Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Paul the Wolf said:
Plus you've just bought a villa in Torremolinos.;)
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Shhh.
Nah, I'm happy in Lancashire. We have arseholes of course but the good people are very good, kind, amusing, and good company. I couldn't get Mrs711 to go as far as moving suburbs not that long ago, she didn't want to move away from friends and neighbours, and in hindsight I don't blame her. I've even got to like the weather, I'm out in the hills and moors right through winter nowadays, you just need a bit of knowledge and the right gear.
 
Kinsella said:
No problem.

If what you say is true, that the country has shifted to the right and extremist views are becoming normalised, then as far as that derives from issues like immigration, multiculturalism etc, is it not the case that those who expressed legitimate concerns about such things should have been listened to more, instead of being denounced as bigots/xenophobes/racists or just ignored? It's always easy to be wise after the event I suppose but that was certainly my impression whenever such things were discussed in the media.
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Thought that is what you meant - just wanted to make sure.

I agree that has derived from too much immigration - I am against freedom of movement (where it is too one-sided and not controlled to some degree) but believe any argument that there has been too much multiculturalism and therefore that justifies a shift to the far right is disingenuous.

Personally I think there should never be a situation where xenophobes/racists should ever be justified and their opinions given credence. Problem is there does need to be individuals out there who believe in controlling immigration - not for any nasty reasons but believe from a practical perspective it is good practice to carry out even for a liberal government which wants to have a multicultural society.

Sweet Square said:
But again he has to phase it a million times better. Still any comparison with the Nazis is just a bit silly,
  • The ERG don't actually have a plan and even if they did they can't get it through parliament.
  • The brexit vote is almost completely a older vote. These people can barely organise a march let alone a violent takeover of the government.
  • Theres not pro brexit far right youth movement.
  • I've posted about this before but the tories are in deep trouble in the long term.
  • 2 odd million people march against Brexit where as the Pro Brexit march didn't even pass the half a million mark
  • Britain has the biggest centre left party in Europe which is polling in first.
  • Possible most important, people like the ERG and the Brexit is based on empire nostalgia and nationalist Thatcherism.
None of this means everything will be fine but that there simply isn't the material conditions in Britain for Nazism(Far right politics yes but not nazism)


My worry with very Pro Remain people like Lammy is they are turing Brexit into a god awful culture war.
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Are we forgetting the use of 'Grand Wizard' to celebrate senior group of white males which run the Conservative party. Or the retweeting of a video by a group which is indeed a pseudo-nazi party by Jacob Rees-Mogg?

I'm sorry but that is signs of pretty powerful individuals in the Conservative party, the governing party of being utterly oblivious or encouraging of this shift to a more extremist fascist ideology.

It is fascism through the backdoor. I completely agree with him that racism is growing everywhere, we see it in football at the moment.. it is becoming more and more acceptable. Like I said, if Boris Johnson can openly call muslim women letterboxes... how on earth is that not indicative of a racist undertone becoming more and more acceptable in the elite spectrum of politics?
 
711 said:
Shhh.
Nah, I'm happy in Lancashire. We have arseholes of course but the good people are very good, kind, amusing, and good company. I couldn't get Mrs711 to go as far as moving suburbs not that long ago, she didn't want to move away from friends and neighbours, and in hindsight I don't blame her. I've even got to like the weather, I'm out in the hills and moors right through winter nowadays, you just need a bit of knowledge and the right gear.
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Good for you, enjoy life as much as you can.
 
Raees said:
Are we forgetting the use of 'Grand Wizard' to celebrate senior group of white males which run the Conservative party. Or the retweeting of a video by a group which is indeed a pseudo-nazi party by Jacob Rees-Mogg?
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So are they the Klan or the Nazis ? Clearly theres been a slow move to the far right over the years(I always mention that the BNP nearly got a million votes in the 2009 european elections, in fact this move to the right started with New Labour)and then a sharper one after the referendum.

I've said before I like Lammy and think he's a rather good MP but his analysis is a complete mess and plays into this bizarre culture war where people fight not on the important issues such as class but on cultural signifiers such - city or rural, what media you consume, how you voted in a one off referendum etc.

Which the tories will love as their economic policy is dog shit.


Raees said:
I'm sorry but that is signs of pretty powerful individuals in the Conservative party, the governing party of being utterly oblivious or encouraging of this shift to a more extremist fascist ideology.
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The EGR failed to get rid of May. They've had years/decades to come up with a alternative version for Britain and the best they have is still Thatcherism. And in the end they went for Mays deal.

Jacob Rees-Mogg can be summed up easily by the bearded one

“The Tories in England long imagined that they were enthusiastic about monarchy, the church, and the beauties of the old English Constitution, until the day of danger wrung from them the confession that they are enthusiastic only about ground rent.
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Plus Johnson could lose his seat in the next election

Boris Johnson could lose his seat to a surge of younger voters, research shows.

The Tory leadership hopeful’s 5,000 majority is at risk after his party has failed to attract enough voters under the age of 40.

Research conducted by new Conservative supporting thing tank Onward has suggested that Mr Johnson's Uxbridge and South Ruislip is "vulnerable".

Their analysis suggests that a Conservative seat is vulnerable lose if the ratio of younger voters, under 40, rises above 1.1 for every older voter over 60.

According to the think tank in 2017 the 'tipping point age' – the median age at which a voter is more likely to vote Conservative than Labour – was 47 years old.

But it has increased in the last two years to 51 years old.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-could-lose-seat-14311251
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Raees said:
It is fascism through the backdoor. I completely agree with him that racism is growing everywhere, we see it in football at the moment.. it is becoming more and more acceptable. Like I said, if Boris Johnson can openly call muslim women letterboxes... how on earth is that not indicative of a racist undertone becoming more and more acceptable in the elite spectrum of politics?
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Fascism is a one party state, a actual dictatorship. And Nazism unlike other forms of fascism is a death cult. People need a rethink if they think Britain is on the brink of a far right death cult dictatorship.
 
UK is never going to leave the EU.

The whole thing is a farce. In the past 2 years, all politicians are just playacting, and that includes May.

If May had any real intention to leave the EU, she would simply bring to the parliament two questions:

1. Are we going to ignore the referendum and remain in the EU? (With the understanding that "no" means certain brexit.)

And if less than 50% or PMs voted for yes:

2. Do you want this deal? (With the understanding that "no" means a no-deal hard brexit on March 29th.)

Nothing changes with the delays. The choices are the above and only the above. It doesn't matter if the delay is for 3 months, 6 months, or 6 years. The choices will remain the above and only the above. Sure, May's "deal" can change a little bit, but not much, and it is not that important anyway because it is not the final UK-EU agreement. And I assure you that all the politicians know quite well that those two are the only choices. So, my conclusion is that the whole thing is theater, a farce, to placate the brexiters. UK is never going to leave the EU.
 
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CA_vampire said:
UK is never going to leave the EU.

The whole thing is a farce. In the past 2 years, all politicians are just playacting, and that includes May.

If May had any real intention to leave the EU, she would simply bring to the parliament two questions:

1. Are we going to ignore the referendum and remain in the EU? (With the understanding that "no" means certain brexit.)

And if less than 50% or PMs voted for yes:

2. Do you want this deal? (With the understanding that "no" means a no-deal hard brexit on March 29th.)

Nothing changes with the delays. The choices are the above and only the above. It doesn't matter if the delay is for 3 months, 6 months, or 6 years. The choices will remain the above and only the above. Sure, May's "deal" can change a little bit, but not much, and it is not that important anyway because it is not the final UK-EU agreement. And I assure you that all the politicians know quite well that those two are the only choices. So, my conclusion is that the whole thing is theater, a farce, to placate the brexiters. UK is never going to leave the EU.
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Even Mays not as idiotic and reckless as you lot who think no deal was ever an option.

And yes changes can be to the political declaration and the idea is to make those binding so we ensure the least worst brexit.
 
Smores said:
Even Mays not as idiotic and reckless as you lot who think no deal was ever an option.

And yes changes can be to the political declaration and the idea is to make those binding so we ensure the least worst brexit.
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Actually I don't want UK to leave the EU, ever.

But you did not understand the post you are mentioning. The "no deal" brexit would simply be a way for May to make MPs vote for her deal, by leaving them no other option. Nobody has actually said what kind of "deal" will make the brexit possible, and in 6 months or 6 years nothing will change.

Three years ago, perhaps the politicians did not know what was going on. But now they all know very well what the options are. The have staffers, they have contacts, they have access to think-tank studies, they can find out much more than we can. And they have a lot of secret agreements that we don't know anything about. There will never be a brexit, I am willing to bet on this!
 
CA_vampire said:
Actually I don't want UK to leave the EU, ever.

But you did not understand the post you are mentioning. The "no deal" brexit would simply be a way for May to make MPs vote for her deal, by leaving them no other option. Nobody has actually said what kind of "deal" will make the brexit possible, and in 6 months or 6 years nothing will change.

Three years ago, perhaps the politicians did not know what was going on. But now they all know very well what the options are. The have staffers, they have contacts, they have access to think-tank studies, they can find out much more than we can. And they have a lot of secret agreements that we don't know anything about. There will never be a brexit, I am willing to bet on this!
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Keep up she already did her deal or no deal and repeated that for months. Parlaiment don't want either that's why the took control, it's not in her remit to limit the choice to those two options thankfully.

Understanding the options and getting through your preferred choice in a vote of many options are two different things, it's the latter blocking any direction. The next round of indicative votes will be transferable to a choice will emerge.
 
Smores said:
Keep up she already did her deal or no deal and repeated that for months. Parlaiment don't want either that's why the took control, it's not in her remit to limit the choice to those two options thankfully.

Understanding the options and getting through your preferred choice in a vote of many options are two different things, it's the latter blocking any direction. The next round of indicative votes will be transferable to a choice will emerge.
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One of the problems with this is that whatever choice is made it has to have a majority and even more important it has to be feasible and acceptable.
Parliament are no nearer an accord nearly three years after the referendum.

Have zero idea why anyone thinks no deal is off the table.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
One of the problems with this is that whatever choice is made it has to have a majority and even more important it has to be feasible and acceptable.
Parliament are no nearer an accord nearly three years after the referendum.

Have zero idea why anyone thinks no deal is off the table.
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Well yeah May can go away and follow the preferred option of parliament but the WA will need a majority at some point. Considering that preferred option will be one including Labour votes them with the government behind it then it'll pass easily.

The blocker and why its about to kick off is May might not be in power long enough to do it. I predict we'll all be hoping May remains in charge in a couple of week
 
Smores said:
Well yeah May can go away and follow the preferred option of parliament but the WA will need a majority at some point. Considering that preferred option will be one including Labour votes them with the government behind it then it'll pass easily.

The blocker and why its about to kick off is May might not be in power long enough to do it. I predict we'll all be hoping May remains in charge in a couple of week
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This works if May moves enough to Corbyn's ideas to reach official agreement between the two. The problem there is that Labour would then claim they were the party that sorted out Brexit, and that is something May will not want to happen.

I would say it's equally likely May will stay essentially with her own deal until the last minute and hope enough Labour MPs break ranks to vote for it as the alternative to crashing out. The risk there is that there won't be of course, and then no deal it will be, as Paul says.
 
711 said:
This works if May moves enough to Corbyn's ideas to reach official agreement between the two. The problem there is that Labour would then claim they were the party that sorted out Brexit, and that is something May will not want to happen.

I would say it's equally likely May will stay essentially with her own deal until the last minute and hope enough Labour MPs break ranks to vote for it as the alternative to crashing out. The risk there is that there won't be of course, and then no deal it will be, as Paul says.
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They'll spin it to their advantage as usual. The options next time round will come from the government and reaching any agreement will be a victory for her.

Labour will be the ones eating away at brexit while May is the adult making parlaiment choose a way forward rather than just saying no. Her perfect victory is long gone so she'll take it i reckon
 
Smores said:
Well yeah May can go away and follow the preferred option of parliament but the WA will need a majority at some point. Considering that preferred option will be one including Labour votes them with the government behind it then it'll pass easily.

The blocker and why its about to kick off is May might not be in power long enough to do it. I predict we'll all be hoping May remains in charge in a couple of week
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Enough Tories and Labour will have to agree to get the WA through, will they do so and what are they going to agree to. May will keep going as long as she possibly can.
The only rumour is some sort of customs union which solves little.
The only plan seems to be to kick the can down the road as long as possible but at some point the road ends.
 
Smores said:
They'll spin it to their advantage as usual. The options next time round will come from the government and reaching any agreement will be a victory for her.

Labour will be the ones eating away at brexit while May is the adult making parlaiment choose a way forward rather than just saying no. Her perfect victory is long gone so she'll take it i reckon
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Yes that's possible, although I'm still giving it 50/50 she has no intention of making a formal agreement with Labour with all, and she's just spinning out delays until Her Deal Vote 3, or is it 4, I'm losing track? But as you said earlier, I wonder how long she'll still be leader now, because if she goes everything changes again.
 
Theresa May's lament; (to the tune of "Three wheels on my Wagon)

"My three meaningful votes have fallen at the despatch box;
but the fourths still rolling along;
The ERG, Nigel Farage and Jeremy,
are after me, but I'm still rolling along...."

Mrs May, hands trembling, hair all over the place, charging the EU windmills in Don Quixote style. I can see it now Brexit, The Musical... Sir Tim and Sir Andrew back in harness, they bound to have another "Don't Cry for me Argentina" world wide hit!

All May has to do is revoke A50!
 
Can’t really see any benefit to Labour of agreeing a compromise right now. As things stand the Tories are set to be stomped in the EU elections and local elections. Why give them a win before then?
 


Can't have a second vote though because... something something will of the people.
 
Mogget said:


Can't have a second vote though because... something something will of the people.
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Also can’t open any criminal investigations into Banks because it’s too politically sensitive.
 
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devilish said:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...age-labour-conservatives-latest-a8874361.html

Hopefully that is an eye opener for all those EU bureaucrats who want to give the UK a 3rd-4th-5th chance. If that does happen then I hope that Tusk will have the decency to resign.
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We know the country is split. This poll shows a slight overall lead for Remain/2nd Ref parties but Farage largely monopolising the hard leave vote due to his recognition factor and being an utterly shameless cnut.
 
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