Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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An MP who could have taken an easy route like the others but is trying to stand for the betterment of his constituents however ends up with this. This will be a loss to the Tories in the end.
I've always been a strong leaver, but I think it's time to settle this once and for all with another vote. We should be out of the EU this morning, but parliament hates democracy.
This time the vote should be Remain or Leave (with no deal), but this time the government must honor the result. Personally I think it's still 50/50 and could go either way.
What's the point pursuing a deal that leavers and remainers don't really want. It should be a "winner takes all vote", not a "peoples vote", we already had that.
This time the vote should be Remain or Leave (with no deal), but this time the government must honor the result. Personally I think it's still 50/50 and could go either way.
What's the point pursuing a deal that leavers and remainers don't really want. It should be a "winner takes all vote", not a "peoples vote", we already had that.
I sadly live in the highest leave vote area in Wales. I’ve spoken to numerous people who voted leave, some just brief conversations. The absolute overwhelming majority say they didn’t know what they were voting for, they still don’t care if we stay or leave, they’re not bothered by the outcome, it’s getting on their nerves.
Hardly any of these people have ever taken an interest in politics, never voted in a general election but got caught full up on the £350 nhs bus and the ‘excitement and drama’ the tv debates caused at the time.
If article50 was revoked most of these people wouldn’t bat an eyelid and just get on with their everyday lives, some would probably vote remain, some probably wouldn’t even bother voting again, they’re bored of it now.
I think It all goes to show the numbers we would see voting either way in another vote could be drastically different and people deserve the right to vote again.
Hardly any of these people have ever taken an interest in politics, never voted in a general election but got caught full up on the £350 nhs bus and the ‘excitement and drama’ the tv debates caused at the time.
If article50 was revoked most of these people wouldn’t bat an eyelid and just get on with their everyday lives, some would probably vote remain, some probably wouldn’t even bother voting again, they’re bored of it now.
I think It all goes to show the numbers we would see voting either way in another vote could be drastically different and people deserve the right to vote again.
You think No Deal is "winner takes all"? How bizarre.
People complain that a lot of people should have voted but I think a lot of people shouldn't have voted.
Parliament hates democracy? It was agreed MPs would have a say on the final agreement. What about the Vote Leave campaign who broke election spending rules?
The official Vote Leave campaign said there would be a deal before they left, no deal was not mentioned so for those banging on about that’s what people voted for is bollocks.
Couldn’t agree more, I don’t know how the public could be giving such a vote with absolutely no knowledge about it in the first place.
Really, most people I’ve spoke to have no idea of the ins and outs of politics and agreements and deals etc (I don’t either) so throwing a tv debate (of liars) in between Corrie and big brother was only going to end one way.
It was fun and a talking point for some at the time, they’ve now forgotten about it all but the mess is still here in full flow.
Did they?
The ballot paper said leave or stay. It’s march 30th and we are still in the EU.
Here's the portion of their website detailing what would happen should we vote to leave - make of it what you will.
Highlights:
Ah yes, because it’s so easy as a binary choice
.Vote Leave said
- “Taking back control is a careful change, not a sudden stop – we will negotiate the terms of a new deal before we start any legal process to leave.”
Fair enough. I didn’t even know about half of these leave campaigns
That’s the problem with a number of voters and the media has been shite at comunicating these lies and holding people to account.
It’s insainity that what it is. I’m all for her going but it really needs somebody who voted to leave and believes in the brexit that was voted for, rather then having another remainer with another shitty remainer version of it.
Why don't the Daily Mail, Express, etc. tell the MPs what to do?
They were the experts 3 years ago, weren't they.
They were the experts 3 years ago, weren't they.
Yeah the media is a disgrace but it’s not really a lie is it? Whoever was running that campaign wanted those things. I know it’s an official campaign but it would be daft to take is as gospel. They had no history or reference points to judge them.
Which was so clearly defined at the time and has only been clarified more over the last three years
Sure, but it demonstrates that the intention of the official leave campaign was a pan-european free trade treaty and puts the lie to the notion of "no deal" as being people's expected outcome should they vote to leave.
wtf, she can have as many goes as she likes but we can't have a 2nd go?
Exactly.They like to tell remainers that if we have a referendum and the result does not come out as we like , will we keep going until it does. This sounds exactly what May is doing.
I understand that but I think it’s daft to point to that campaign and point score from it. The whole thing was a shambles and ‘vote leave official’ speaks for very few people in my opinion. Doubt 95% of people even remember what it was
I agree the whole thing was a shambles - remain included. It's not scoring points as much as it is demonstrating that leave quite clearly means different things to different people. Statements like "the leave that people voted for" can't in reality mean all that much when the various interpretations of what leave means are themselves all over the place.
The Vote Leave campaign doesn't matter that much in and of itself but their suggestion that there would be a deal is reflective of the wider debate at the time. A No Deal Brexit was not being out forward by those arguing for Brexit. In fact the possibility of a No Deal was actively downplayed as it would have been perceived as an obviously negative outcome.
Yet we now see some Leavers suggesting that those who voted for Brexit actually voted with a No Deal in mind. Either they're lying, or they've forgotten the actual referendum campaign or they were too ignorant to understand what a deal meant at the time.
Yet we now see some Leavers suggesting that those who voted for Brexit actually voted with a No Deal in mind. Either they're lying, or they've forgotten the actual referendum campaign or they were too ignorant to understand what a deal meant at the time.
Yes I agree with all that. To quote T May I just think leave should actually mean leave. Rather than you didn’t know what you voted for so we’ll ignore you, as many people seem to be suggesting
Which outcome of all? They are 3 different ones listed there.
If there is a GE lets hope that one party gets an overall majority.
The ballot paper didn't say when we'd leave.
I hate parliament as much as the next guy but I want to defend them a bit.
The referendum itself was flawed. You can't ask a binary question on an issue that is this technical with many possible outcomes. The referendum did not give a majority for anything. There are different types of brexit and we are surprised parliament can't come to an agreement on what type. Just look at the internet, just look at programmes like QT, even the public doesn' t have a consensus on what it wants. We have parliament a square peg and a round hole and asked them to sort it out. We shouldn't be surprised they can't.
This shit is on everyone.
The referendum itself was flawed. You can't ask a binary question on an issue that is this technical with many possible outcomes. The referendum did not give a majority for anything. There are different types of brexit and we are surprised parliament can't come to an agreement on what type. Just look at the internet, just look at programmes like QT, even the public doesn' t have a consensus on what it wants. We have parliament a square peg and a round hole and asked them to sort it out. We shouldn't be surprised they can't.
This shit is on everyone.
I really don't think it solves anything. Although I would hope Labour wins.
Let’s not, it’d be hard Brexit or spend more time chasing unicorns
I remember a lot of talk about going to WTO, taking a 5-10 year hit would be worth it to get out of the EU for good from brexiteers.
If you boil down the options, leave meant no more FoM, the ability to do your own trade deals, not be subject to EU laws, no large payments to the EU, whether it's 200-240 million of the false 340 million. It also means a hard border for Ireland and NI.
All along leave meant leave unless the EU gave in to certain things. No-one voting leave thought FoM would still exist, no-one believed leaving the EU would mean you can't do your own trade deals, no-one believed leaving the EU would mean you're still subjected to EU laws, no-one voting leave thought they'd still be paying the EU 200 million a week.
Leave has always meant leave and relies on the EU to make special arrangements which aren't forthcoming and unlikely, they have 27 nations and the EU organization to protect. The EU also have a trump card in the Irish border. Who wants to officially be responsible putting in a hard border? English people voted not really caring or considering it.
A Norway type deal means accepting FoM and paying 95% of the fee. Leave voters weren't voting with this in mind.
I don't think people in general and politicians expected the EU to play such a hardball game and I don't people and politicians a like knew how intertwined the EU is set up to be, the Labour manifesto shows this. UK is faced with no deal, take a hit and sort it out over time, or remain a full member. There's no point in compromising, you might as well stay a full member.
It's not surprising how it's come down to this as I said from the get go I can only see leave meaning fully leave ultimately as I knew how it's setup and they're unlikely to treat the UK differently. They might do afterwards, who knows in a few years if UK does fully leave.
I think UK should remain a full member by the way. I'm not for leaving at all.
If you boil down the options, leave meant no more FoM, the ability to do your own trade deals, not be subject to EU laws, no large payments to the EU, whether it's 200-240 million of the false 340 million. It also means a hard border for Ireland and NI.
All along leave meant leave unless the EU gave in to certain things. No-one voting leave thought FoM would still exist, no-one believed leaving the EU would mean you can't do your own trade deals, no-one believed leaving the EU would mean you're still subjected to EU laws, no-one voting leave thought they'd still be paying the EU 200 million a week.
Leave has always meant leave and relies on the EU to make special arrangements which aren't forthcoming and unlikely, they have 27 nations and the EU organization to protect. The EU also have a trump card in the Irish border. Who wants to officially be responsible putting in a hard border? English people voted not really caring or considering it.
A Norway type deal means accepting FoM and paying 95% of the fee. Leave voters weren't voting with this in mind.
I don't think people in general and politicians expected the EU to play such a hardball game and I don't people and politicians a like knew how intertwined the EU is set up to be, the Labour manifesto shows this. UK is faced with no deal, take a hit and sort it out over time, or remain a full member. There's no point in compromising, you might as well stay a full member.
It's not surprising how it's come down to this as I said from the get go I can only see leave meaning fully leave ultimately as I knew how it's setup and they're unlikely to treat the UK differently. They might do afterwards, who knows in a few years if UK does fully leave.
I think UK should remain a full member by the way. I'm not for leaving at all.
You must be happy with the tory dup set up then.
All 3.
Customs Union solves nothing at all other than having the same external tariffs and the UK can't do their own trade deals but there would still need to be a border becuase of different standards and diffferent legislation/jurisdiction plus no freedom of movement.
GE or People Vote only solves it if the outcome is a remain government who cancels Brexit otherwise back to square one.
Yes but Labour isn't proposing that although Corbyn's trying to pretend it sounds like that. In a customs union you cannot do your own deals and having the same rules, standards , single market etc you have to have the four freedoms.
And I'm pretty sure the Brexieters don't want any of this.
Incorrect.
What do you expect to happen if one of the parties had a majority?
If Tories won ....
If Labour won....