Instead of ooooh Jeremy Corbyn it should be ummm, errrr Jeremy Corbyn.
Decision expected by 2029.
Decision expected by 2029.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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I think labour simply have to come out and back a 2nd referendum - i cant see another logical play for them
The timing is good as well as it then gives them a credible solid position as the conservatives tear each other apart over the realities of a no deal position.
I am no fan of Corbyn but even those that are must be fed up of this prevaricating... if he does not make a decision soon its going to dominate the conference.
I suspect the brexit party actually helps the situation as now it means people who are pro brexit dont have to defect to the conservatives so in pure electoral math terms that probably helps
*Corbyn concludes that we need yet another general election
How do you expect the Labour Party to stop Brexit without changing the current arithmetic in parliament?
Wow, even McDonnell is losing patience.
Why do you think the Labour Party (Corbyn) wants to stop Brexit?
How many times do we have to go over this?????????????????????????????????????????????????
This isn't about a second referendum that's already been agreed as the position, Corbyn made a statement pushing the need for a second ref just yesterday at PMQ. I think the internal dispute is whether to push for having remain as part of any second referendum rather than confirming any deal and also agreeing the position to actively campaign for it.
I suspect they'll end up agreeing to back a remain option and in terms of campaigning they'll form a Labour Leave and Labour Remain group as a compromise to allow both sides to have their say.
I think its also about pushing for it regardless of if there is a GE or not - and I would guess if there is a GE and labour win do they also think on principal any deal they negotiated should also be subject to a confirmatory referendum?
So he can come second, third or even fourth this time.
I don't think Corbyn has grasped the fact that he's supposed to be leader of the opposition. If he's waiting to have a majority in parliament to be able to do anything that means he he'll be waiting for ever and may as well go home. If he had a majority he'd already be PM.
He did have the arithmetic to stop no deal but that would have meant taking a decision. Can limp lettuces take a decision?
That's a different question. My point was that the people who bemoan Labour for calling for another general election seem to do so on the basis that it doesn't stop the problem of Brexit. And calling for a second referendum does? If Brexit is to be stopped, then it's going to require a change in the numbers in the House of Commons. That can only be achieved via a general election.
If there's a GE i'd hope they campaign on promising a yes or no referendum, they've suggest as much anyway.
I can certainly see why some want the decision delayed a few week, with every passing day the bullshit coming out of Boris and Hunt makes Brexit sound more and more ridiculous. Labour go flat out remain and instead of them explaining how they'll deliver brexit they'll just focus on Labours position and rile up their base.
Where have you been for the past three years, all we have heard from all politicians in the HoC is more and more ridiculous and that includes Corbyn.
Even now all he has been saying is putting any deal approved by parliament to be put to the people. There is no deal that has been or will be approved by parliament and furthermore there is only one and will only ever be one withdrawal agreement.
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Exactly my point, It would be useful to expose that they're the same old shit rather than as claimed 'fresh' approaches before giving them a chance to just close in on attacking Labour. Tories arguing amongst themselves and calling each other bullshit merchants is far more likely to win the doubtful leavers over than if it's coming from the opposition.
But the Tories have been fighting amongst themselves since day one and have been pretty split down the middle. There was no-one more determined to get Brexit over the line than May but she was seen as a Remainer by Leavers and a Leaver by Remainers. Any politician seen as being against Brexit is seen as a traitor. But Remainers have got no-one to put their position.
Now you're going to get an avid Brexiteer who will more than likely cock it all up and the UK'll be out before you know it.
The bullshit has been there since day one and as far as I can see they still believe the bullshit.
Corbyn has to be more courageous and take the bull by the horns - if he really wants to Remain - because if he still goes along with Brexit and the public still want Brexit they're not going to follow Labour as a Brexit party and nor will the remainers. He's a bit like how people view May.
I don’t think that’s true. There were already a sizeable majority against no deal Brexit, but they couldn’t decide on an acceptable alternative. If it actually came down to the wire and the soft Brexit people suddenly have to either face a no deal or back a second referendum, there’s a good chance enough will capitulate and push the decision back to the public. If a 2nd ref has strong enough backing from the opposition.
possibly... but if you were pro brexit and in charge of the conservative party wht would you let that happen?
far more logical to switch the policy to hard brexit - get the membership to de-select anybody who wont vote for that (put farrage in a safe seat and let him stand as a conservative) and fight a GE on a "clean break / managed exit / (economic clusterfek)"
better to have the fight as a GE than as a referendum I think simply because i am not sure the EU would grant the time needed for a second ref - I mean how long would it take - I think they said a minimum 6 months - and thats based on there being no legal challenges to the question etc (and lets be honest there probably would be)
I simply dont see that it would be viable to put brexit off for up to another year to roll the dice on a 2nd referendum... and certainly from an EU point of view I suspect the certainty of a no deal (or remain) quickly would be preferable to another year of brexit taking up their time
I think the EU would (reluctantly) still allow time for a 2nd ref, but there’s no need for the new PM to allow either that or a new GE. They control parliamentary business and can just run down the clock until we crash out.
Literally the only card left is the threat of a no confidence vote backed by the Remain Tories. But then do the likes of Hoey and Field back no confidence knowing it might also stop Brexit? And even if there’s a no confidence vote, do the EU suddenly offer a rudderless UK an extension that no-one has requested because there’s no government to request it?
I think we might genuinely be fecked this time.
even if they do - is there a government to accept it?
Exactly. It feels like we’re at the point where if the no-deal Tories like Boris want Brexit more than they want power, then it’s in their hands. Ironic really that Boris’ ambition might be the only thing that ends up saving the country from catastrophe..
possibly - personally im banking on his incompetence to somehow gash it up but yeah in reality it could well come down to if boris is prepared to force a no deal... part of me thinks he wouldnt and besides he will probably just delegate decisions to his cabinet - but another part of me imagines his cabinet which probably consists of Mogg (treasury?) Mcvey (brexit?) Davies (foreign?) and then I think not only is a hard brexit probable but they may well declare war on germany and france as wellExactly. It feels like we’re at the point where if the no-deal Tories like Boris want Brexit more than they want power, then it’s in their hands. Ironic really that Boris’ ambition might be the only thing that ends up saving the country from catastrophe..
We very shortly will, for the first time, have a pro-Brexit leader in charge of the Conservative party, in addition to our pro-Brexit leader already in charge of the Labour party. Looked at that way Brexit looks inevitable, but I'm with Kentonio, I still think that at the last moment enough individual MPs will break ranks with their party leaders, and vote possibly for a second referendum, or I would add for the negotiated deal. Personally I would prefer the negotiated deal, as I think Remain would lose a second referendum and there would be too much danger of a hard Brexit to follow.
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Corbyn has been a euro-sceptic for decades, it's well known.
The Brexit lot are somehow managing to revive the GATT24 fallacy this morning. I thought this has been proven as bullshit about 2 months ago, yet they are back at it big time in what is clearly a co-ordinated ploy.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/boris-johnson-mark-carney-gatt-24/
ARGGGGG!!! The stupid!! It burns!!
Not only that Jeremy has been a lifelong 'against/oppose' man; the EU, the Tories, New Labour, in fact anyone or anything that didn't chime with his form of socialism. The Brexit situation was tailor-made for such as Jeremy, but not his party!
Jeremy still might get his wish of a GE early in the New Year, the irony will be that when his strategy works and he has forced a GE, his support has gone too... story of his life really!
It is difficult not to conclude they have all gone stark, raving mad. Typical end days of a cult.
I imagine they think they have to come out with all this now to prepare the ground for when no deal happens and they can all blame the EU for it being so grim. Knowing the electorate it will probably work too.
Yeah, now that they are responsible for the shiteshow, they will blame the EU when it all inevitably ends in tears. I do think though that can only fool a minority.
Yes I know, I'm trying to get through to the remainers who also are members of the Corbyn fan club that they've picked a wrong-'un.
When push comes to shove, centrists would rather back the far right.
The annoying this is that Corbyn being PM doesn't mean he can do what he wants.
The hysteria behind the possibility of him becoming PM is hilarious. He’s become this legendary boogeyman for adults.
What’s amazing is this fear mongering sources largely from the party who’ve done more damage than anyone in recent history and have placed the nation in its biggest constitutional crisis since the Second World War.
And I don't even consider myself far left of the spectrum, I have no personal affinity for Corbyn, I've had a go at him numerous times even said we should stick a fork in him.
The idea he would be worse than the last decade of Tory governments is laughable. Any idea he has would still have to go through parliament. These bastards have got to go.
The idea he would be worse than the last decade of Tory governments is laughable. Any idea he has would still have to go through parliament. These bastards have got to go.
But what is equally laughable is that the Labour Party can't find a better quality politician to lead them. Opportunity of a lifetime and they put Corbyn as their frontman... seriously?
Who would you suggest that isn’t more of the same?
Blame the members. And to be honest, looking at who he was up against, not hard to see why. I am voting in the next contest just to play my part in getting him out. But will have him before the feckin Tories any day of the week.