave, they would have went out onto the streets. They didn't because they knew what they voted for. It's the media who have stirred up the bs.

And do you really think that everyone actually read them or even understood them.
I think no.

 

[Striker10]

And do you really think that everyone actually read them or even understood them.
I think no.

You cannot go down that way of thinking.....that's absurd. It don't matter what you think. It really don't. The fact you think that's a viable reply is not very good.

 

[horsechoker]

Ah. But have you been eating frogs legs and snails.

And having multiple lovers

 

[Buster15]

You cannot go down that way of thinking.....that's absurd.

Absurd. Really.
At least I am not being naive.

 

[Maticmaker]

Yes, from ignorance and casual racism.

Yes, the emancipation of the poor, especially in what they can read and write and lately the movies and TV in particular have a lot to answer for, I agree. Social media now has the upper hand, an even greater tool for the transfer of ignorance, fake news, cliché's abound in the future!

 

[Paul the Wolf]

So Paul not gone native yet, how long have you lived in France?

Perhaps settled in one of those ex-pat 'ghettos' no doubt, or perhaps your neighbours expect/wait for 'rosbef' to go out in the mid-day sun?

12 years. You wouldn't see me dead in one of the ex-pat ghettos, tend to avoid Brits who don't make an effort, 90% of people I know are French.

Ah. But have you been eating frogs legs and snails.

Not keen on snails, too chewy , frogs legs are ok although I believe originate in Cornwall - my french wife has never eaten either.

 

[JPRouve]

Not keen on snails, too chewy , frogs legs are ok although I believe originate in Cornwall - my french wife has never eaten either.

Yeah, neither are particularly french and most people haven't and won't eat it.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Yeah, neither are particularly french and most people haven't and won't eat it.

Forgot to say, had my official welcoming ceremony at the Préfecture as a french national, nearly a year after gaining french nationality, given an official diploma by the Préfet, sang the Marseillaise. About 30 people who obtained French nationality in the département in the past year of whom 6 were British including me.

 

[Buster15]

Forgot to say, had my official welcoming ceremony at the Préfecture as a french national, nearly a year after gaining french nationality, given an official diploma by the Préfet, sang the Marseillaise. About 30 people who obtained French nationality in the département in the past year of whom 6 were British including me.

Congratulations.